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... Vale as a basis for a plan, so it does not need to be perfect or follow it exactly, removing this slip would be an easy solution. regards Attachment: attach_2606_3163_1920-ebbwvale-lnwr-trimmed.png 203 posted: 30 Dec 2017 15:06 from: Martin Wynne Hi Philip, There is a 50" map dated 1960 on old- ... . By that date the slip had been removed, but the better-quality larger-scale map makes it possible to get more accurate rail alignments: 2_300950_260000000.png By making the turnout from the goods shed as short as possible, it is just about possible to fit in a workable irregular single slip on the outer side of the curves: 2_300950_270000001.png I have ... idea whether the original was like this of course. With a bit more fiddling about it may just be possible to get a regular 1:6 slip to fit. The difficulty with the old-maps site is scaling the maps. I scaled this one by overlaying on the tiled OS 6" map (disregarding the difference in map projection between the ...
... I think you may have given me a possible solution by increasing the width of these timbers, and then moving both timbers in opposite directions plus some twist in opposite directions allowing the chairs to be fixed slightly off centre of the timbers, this may give me the clearance I need, hopefully without causing any bad language on gapping. As a matter of interest Phil, in your experience, what is the maximum timber width that has been used, bearing in mind that my layout is based on pre-grouping era (1921 LNWR& MR practices)? Also still on this subject, what would be the practical maximum length of timbers? I'm sure I have seen reference somewhere, to timbers being 28 foot length, but would hate to be the guy that handles them. Anyhow, many thanks again Phil for the information. All the best, Brian Nicholls. posted: 30 Aug 2011 20:38 from: Phil O Brian Nicholls wrote: As a matter of interest Phil, in your experience, what is the maximum timber width that has ...
... to appropriately suite the crossing angle at that point (angles in access of or less than, as the case may be). I think it fair for me to say, that this particularly occurs, when one uses F5 (or F9 as in the TDV) to change the crossing angle/length (length not locked) of a turnout, thereby crossing the boundaries of the crossing angle range (or limit) for any given Size value. I have also attached a PDF file which contains a table form list of LNWR Pt Way Crossings details of items (a ), (b.)& (c.) mentioned above, for all the various crossing angles that the LNWR apparently commonly used. Now if you compare my compiled PDF file table against the image tables Figures 2& 3, there are discrepancies at which points the changes in lengths occur. I have colour coded the PDF table columns to clearly show where these change points in crossing angle are. Question 3. Is there anyway I can change the crossing angle decision points ...
... turnout template (in the TDV). This shows the heel line mark as being between the S6& S7 timbers, where as the switch rail break line is shown between the S7& S8 timbers (this is the same as in your picture of the turnout in your reply above). Now I was under the impression, that the switch rail break was the heel point, except of course for flexible switches. The heel being at the switch rail break point, is shown on most, if not all, the LNWR Pt Way drawings I have on turnouts. Now what has happened in Templot about the heel marks, why the difference between the rail break and the mark line? Or am I missing something? Martin Wynne wrote: do> convert RAM to CLM The result shows the turnout radius is 2376.32mm. Dividing by 4mm/ft= 594.08 ft. Q2. In your reply you do a conversion from RAM to CLM to get the rail gauge face radius dimension, do I have to always do this and use CLM to view ...
... topic: 2649 LNWR Set yes or no? posted: 12 Mar 2015 13:35 from: Brassey Hello Martin You helped me a while ago in setting up the spec of Templot for LNWR timbering which I have now built the straight track with. Regarding turnouts, I have followed your postings about the importance of the "set" in the curved rail. I have the LNWR track drawings for 1909 and I can see no reference to a set though there are very detailed drawings of both straight cut and under-cut points. Am I therefore right in assuming that the LNWR may not have employed a set and used under-cuts instead where deemed necessary? Photos of LNWR track are hard to find but I have not seen any set in the few I looked at last night. I totally agree that the set would improve my running in P4 but I am just checking whether it would have been prototypical for my layout. Regards Peter posted: 12 Mar 2015 13:39 from: Martin Wynne Hi Peter, There is always a ...
... topic: 1544 Trap points for sidings posted: 19 Jun 2011 16:37 from: geoff Hi, Can anyone please shed light on LNWR practice? My question concerns trap-points in sidings, definitely not running lines. My question arises from preparing my trackwork for Rhyl. It seems that in some places the LNWR track lasted into the 60's. In the goods yard you can see LNWR 4-bolt pattern chairs and in one instance a wagon turntable lasted into the 1950's. My guess is to use a 12foot straight( loose-heel) switch. Grateful for any expert knowledge. Thanks, Geoff posted: 20 Jun 2011 15:38 from: Brian Nicholls undefined geoff wrote: Can anyone please shed light on LNWR practice? My question concerns trap-points in sidings, definitely not running lines. My question arises from preparing my trackwork for Rhyl. It seems that in some places the LNWR track lasted into the 60's. In the goods yard you can see LNWR 4-bolt pattern chairs and in one instance a wagon turntable ...
... topic: 2137 LNWR plain track in Templot posted: 11 Jan 2013 14:46 from: Martin Wynne On RMweb, Brassey, on 11 Jan 2013- 13:13, said: Martin, can Templot be configured to the LNWR sleeper spacings? Hi Peter, Yes -- assuming you know what they were for your prototype and period. My information for LNWR is as follows (from C. J. Allen, 1915): 60ft rails, 24 sleepers per length. Spacings to sleeper centres from rail end: 12" to first sleeper 1 space at 27.3/4" 21 spaces at 30.1/2" 1 space at 27.3/4" 12" to rail end. Total= 720"= 60ft. End sleepers 12" wide. All others 10" wide. All 9ft long. Heavier chairs than standard on the wider end sleepers. If you need more LNWR data, the LNWR Society should be able to help. Stuart Hince has written a tutorial on setting up custom rail lengths and sleeper spacings in Templot. ...
... topic: 2620 LNWR track drawings. posted: 31 Jan 2015 13:46 from: Trevor Walling Hello, I was doing a tidy up on one of my pc's and I came across this. I had forgotten all about it and I don't know where I got it. It was probably somewhere online quite a while ago. 2110_310840_390000000.jpg Attachment: attach_2054_2620_LNWR_track_drawin gs.jpeg 571 posted: 1 Feb 2015 00:34 from: Brian Nicholls Hi Trevor, I am sorry to point out, that those drawings are the copyright of the L&NWR Society. Two track books have been published which contain the drawings, which also includes the one you have posted. The books are one for the 1909 PW standards, and the other is for the 1916 PW standards. All the best, Brian posted: 1 Feb 2015 18:15 from: Nigel Brown Hi Brian If these are the original LNWR PW drawings from 1009 and 1916, surely the copyright would have elapsed by now? I don't claim to be a copyright expert, but that's my understanding. ...
9. Questions on the basic fundamentals on prototype (and scale model) turnout dimensions and design met
... . Many thanks again Martin Kindest regards, Brian Nicholls. posted: 21 Feb 2011 00:40 from: Brian Nicholls Hi Howard, Many thanks for your response. Regarding confidence in my plan, I have so far found it to be reasonably accurate, despite having to correct the scaling in Templot due to shrinkage of the plan being poorly stored over the years. To correct for the scaling, I measured using the Templot ruler against the scaling bar on the drawing background image. Also I had a copy of another original LNWR drawing for one of the stations overall roof trusses, which was something like 198 ft 6 in long, this being a known dimension I could also measure on the background image as verification for accurate scaling to 4mm to 1 foot. I take your point about pre-grouping track may be something very different from REA standard, but no matter which type of switch I use (old style or RAE) they won't line up to the image rail lines (here I must add, that there is not a mammoth out ...
... topic: 2441 Two New Permanent Way Books from the LNWR Society. posted: 11 Apr 2014 17:11 from: Brian Nicholls Hi All, I would just like to advise you, that the LNWR society are about to launch two permanent way track books. See cover images below. I am sure that such books have been long awaited by many a railway modeller. I am not quite sure of the pricing details yet, but will let you all know as soon as I am made aware of this. I have attached a PDF file which contains an edited version of the item which will appear in the next LNWRS news letter, this being a precise of the books contents. By the way, I have no financial interest in the two books, as all proceeds go to the LNWRS, just the privilege, pleasure and satisfaction of having the been able to accomplish producing useful documents. All the best. Brian Nicholls. 1853_111203_420000000.png 1853_111157_580000000.png Attachment: attach_1819_2441_LNWR_Archive_Repr oductions.pdf 392 posted: 12 Apr 2014 14:46 from: Brian Nicholls Hi All ...
