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posted: 30 Dec 2012 00:28 from: Martin Wynne
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Some interesting track pics posted by Adrian on the Western Thunder forum: http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/bishops-stortford-loco-s7-competition.2200/#post-53778 http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/bishops-stortford-loco-s7-competition.2200/#post-53779 I'm not too sure if this formation has a name. The main part is essentially an outside slip, straightened out to make the slip road the running line. But then the addition of the other side road makes it a sort of offset scissors crossover. Whatever you call it, it would be great fun to build. Martin. |
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posted: 30 Dec 2012 12:29 from: Paul Boyd
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Any chance of being able to post the photos here? (with appropriate permissions, of course!) Unless I'm signed in, they can't be seen, and it does sound like an interesting formation! |
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posted: 30 Dec 2012 17:01 from: Adrian Marks click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
53_301159_510000000.jpg 53_301200_390000000.jpg Photos ©Public Domain |
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Last edited on 30 Dec 2012 17:02 by Adrian Marks |
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posted: 30 Dec 2012 17:05 from: Martin Wynne
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Thanks Adrian -- you beat me by 2 minutes in posting them. Martin. |
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posted: 30 Dec 2012 17:25 from: Adrian Marks click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
No problem Working out how the interlaced sleepers and straight timbers all fitted together might be fun. I think you'd have to work around all the crossings first, then fill in with the rest. It's a bit of a bonkers formation though, something that the GE seem to have excelled at. |
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posted: 31 Dec 2012 10:56 from: Paul Boyd
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Thanks for the photos. Isn't it just a scissors, with the curve of the formation pushing the centre diamond into one of the running lines? Does look fun to build though! |
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posted: 31 Dec 2012 11:53 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Thanks for the photos. Isn't it just a scissors, with the curve of the formation pushing the centre diamond into one of the running lines? Does look fun to build though!Hi Paul, Well maybe, but hardly "just" a scissors. In a normal scissors crossover, all 4 crossings of the diamond lie within the 6ft way between the running lines. This is not affected by the radius in the running lines, you can curve such a scissors down to any radius you like, assuming the stock will negotiate it. In this case, it is performing the same function as a scissors crossover, but the two underlying crossovers have been displaced. The turnouts in the running line have been moved much closer together, and those in the side road much farther apart, so that one of the K-crossings now lies in the 4ft way. Or to put it another way, one rail of the running line crosses inside the diamond. If you ignore the other side road, that makes that part essentially the same as an outside slip. I don't think this formation has a name of its own. You can certainly call it a scissors crossover, but if you do so most readers would assume something different. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 31 Dec 2012 19:02 from: Stephen Freeman
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Hi, You mean something like this? 142_311400_500000000.jpg |
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posted: 3 Jan 2013 19:24 from: Paul Boyd
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Odd how these things pop up - I just happened to be reading Chris Pendlenton's Ivatt 4MT article in MRJ175, and there on page 136 is another example of this formation! Built by Norman Solomon for a client's Shrewsbury layout in 7mm scale. I'd better not post it because of copyright issues. To quote:- "You can call it an interlaced scissor." |
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posted: 5 Jan 2013 09:48 from: JFS
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I like it as well...1129_050441_550000000.jpg .. it saves a lot of space and is not as cliched as a scissors! Best wishes, Howard. |
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posted: 5 Jan 2013 15:55 from: TimRKirby
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@Howard Very nice - is that an image of the 7mm track from MRJ ? | ||
posted: 5 Jan 2013 16:04 from: JFS
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Hi Tim TimRKirby wrote: @Howard Very nice - is that an image of the 7mm track from MRJ ?Many thanks, but no, it is P4 - there is something of a saga about it here:- http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=1342 Best wishes, Howard. |
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posted: 5 Jan 2013 23:19 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello, I am amazed at the complexity of your trackwork.Where do you start when it comes to creating insulation gaps for something so complex? |
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posted: 6 Jan 2013 18:56 from: JFS
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Trevor Walling wrote: Where do you start when it comes to creating insulation gaps for something so complex?Hello Trevor, Well, the first thing is that even the most complex formation breaks down into standard bits - ie common crossings and obtuse crossings and from there you can work from two basic rules:- 1. all common crossing must have a polarity change-over switch worked by whichever pair of switch blades directs the traffic over them 2. all obtuse crossings must not be switched and must be permanently connected to an appropriate stockrail The second thing is to think very carefully about exactly where the section breaks need to be - a minimum number of sections which still allow all the parallel traffic movements to be made. (I am using four controllers - DC - as there is a maximum of four movements to take place at once. The really important thing of course is to consider all of that in detail before you even cut the first bit of rail - doing that enables you to avoid unnecessary gaps enabling you to construct the bits in the minimum possible number of assemblies. Hope that helps! Best wishes, Howard |
