Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 11 Jul 2009 13:18 from: BruceNordstrand
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Hi all I finally sat down with Templot long enough to try the software "in anger" which resulted in the attached plan. I have to revert to my older plan again due to my lovely wife taking up duathlon racing requiring part of my garage to become a racing bike storage and maintenance area. I have no idea if I did this correctly but it turned out pretty much like I wanted it, that is to print full size and build my turnouts in place without the need to standard templates. A couple of the turnouts have slight curves and others are "inbetween" sizes (ie not #5, #6 etc) - BTW, I model US track hence the numbers. Attached to this message is an image of the plan in Templot. The 2% that I am not happy with is the two turnouts in the lower left corner at the end of the coke ovens. These 2 are somewhat intertwined with the LH turnout to the outer ovens embedded deeply into the RH turnout to the through track. Effectively, the point blades of the LH are (should be) pretty much right up near the frog points of the RH. I, unfortunately, have not been able to work out how to do that in Templot to such a level that I could comfortably build the 2 as a single unit in situ. It is here I am hoping that someone could help out and either knock it up quickly for me or show me how it is done. The rest of the plan is also open to critique by those more knowledgable and proficient with Templot, especially in the area of curves and trasnsitions. I pretty much constructed the plan by getting the dimensions and radii from Autocad and creating curves with the required radius, then tying them together with straights and transitions. This took me about 3 days to get to this point.... I will attach the box file and the zipped bgs/bmp file for anyone interested in perusing it, as ever hopeful as I am  Rip 'er to shreds guys, I need to learn.... Cheers Bruce |
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| Attachment: attach_586_897_Picture_6.png 496 | |||
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posted: 11 Jul 2009 13:19 from: BruceNordstrand
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Attached the box/bgs file..... |
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| Attachment: attach_587_897_STONEGA.zip 257 | |||
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posted: 11 Jul 2009 13:22 from: BruceNordstrand
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Attached the bmp background file (zipped). Zip is 640Kb expanding to 77Mb 600dpi bitmap. |
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| Attachment: attach_588_897_stonega-garage-600dpi.zip 278 | |||
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posted: 11 Jul 2009 15:45 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Bruce Just had a quick go. This may not be the expert way of doing it, but I think gets towards what you want. For the RH turnout, stick the peg on MXP then stick the notch on it, then Store & Background. For the LH turnout, stick the peg on IGTP then do a Move Peg onto Notch. For even greater overlap, use MCP instead of MXP. I suspect there is a better way involving sliding the LH turnout onto the RH one ??? cheers Nigel |
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posted: 11 Jul 2009 18:00 from: Martin Wynne
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BruceNordstrand wrote: The 2% that I am not happy with is the two turnouts in the lower left corner at the end of the coke ovens. These 2 are somewhat intertwined with the LH turnout to the outer ovens embedded deeply into the RH turnout to the through track. Effectively, the point blades of the LH are (should be) pretty much right up near the frog points of the RH.Hi Bruce, Do you have a drawing or photo of such an arrangement? As far as I know it's impossible to have the point tips of a switch in line with the nose of a vee. There would be no way to arrange the wing rail, and the wheels would be unsupported.  Perhaps you mean that this should be a 3-way tandem turnout? As it is, you already have the point tips behind the ends of the check rails. This is also not possible as the points will not be able to open far enough. Also, these two turnouts have a very unlikely combination of 16ft-6in switches with a 1:4.25 crossing angle. This results in a longer turnout than necessary and a smaller radius. It would be very much more likely that such turnouts would have 11ft-0in switches. You already have a stored template with that size of switch, so it's easy to use it instead. I have made a bit of Jing video showing what I mean. I first changed the switch to 11ft-0in, then blanked off the switch front, then I snaked the point tips clear of the check rails. Then you can make a new branch track and link it in to the existing tracks. Here's the video: http://screencast.com/t/2J5DzIzv regards, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 01:50 from: BruceNordstrand
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Nigel Brown wrote: BruceHi Nigel Thanks for that... alot of acronyms I am not familiar with but I will go find out what they are and what they do Cheers Bruce |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 02:02 from: BruceNordstrand
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Martin Wynne wrote: BruceNordstrand wrote:Hi MartinThe 2% that I am not happy with is the two turnouts in the lower left corner at the end of the coke ovens. These 2 are somewhat intertwined with the LH turnout to the outer ovens embedded deeply into the RH turnout to the through track. Effectively, the point blades of the LH are (should be) pretty much right up near the frog points of the RH.Hi Bruce, Yes they do actually do something similar in the coal fields (and timber RR's) of the old US railroads, I actually have a shot of one somewhere. Besides that, this is where I differ from alot of users of Templot - it's my RR in the middle of nowhere and that's what management did This railroad is high in the mountains and real estate is at a premium. Besides that, the company wanted to spend as little as possible for the most gain.....As for the point blades being so close to the frog tip, that is the problem I am trying to address. I do have such a beast already built, the first time round I used #5 turnout bases from Fastracks and hacked them up to get what I wanted. With this rebuild I am after more flowing track and not being limited by stock standard turnout sizes. Your info on the switch point length is something I did not consider or know I could change. Now I do know of it I can see it suiting my purpose very well and will watch your jing video to see how it is done (thanks for that BTW). And another BTW, I had no idea I already had a turnout stored with the needed configuration, I'll go look. When I placed turnouts I simply did the "insert in plain track" method and went with what appeared, adjusting the size as needed. I know alot of your users will cringe at that statement but I plainly require alot more experience with Templot, this plan is actually the most time I have spent with the product in all the years I have owned it. Thanks again, off to view the video... Cheers Bruce |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 02:06 from: BruceNordstrand