11. Dud(ley) Plot?
... topic: 2466 Dud(ley) Plot? posted: 3 Jun 2014 18:20 from: Ariels Girdle Hi- I'm not quite a beginner, but am trying my first complex track plan. It is based on Dudley, a joint LNWR/GWR station, in BR days. Most of it I think I have bodged moderately well, but I am not confident about the geometry/feasibility of the slip, outside slip and 3-way interlaced turnout in particular. I have attached the file (I hope) which is based on the BR era OS Map. The only real change (accepting that OS Maps will not be 100% reliable) is to curve the track on the approach to the tunnel (RH side of the diagram) the opposite way to how it really was. I have not bothered sorting out the timbering at this stage, as getting the rails right seems to me to be the main priority for the moment. Apart from the map, I have taken into account information from a limited number of photos ...
... might add). Also if anyone has a photo showing such timbering of this type of formation, that would be very appreciated. At this time I am only interested in the crossovers situated in the four track roads at slightly the right of centre and towards the top of the box file, all other formations are not yet quite ready for finishing, but if anything in other areas is seen to glaringly wrong, I would appreciative your advice. As a point of interest, the proto track work was originally laid by the LNWR and would have followed their procedures. As you will see from the Box file, I have elected to put the tinbers at right angles to the main roads, I think at least that part is correct. Any and all input will be gratefully received. Many thanks in anticipation. Best regards, Brian Nicholls. Attachment: attach_977_1370_New_Street_Station _1921_GSNC-CR_492scale_AZ.box 212 posted: 15 Feb 2011 11:42 from: Phil O 38_150638_340000000.png Hi Brian I would go for the extended crossing timber option in this case as trying to fit long ...
13. Track Plan 01
... a bit tight for 7mm scale? You might be able to move the crossover a bit to the right to get the PRO58 turnout on to a larger radius on the curve, but that has knock-ons to other turnouts. I seem to be forever designing continuous layouts in small spaces where curved turnouts are the norm, and you start to get a sense for the pinch points which can occur. Jim. posted: 12 Jan 2014 08:48 from: Murryb Jim Thanks for the comment. I can only see LNWR 6 wheels 30ft coaches being the longest on the layout Might need to move everything around to the right ie along the single track. I increased the centre on the double out to 90mm in case longer coaches appear. Could shorten the Platform. Murry posted: 12 Jan 2014 10:12 from: Martin Wynne Hi Murry, Thanks for uploading your plan. It's looking good. The crossover on the left TR084/ TR107 is using D-7 turnouts. That's a rather unusual size combination, leading to an unnecessarily tight ...
... have been destroyed over the years in the name of progress Rob Hello, I would imagine that was the way people felt when the railways first started. Regards. posted: 22 Mar 2018 03:58 from: Martin Wynne Rob Manchester wrote: Keep the pictures coming bevere_bridge2_1200x800.jpg Bevere Island Bridge, Worcester This once fine bridge is now derelict and in need of restoration. It serves now only to provide livestock access to Bevere Island in the River Severn. It is thought to have been built by Richard Moon, chairman of the LNWR, who owned lands at Bevere*. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5713307 bevere_bridge1_1200x860.jpg http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5713305 *pronounced Bevvery Martin. posted: 22 Mar 2018 04:09 from: Martin Wynne Another bridge: svr_bridge_1200x800.jpg Farmland near Severn Lodge The Shropshire Way LDP and a high pressure oil pipeline cross the Severn Valley Railway under this bridge. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5713231 Martin. posted: 22 Mar 2018 16:49 from: Rob Manchester Martin, Rob posted: ...
... attached. Items on the sketchboard can be combined and then treated as a single item for positioning and rotation. Combined items can be further combined together to produce more complex graphics. So for a signalling diagram we could perhaps have a library of signal parts -- posts, long and short arms, brackets and gantries etc. Users could then build up each signal symbol on the sketchboard before combining them and placing them in position. There is really no limit to this -- a library of LBSCR ground signals or one of LNWR drain covers? For modellers of the modern scene we could have TPWS grids, concrete cable troughs, equipment cabinets, etc. Of course, it needs someone to draw all this stuff! regards, Martin. posted: 24 Sep 2010 13:01 from: Brian Nicholls Howard wrote: Why not make the steps a separate item? Then you can have them next to the large box, or straight out of the small box. Hi Howard, Can do! That's an excellent idea, I'll try it and post ...
