Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 04:44 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hi all, Does anyone have any methods for cutting sleepers to length please, keeping the end square at the same time? I have some C&L Copper Clad strip (1.6mm thick) but bearing in mind the number of sleepers that will eventually be required I'd quite like a quicker/easier way to cut them than a mitre saw and block!! Many thanks. Best Regards, Brian Tulley |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 12:43 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Brian What you need is the Acme Chopper. Yes, really! You'll get through a few blades cutting PCB sleepers, but it copes fine. I've replaced the plastic cutting pad on mine with aluminium though. I don't know where to get it from these days, but it least you have something to google on. |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 13:10 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: What you need is the Acme Chopper. Yes, really! You'll get through a few blades cutting PCB sleepers, but it copes fine. I've replaced the plastic cutting pad on mine with aluminium though.Hi Paul, Brian, Proops Brothers have this inexpensive plastic version (GBP 7.95). Details at: Proops Guillotine dc_1.jpg  C6035.gif No doubt it's available elsewhere too (Squires?). regards, Martin. |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 15:54 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin Yup - that's the one! |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 18:42 from: Jim Guthrie
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polybear wrote: Hi all,Brian, My quick and dirty method is to clamp a piece of metal in the vice jaws and position it such that when you hold a pair of side cutters against the side of the jaws, the distance from the piece of metal to the cutting parts of the side cutters is the length of sleeper you want. Then it's just a case of pushing the sleeper strip into the gap in the vice jaws till it butts up against the bit of metal and hold the side cutters against the side of the jaws, and cut. You can cut a pile of sleepers quite quickly and the lengths are reasonably constant, and you can get square ends if you make sure that you hold the side cutters flat against the vice jaw ends. You can do the same with ply strip as well if you are wanting wooden sleepers cut to length. Jim. |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 21:17 from: John Lewis
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Paul Boyd wrote:Hi BrianIt does sound a little like some of the offers my spam service eliminates!  John |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 21:34 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hi all Thanks for the replies; I've been asking the same question on RMWeb here: cutting PCB sleepers (RMweb) Here's my latest post, which may be of interest to the Templot Club also: I've been getting my PCB strip from the EMGS - it's actually C&L but sold a little cheaper (£4-15). I purchased 1.6mm thick but any thoughts as to if this was a good idea or not would be much appreciated - would 1.06mm be better? I went for the thicker material after seeing a Turnout I'd made using thin plastic sleepering curl up - the sleepers went slightly banana shaped. I asked Normon Solomon about this - apparently it's down to stresses in the rail when you bend it - the rail tries to straighten itself and as a result can cause the effect I saw. Not so much of a problem if you get the Turnout glued down quickly - I didn't!! Rolling a piece of wooden dowel along the Turnout apparently helps to de-stress the rail also. I'm not matching up to any other trackwork, so this won't be a consideration. I wasn't aware of ready-cut sleepers being available from SMP, but the comments made about C&L being more consistent & better quality are worth considering. It may be that C&L sleepers resist distorting better than SMP as the former are double sided copper clad? Just a thought, but I may (i.e. probably!) be talking complete cobblers.... I already have a Proops chopper, which is fine if you plan to use ply sleepers. As for cutting C&L copper clad - no way! Even with a new blade all it managed was a score mark in the copper.... The NWSL Chopper is much better made but I'd like confirmation it's actually capable of the job before buying one. I think the money would be better spent on either the Minicraft or Proxxon bench saw - probably the latter, even though it's almost twice the price. I have a Minicraft Bench Sander already, and whilst it'll do what it's intended for I do feel it's expensive for what it is. Proxxon stuff is much better made I think. Incidentally, I plan to try out the etched brass chairs from Masokits (there was a feature on them in MRJ a while back) in conjunction with the sleepers. Since the rail is supported clear of the sleepers it looks a bit better I think; it's also adjustable, strong and the chairs added at the same time. I'll post some pictures/information in the Workbench section when get going, if anyone's interested. Brian |
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posted: 15 Oct 2008 22:48 from: Paul Boyd
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Brian wrote:I already have a Proops chopper, which is fine if you plan to use ply sleepers. As for cutting C&L copper clad - no way! Even with a new blade all it managed was a score mark in the copper.... The NWSL Chopper is much better made but I'd like confirmation it's actually capable of the job before buying one.The chopper I have is identical in appearance to the Proops one Martin has posted. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IuR7XzpI0 is my first ever YouTube video that shows it making short work of copperclad sleeper strip with a tatty old blade. The only alteration from standard is that I replaced the plastic cutting pad with an aluminium one after the plastic one wore out. Oh yeah, 1mm thick would be better! Hope this helps |
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| Last edited on 15 Oct 2008 22:50 by Paul Boyd |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 00:10 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Paul Boyd wrote:Paul I get the impression that your sleepers are getting cut to different lengths... Nigel |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 01:12 from: Paul Boyd
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Nigel wrote:I get the impression that your sleepers are getting cut to different lengths...Peco Crazy Track stylee A length stop is easy enough to rig up - I just didn't bother for the 9 second clip! Mostly though I now use it for cutting point timbering to pencil-marked lengths, using ply, and just buy in plain track sleepers already cut to length. I did originally buy it though for chopping up SMP copper-clad sleeper/timber strips for which it did the job admirably. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 02:29 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: The chopper I have is identical in appearance to the Proops one Martin has posted. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IuR7XzpI0 is my first ever YouTube video that shows it making short work of copperclad sleeper strip with a tatty old blade.Hi Paul, Great video! Is that SRBP paper/resin copper laminate or glassfibre? regards, Martin. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 17:24 from: GeoffJones
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polybear wroteDoes anyone have any methods for cutting sleepers to length please, keeping the end square at the same time?I use a Xuron track cutter with a little scale clamped to it for getting the length right. It would be quite easy to arrange a stop on this set up but as we have pre-cut sleepers in 2mm I don't need that. A larger version for 4mm scale would work perfectly well. The scale clamps to the pivot boss on the Xuron cutter but works equally well on box joint side cutters. It is not suitable for cheaper single joint side cutters as there is nothing to clamp to. The scale is simply a bit of a cheap plastic ruler painted white on the back and Araldited to a bit of bent brass with a spacer underneath to get the height level with the cutting edge. The only slight difficulty I found was getting my head round which way to bend the brass to match the angle of the cutter. Regards Geoff |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 19:28 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Martin Wynne wrote:Is that SRBP paper/resin copper laminate or glassfibre?Hi Martin, I remembered I had the left-overs of an SMP Turnout kit tucked away, so I tried cutting some of the PCB Strip (measured at 1.16mm thick) with my Proops Chopper - it took a fair bit of pressure on the handle but it managed it. Maybe Paul Boyd's aluminium insert helps, or maybe he uses a better quality blade (mine is the standard one supplied with the Chopper). Or maybe Paul has muscles like Arnie (used to have!). The SMP PCB strip (bearing in mind it was purchased some years ago) is certainly different to that supplied by C&L - the SMP is a very light brown colour and single sided; the C&L material is probably a fibreglass substrate (FR4; the edges of the sleepers are a sort of greenish colour.) Admittedly the C&L strip I have is 1.6mm thick, but I'd bet good money that the Proops Chopper wouldn't cut the thinner stuff either. What I'd love to lay my hands on is an Edwards 12" pedestal guillotine; trouble is they're getting rare and on the odd occasion when they appear on Ebay they sell for silly money.... Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 19:53 from: Martin Wynne
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polybear wrote:Admittedly the C&L strip I have is 1.6mm thick, but I'd bet good money that the Proops Chopper wouldn't cut the thinner stuff either.Hi Brian, Paul, I don't have access to a Proops Chopper to try this, but have you tried standing the fibreglass strip on edge in the chopper, rather than laying it flat? It may be that you need a slotted guide of some sort to keep it upright. Perhaps you could beef up the chopper by bolting it down to the bench and slipping some metal pipe over the handle? The NWSL choppers are more substantial - Chopper 2 looks to be all-metal construction: Chopper 2: 82439.jpg  Available from: chopper 1 chopper 2 regards, Martin. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 20:16 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Great! I've spent ages trying to find out where you can get the Chopper II in the UK. Thanks Martin Nigel |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 20:27 from: Paul Boyd
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Martin wrote:Is that SRBP paper/resin copper laminateThis is the SRBP stuff. I haven't noticed FR4 timbering sold, although I'm sure it probably is somewhere. (Ah - sounds like C&L use FR4!) Brian wrote: The SMP PCB strip (bearing in mind it was purchased some years ago) is certainly different to that supplied by C&L - the SMP is a very light brown colour and single sided; the C&L material is probably a fibreglass substrate (FR4; the edges of the sleepers are a sort of greenish colour.) Admittedly the C&L strip I have is 1.6mm thick, but I'd bet good money that the Proops Chopper wouldn't cut the thinner stuff either.Well, assuming my chopper is the same as the Proops chopper, it cuts "the thinner stuff" perfectly well as can be seen! The stuff in the video clip was from SMP, and was just over 1mm thick so sounds identical to what you have. I would have my doubts about it cutting 1.6mm FR4 though, but I don't have any strip with which to try it. The blade is the bog-standard blade that it came with, and the one in the video clip is well worn. I think the aluminium plate may help a little though, and I don't have muscles like Arnie! I can think of two things that may help. One is that the chopper is screwed down to a lump of MDF, which cuts a lot of the flex out. The other is that when setting the blade up, make sure it's still square to the cutting pad with full cutting pressure on the handle - which means it may not be square when unloaded. