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... at 1:20, seemingly without a twist in it. There's something to be said for Peco set track! posted: 9 Mar 2016 20:28 from: Martin Wynne Hi Derek, hmm. I have an REA bullhead drawing which states 'knuckle gap to be 2" for K-crossings 1:6.5 to 1:8 inclusive. All other angles, knuckle gap as for V-crossings'. Where the knuckle gap is wider than the standard flangeway (1.75"), there must of course be a radiused bend (in one or both rails), but I don't have any details of the radii. They could of course be calculated from the specified gap, but it's time for me to cook a meal -- over to you. V-crossing knuckle gaps are given in the table on this page: http://templot.com/martweb/templot_forum.htm although some of them appear to have been muddled up in a misprint. Yes it is called a wing rail. regards, Martin. posted: 9 Mar 2016 ...
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... fine, and far and away the easiest type to make (assuming you have a lathe, of course). The trick is not to have them too large in diameter, so that they fit between two adjacent rail fixings without getting in the way. A roller gauge turned from 6mm or 8mm bar is plenty large enough (1 /4" or 5/16" dia) in 4mm scale. For use with canted rail in chairs it's important not to make the gauge slots deeper than the rail head. The radiused corners on the rail head easily allow a few degrees of twist to accommodate the cant. For use with soldered construction on rivets or copper laminate, you don't have the chairs to hold the rail upright. So in that case it helps to make the slots the full depth of the rail so that the gauge also serves to hold the rail vertical. This means that a roller gauge for glued chaired construction is not so good for soldered construction, and vice versa. Ideally you need a gauge tool specific for each. ...
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... . Check by sliding the wing rail through the gauge tools up against the vee and seeing that it is properly flush against the side of the vee. Adjust the bend as necessary. Then slide the rail back just far enough to drop in the crossing-flangeway gauge strip without force but also without any freedom: 2_221146_430000000.png If you do both wing rails this way, the knuckle bends should align. The templates show the knuckle bend as a sharp bend, but it doesn't need to be sharp. Many prototype designs have a radiused knuckle bend, with the result that the knuckle gap is wider than the crossing flangeway. If you replicate this it will be less noticeable if the bends do not exactly align. A radiused bend also helps a lot if you are using functional chairs with the rail canted at 1:20 angle. Some modellers go to the absurd length of filing a notch in the rail to make a dead sharp knuckle bend, which is totally unnecessary and looks awful. This is what it should look like: 2_202055_480000000.png© Mick Nicholson ...
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... the DXF version number in the exported file, to match the above "junk". At first sight the two files are very similar. Thanks again, Martin. posted: 6 Jan 2016 00:14 from: Martin Wynne Hi Andy, First signs that this might work. A couple of your chairs in Templot's background shapes: 2_051906_110000000.png Templot wouldn't import your DXF file. But it would after I opened it in my old copy of TurboCAD and saved it again. The first task would seem to be to get some radiused corners on these 2D chairs. There is already a dialog for some chair data -- it has been in Templot for about 15 years and never yet used, see real> chairs/ baseplates> chair/ baseplate data... Click the? info buttons for some notes about each dimension. regards, Martin. posted: 6 Jan 2016 01:20 from: Andrew Barrowman Hi Martin, For the sake of drawn appearance you might radius the corners, but for printing at this scale it's a waste of time ...
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... topic: 2964 I wish it would.... allow Wing Rails to have a knuckle bend radius posted: 14 Jan 2017 14:06 from: ChrisBr As I understand it (early) GWR Wing Rails were radiused according to the angle of the crossing as the became the check rail for the crossing nose. It would be nice (assuming I have not missed the capability in the system- I did look first) to be able to select this as an option under "Real, V-Crossing Options" when modelling these examples and for the printout to reflect this option. Regards, Chris posted: 14 Jan 2017 14:55 from: Martin Wynne ChrisBr wrote: As I understand it (early) GWR Wing Rails were radiused according to the angle of the crossing Hi Chris, Not only GWR -- all* knuckle bends are radiused, with the result that the knuckle gap is wider than the flangeway gap. See the "knuckle gap" figures in the table of crossing data at: http://templot.com ...
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... Wagon wheels are usually 5" wide, which scales to 1.67mm, so only just wide enough to span the gap. In fact not quite wide enough if you allow for the corner radius on the rail and a chamfer between the face of the wheel and the tread. If you use exact scale wheels you need to make sure not to exceed the specified flangeway gap just in front of the nose of the vee. Here's some stuff I have posted on RMweb a few times:____ The knuckles should be radiused, the knuckle gap being wider than the crossing flangeway gap. Here's a diagram which may help when setting the wing rail knuckles: 2_220535_490000000.png The blue infill shows the theoretical ideal with a sharp bend at K exactly matching the angle of the vee and in line with it. In practice on the prototype it is not possible to make such a sharp bend because of the 1:20 inclination of the rails. Instead, a short curve is used, as shown by the green line, making the knuckle gap wider than ...
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... you! Best wishes Richard PS. Do any of you know whether C+ L Pete is OK? It says on the website he was taken ill at a show? He has also sent me several very helpful e-mails recently. posted: 27 Nov 2015 22:22 from: Martin Wynne Jubilee42 wrote: The problem is here: 3033_271615_020000000.jpg Hi Richard, Here's some stuff which I have posted before. It looks that your knuckle bend is a bit too sharp (red line below): The knuckles should be radiused, the knuckle gap being wider than the crossing flangeway gap. Here's a diagram which may help when setting the wing rail knuckles: 2_220535_490000000.png The blue infill shows the theoretical ideal with a sharp bend at K exactly matching the angle of the vee and in line with it. In practice on the prototype it is not possible to make such a sharp bend because of the 1:20 inclination of the rails. Instead, a short curve is used, as shown by the green line, making the knuckle gap wider than ...
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... 2.30mm and the wheel is effectively 1.95mm, a difference of 0.35mm. The combination of chamfer and radius reduces that a bit, let's say 0.3mm. So at 1:7 the wheel drop is in effect over 7 x 0.3= 2.1mm. For a wagon wheel at 6mm radius that means a drop of 0.09mm. Adding half of the low nose increases that to 0.14mm or 5 thou. Not much, but enough to be noticeable in bumpy running. The effect is made worse because the combination of chamfer on the wheel and radiused corner on the rail cause the wheel to wedge itself into the space, and need to be dragged out by the couplings, creating much more of a bump than the drop alone. But on longer crossings the effect increases significantly. Suppose you have a long curved crossover needing 1:12 crossings to stay within your radius limit. The wheel drop is then in effect over 12 x 0.3= 3.6mm, and the drop is more than doubled to 0.33mm or 13 thou. With greater wedging effect between the rails. That's ...
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... chair casting with keys for the "A" timber. The bolted slab& bracket designs were introduced after the grouping, but the earlier designs would have lasted well into the 1950s in places, and there may still be a few around. Here's a couple of slab& bracket pictures: 1. GWR design, plain bracket castings, the slab has square corners and an angled section for the holding-down bolt through a pojection on the vee point rail: 2_121258_410000000.jpg 2. BR design, ribbed brackets, rectangular slab with radiused corners, no holding-down bolt, extra nose spacer blocks instead: 2_202055_480000000.png In both pics you can see the spacer blocks between the wing rails, but they don't fill the entire space. A fully filled space looks worse in models because of the wider flangeway gaps. Of course, the white pre-production pics make it look even worse. cheers, Martin. posted: 30 Nov 2018 22:57 from: Rob Manchester Martin Wynne wrote: Some pre-production pictures: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/ ...
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... will become a multi-sided polygon. Instead, change the corner dimensions to fit within the overall size. Here you can see that the overall width and depth of the rectangle is 69.8 x 36.8 mm, so clearly corner dimensions of 93.9mm are not going to fit, with the result that it looks like an ellipse: 2_120756_080000000.png You probably want to change the corner size to say 10mm or less. The width and depth of the corners can be set separately, although normally they would both be set the same for a radiused corner. I will look again at how the default sizes for the corners are set when first adding a rounded rectangle. Possibly they should be set as a% of the overall size, not in mm. I think you would find that if you added a much larger one it would look ok. I will write a bit more about editing the outlines of sketchboard items later, but that is definitely not what you want to do here. Thanks for posting the sketchboard file. regards, Martin. posted: 12 ...
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... the head depth of the rail has been worn down -- the stepped fishplate brings it back up level with the unworn rail. 2_241603_300000000.jpg It's unusual to see this within pointwork. It means the bridge chair supporting the worn rail needs a thicker base than the near one, as they are both on the same timber. Special chairs were made with thicker than the standard 1.3/4" base thickness for this type of situation. 2_250126_200000000.jpg It may possibly be 85lb rail on the left, rather than worn 95lb rail. The radiused top corner on the rail does suggest original rail rather than worn. The fishplate is clearly marked for 95R BH WORN/ NEW. BS-85R 85lb bullhead rail was originally intended for branch lines, sidings and yards, etc., but in practice very little was used. In most cases the rail used in such situations was worn rail cascaded down from main-line use. The difference in overall rail height was 1/4". BS-95R 95lb/yd rail height= 5.23/32nds (5.719 ...
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... a lot of useful background information in the book for bullhead track generally. Here are some of pictures of a BR(W) switch and crossing: gwr1.jpg gwr2.jpg gwr3.jpg gwr4.jpg gwr5.jpg These pictures show the joggled switch detail. The new product from C&L is I believe the "slab and bracket" design of A chair (under the V-crossing nose) in the bottom picture. Interesting points to note are the characteristic semi-circular inside ends on the slide chairs and check rail chairs (in contrast to the radiused square corners on the other chairs). Chair drawings showing these details are on page 98 of the above book. Notice also that the check rails are one timber position out compared to the standard drawings -- the final check chair is normally in line with the end of the wing rail (diagram on page 36 of the book). regards, Martin. posted: 8 Aug 2007 16:16 from: Paul Boyd Hi Martin I cut and pasted the title from the GW Study Group website I spotted your subtle ...
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13. Help!
... I realise it will probably be a two loco shunting affair (blue diesels, I'm afraid) I'm not really happy with the actual track plan, but it's stuck in my head if you see what I mean and when I try to doddle something else I end up back at square one. I wonder if some kind soul would be able to modify/design something better? A simple drawing would do, I'm quite happy to knock it up in Templot. I would have liked to curve it, but I think the radiuses on the points might get a little tight (A6 min!), and in my mind's eye I can't see how the retaining wall would work in that situation. The locos would be either an 08, class 20 or class 25, so not very long, and the wagons a motley collection of unfitted, vacuum fitted, and the smaller air-braked stock. The more complex the pointwork the better! Help Richard. Attachment: attach_122_ShelfLayout.png 135 posted: 30 Oct 2007 08:29 from: John Lewis richard_t ...
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... need for the flange lubricators often seen on such curves. Generally model curves are much sharper than the prototype, so likewise any coning of the wheels has no effect -- it is the wheel flanges which guide wheels round curves. On straighter track, variations in model axle alignments, variations in rail height, and tolerances on wheel diameter mean that any steering effect from model coning is effectively destroyed. It is easily demonstrated -- turn the flanges off some coned wheels, and try running trains. The rail head has a radiused top, so with or without coning, the wheel makes only a point contact with the inclined rail head until some rail wear has occurred. That is generally a slow process on models, usually resulting more from track cleaning than running trains. In practice the lack of working coning is a good thing. With no differential between the opposite wheels on a fixed axle, it means that one or other wheel is always slipping slightly instead of pure rolling. Which helps to keep wheels and rails clean. If our wheels only ...
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... Thanks, Brian McKenzie posted: 21 Aug 2014 12:26 from: Matt M. Brian, if New Zealand is like Australia, with the railways built on the cheap by successive governments, then a radius of 8 chains is a fairly common occurrence on supposedly main lines. That was also the minimum radius for all main line equipment. They had a test loop at Clyde Wagon Works to check compliance. In 7mm 8 chains is 3696mm or slightly over 12 foot. So realistically there isn't a standard as such for smaller radiuses. But as I understand it a set wheel profile and back to back is necessary regardless of what standard you settle on. I'm not sure who else you are worried about run stock over your layout. If you are starting from scratch to build a brand new set of standards no one is going to be able to operate on your layout unless they meet those requirements. There are only a few S7 modellers here. And only two others doing NSWGR. Only one lives close to me and thankfully does pre 1900. ...
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... 36 from: Hayfield Matt thanks for that,will try and follow it up John posted: 29 Sep 2013 18:05 from: Martin Wynne Hayfield wrote: What I am looking for is a gauge with a positive connection to the rails but allows for the 1-20 inclination. I have a contact who is willing to turn me a set and I am looking for any advice that is available Hi John, The deeper slot face on the inside in your sketch serves no purpose. The head of bullhead rail is radiused on the corners and will easily turn through the small angle of 3 degrees within a standard roller gauge slot: 2_291255_350000000.png It is only necessary not to make the slot so deep that it engages the rail foot. A slot depth of 1.0mm is about right* for 4mm scale. The chairs hold the rail upright (at 3 degrees, 1:20), so when using functional chairs there is no need for the gauge tool to hold the rail, it is used solely for gauging. *for gauging between the ...
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... in the wing rails don't appear to have a radius. Hi Andrew The final bend is shown as 18in radius? Regards Mike Hi Mike, Agreed, but I was referring to the bend in the wing rails at the knuckle on the 2C9 chair. I understand that it's common for the rails to be bent to some radius at that position, but on your example it looks like they have a sharp bend. I just thought it was interesting Cheers! Andrew Apologies Andrew I misunderstood what you said, yes sharp bend not radiused Regards Mike posted: 24 Mar 2016 08:55 from: Jim Guthrie John, Many thanks for these- particularly for the shot of tne switch and the stretcher rods/tiebars. I'm at the point of designing these for my 1:32 pointwork and was looking for some detail of Scottish practice. Martin provided details of Midland practice a while ago and your pictures show that Scottish practice was similar.. Jim. posted: 25 Mar 2016 04:27 from: Andrew Barrowman Another interesting detail is that there don't ...
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... '. I also came across a rather strange problem. Having inserted a turnout into one of the triple terminus tracks, 413, I clicked on 'tools> make simple crossover'. Instead of making a simple crossover, it always tried to make a ladder crossover with rather odd timbering as below. This happens on all of the three tracks 413, 458 and 450 but nowhere else on the plan. By the way, what is the difference between 'invert handing' and 'swap hand'? exit_timbered.jpg Cheers. Brian Attachment: attach_139_228_arnewood.box 340 posted: 19 Nov 2007 02:19 from: Jim Guthrie While looking through my copies of the RM, I came across this in August, 1963- this was the plan I was thinking of, and I can see that CJF wasn't averse to plagiarising one of his own designs :-) CJF-TERM.JPG I might find the later design, but here are the words and music with the original. I'm sure CJF will waive copyright problems ;-) Jim. posted: 19 Nov 2007 02:57 ...
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... radius for K-crossings is that I haven't got round to it yet. It's not as simple as it looks because of course a K-crossing is composed of two separate templates. It's not so very long ago that I introduced the proper knuckle bends showing on the V-crossings. Previously, and right from the start of Templot, I assumed users knew enough about track to know what they were doing and use the templates as a construction guide, not an actual drawing of a turnout, and make a proper radiused knuckle. The sharp bend mark was intended as an aid to locating the centre of the knuckle bend. In any event, it's not physically possible to make a bend in the rail as sharp as shown. When I next see a knuckle with one of those awful nicks filed in the rail, it will be the required kick up the bum to get something done about it. It's been on the list for a long time. However, there is so much still to do to get 227a finished that I doubt ...
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