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posted: 7 Jan 2013 14:33 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello, Thanks Howard.You make it all sound so easy.I assume the same processes would apply if one was using dcc? Trevor. |
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posted: 7 Jan 2013 14:57 from: JFS
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Hello Trevor, Everything is easy when talking in terms of grand principles!! One thing I would add is that Templot makes a lot of these things "easier" - just print off a half size Template then trace all the rails to see where they need to be cut to prevent a short circuit. Since Templot shows the joints, you can work out which ones need to be insulated. My personal experience is with DC but I would not do any different with DCC (except to put a lot more copper in the wires!) since, talking to friends who do use it, it is really helpful to be able to divide everything up into sections for test purposes - even if, for DCC they would always all be switched "on" at the same time. AND you can plug in a DC controller to test new chassis etc. If it all seems a bit daunting, I would recommend joining a local group - there is always one clever clogs who understands this stuff! Best wishes, H |
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posted: 7 Jan 2013 15:39 from: Martin Wynne
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JFS wrote:it is really helpful to be able to divide everything up into sections for test purposes - even if, for DCC they would always all be switched "on" at the same time. AND you can plug in a DC controller to test new chassis etc.Hi Trevor, Note that the section breaks are needed on one side only (normally called the feed side). All the rails on the other side can be commoned together (normally called the return side). A useful tip is to have the Feed side at the Front of the layout, and the Return side at the Rear. Then you always know which is which, even when you are underneath the layout, or the boards are upside down. Martin. |
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posted: 7 Jan 2013 20:02 from: JFS
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Martin Wynne wrote:
Absolutely right Martin, though in this I confess to being a cautious beggar, I insulate both rails at the section gaps and connect the rear-side rails to the common return through isolation switches mounted under the boards. That way, if a short suddenly appears, I can separately isolate both rails to narrow down the potential causes. I doubt others would find this such a useful precaution (not everyone has Nickel-silver point rodding running under all the rails). But it is something of an insurance policy! Best Wishes, Howard. |
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posted: 8 Jan 2013 17:47 from: Phil O
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I'm an awkward bugger and use the front as the common and the rear for feeds as there are usually less breaks in the common. But each to their own. Cheers Phil |
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posted: 11 Jan 2013 16:08 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello, I knew there was something else I meant to ask Howard.How do you colour/stain the sleepers to achieve such a realistic look? Trevor. |
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posted: 11 Jan 2013 19:16 from: JFS
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Trevor Walling wrote: Hello,You are too kind Trevor! I hope you would think the same if you saw them in the flesh! I stain them as loose sleepers or as timber strip using Colron wood dye - a mixture of African Blackwood and Dark Oak. I thin it a bit with turps then put the whole lot in a jam jar and slosh it all about. In the case of the timber strip, I soak a rag in the mix then pull the strip through it. Then I spread them on old newspaper to dry, moving them around frequently. At that stage they look much too dark, but, If you want to enhance the grain a bit, when you stick them down (to the Template or the baseboard) you can rub a glass-fibre stick over them - this lightens the timber but leaves the grain dark. BUT there are downsides to this approach - when you stick the chairs to the sleepers, you have to take care otherwise the solvent disturbs the stain. I am told that dilute acrylic paint is a less smelly alternative but I have not tried it personally. The original P4 method was to use Potassium Permanganate solution (which is bright purple but stains wood brown) and I recall that working well. You can get your KMnO4 from a chemist's though they might ask what you want it for! My suggestion would be to do what I did - experiment a bit until you get what you need - the real thing varies a lot in colouring I think. Since this pic was taken I have done a bit of painting and weathering - if I can get my camera to work again, I will past a few more pics and put a link here. Best wishes, Howard. |
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posted: 11 Jan 2013 20:53 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello, "The original P4 method was to use Potassium Permanganate solution (which is bright purple but stains wood brown) and I recall that working well. You can get your KMnO4 from a chemist's though they might ask what you want it for!" I obtained some a while ago but am unsure how to mix it |
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posted: 11 Jan 2013 20:59 from: JFS
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You just dissolve it in water - it is very soluble. Not very much is needed to make a very intense stain - I would experiment with different strengths. For goodness sake don't spill any - it is a pretty permanent stain! | ||
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