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Martin, just watched the video - amazing simple when you know how Brilliant stuff. Will go try that now..... Cheers Bruce |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 02:56 from: Martin Wynne
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BruceNordstrand wrote:a lot of acronyms I am not familiar with but I will go find out what they are and what they doHi Bruce, For a list, see: http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_geometry.htm#peg_positions As for the point blades being so close to the frog tip, that is the problem I am trying to address. I do have such a beast already built, the first time round I used #5 turnout bases from Fastracks and hacked them up to get what I wanted. Any chance of a picture? It's quite difficult to visualize what you are trying to do. Do you have some pictures or drawings of your prototype track with the point tips adjacent to the frog vee? regards, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 03:31 from: BruceNordstrand
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Martin Wynne wrote: BruceNordstrand wrote:Thanks again Martin, will check out the link and add to my knowledge of Templot...a lot of acronyms I am not familiar with but I will go find out what they are and what they doHi Bruce, Here is a link to my old construction thread on railroad-line.com forums, page 7. Down towards the bottom is some bad shots of the turnout built and elsewhere in the same thread are the turnout bases prior to staining that show how I integrated the two. http://railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15816&whichpage=7 I don't have a scanner at the moment but will try to find an online shot of a lapped turnout in real life. Cheers Bruce |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 03:50 from: BruceNordstrand
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Martin I managed to find something similar on Google books, these are commonly called lap turnouts. The one pictured is slightly different in as much as the switch points are deep into the containing turnout. Like I have said previously, I have seen similar turnouts to mine in backwoods US railroads, I just have to find the pics Cheers Bruce |
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| Last edited on 12 Jul 2009 03:53 by BruceNordstrand |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 03:51 from: BruceNordstrand
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Whoops, double post - Martin, please delete when you have a spare moment. |
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| Last edited on 12 Jul 2009 03:52 by BruceNordstrand |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 09:23 from: Martin Wynne
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BruceNordstrand wroteI managed to find something similar on Google books, these are commonly called lap turnouts.Hi Bruce, 2_120341_100000000.jpg  A "lap" turnout is the American term for what is known in the UK as a tandem turnout. They are quite common here, although now less so than in steam days. There is a video showing how to create one in Templot. Download it from: http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/3_way_tandem.exe There is a detailed guide to what is happening in that video in this message: message 4150 and the full topic is at: topic 707 If you go to the site search page and enter "tandem" you will find many other references to tandem turnouts here on Templot Club. Here is a direct link: Search - tandem turnouts . The two types of 3-way turnout described in your scan are called "3-throw" turnouts (with the two switches combined), and "tandem" turnouts (with the switches staggered as shown). 3-throw turnouts were used only to save space in yards, never in running lines. They were much used on the old Midland Railway, but not so much elsewhere. They are not used in modern track. But 3-way tandem turnouts were very common in bullhead track and are still used today. The term "lap" turnout is not used in the UK. Your picture of a model turnout with the switches built into the vee rail of the preceding turnout doesn't have a name as far as I know. It's the sort of thing you can build quite easily in a model to save space, as in the Jing video which I posted earlier. There is another one for example in this video, in order to match the underlying sketch: http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/starter/em_starter.html However, it would require special construction on the prototype and should be avoided if possible. If there is no space for two conventional turnouts, a tandem turnout is more likely. If you have a prototype picture of such a construction, I would be very interested to see it. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Jul 2009 14:50 from: BruceNordstrand
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Thanks for all that info Martin, as helpful as ever and very much appreciated. True lapped turnouts are currently beyond my Templot abilities at the moment so I will persevere with what I have. One thing I am doing right at this moment is converting all turnouts in the plan to 11' switch rails. It turns out that the "standard" for #4 - #6 turnouts is 11' and #7 - #10 are 16' 6". As the largest turnout I have is a #6 it made sense to do the change and the results reflect the nature of coal railroading better with tight, slow speed track around the tipple and ovens. I still haven't located a turnout in the style that generated all this, I have asked a friend of mine if infact I was dreaming and am awaiting a reply. I'll update when I have either further info or a picture (or both )Cheers Bruce |
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