... Crafted" to fit due to the historical evolvement of the station. Track layouts and formations at the station were very tight and confined. This was caused by the severe restrictions and limitations of the civil engineering, in particular, the exit/entrance tunnelling, when the station was first built and opened in 1854. Then when the Midland Railway came along a decade or two later, the same civil engineering restrictions still applied, so the MR had to make a very curved station, on their side, and join into the LNWR track-work at the London (Eastern) end of the station. They, the MR, did however, get a concession to make another tunnel at the Western end which had to be very close and next to the original LNWR tunnel. Also because of breakdowns in the early days MR insisted on joining into the LNWR tracks at the western end so that they, and the LNWR traffic could bypass areas of the station as and when required. In all, this made the track layout of the station very tight ...
... . So an ordinary chair fitted on an ordinary sleeper; but if the sleeper was not square to the track the chair might not sit fully on a sleeper, and would need a timber. Similarly special chairs at crossings, switches, etc were often too wide to sit on an ordinary sleeper. Like I said, we Scots are mean! Allan F posted: 24 Mar 2014 01:39 from: Brian Nicholls Hi Allan, Thanks for the input. I tend to base most of my statements with reference to the LNWR company, although the Midland was quite similar in approach. The LNWR appeared to use 9ft standard lengths from the very first, though I cannot say the same about the widths, as in the very early days, and pre LNWR, such as the L&BR, used up to 2ft wide timbers !!! Again you are quite right when you say the 12" timbers were needed to secure the chairs for turnouts etc, when the timber was angled. Also if you consider the "Bridge Chair", ...
... topic: 1172 Connecting Stretcher Bars for Double Slips posted: 19 Jul 2010 20:32 from: Ian Spalding I'm trying to find out how stretcher bars on double slips were connected to either a point lever or to point rodding. I have drawings of how the stretcher bars are connected to the switch rails. But were the stretchers at one end of the slip connected together and then to the point lever/ rodding or were they driven separately or what? Principally interested in pre-grouping LSWR and LNWR but any prototype information would be appreciated. Regards, Ian Spalding posted: 21 Jul 2010 16:37 from: Ian Spalding Ian Spalding wrote: I'm trying to find out how stretcher bars on double slips were connected to either a point lever or to point rodding. I have drawings of how the stretcher bars are connected to the switch rails. But were the stretchers at one end of the slip connected together and then to the point lever/ rodding or were they driven separately or what? Principally interested in pre-grouping LSWR and LNWR ...
19. 4 bolt chairs
... chair, and matching serrations adzed into the surface of the sleeper. The spike hole is smaller than the screw/trenail hole, and the spike usually has a domed head, so is much less prominent than a screw. Screws were used with tapered wooden ferrules of similar size to trenails. Here's a drawing of a GER ordinary chair having 4 such fixings: 2_280655_550000000.png The curved sides on many pre-group chairs are quite noticeable. Other companies using similar 4-fixing chairs were the Midland (trenails), and the LNWR (screws, chairs with straight sides), and several others. It was a popular pre-group design. edit: thanks to Dave for the LBSCR info. I can post scans of the Midland and LNWR chairs if you wish? cheers, Martin. posted: 28 May 2020 12:08 from: Ian Allen Hi, Pre-grouping use of 4 bolt chairs would have been: GCR, GNR, LYR, MR, plus others. However, they would not have had the same dimensions.Ian Last edited ...
... a member of the P-Way staff with over 30 years of experience also on the LM, I can confirm that we always said trap points when were talking of a set of points that kept stock in somewhere and talked of catch points when discussing a set of points designed to catch a run away. Regard less of the physical form of the points in question. This may be yet another example of where something is called one thing on one area and something else on another. Or of there being the right (LNWR/LMS/LMR) way, and the GWR way of doing things, Last edited on 17 Aug 2013 21:10 by DM posted: 17 Aug 2013 21:28 from: Martin Wynne DM wrote: This may be yet another example of where something is called one thing on one area and something else on another. Or of there being the right (LNWR/LMS/LMR) way, and the GWR way of doing things Hi David, I did say "generally". It's interesting to refer ...
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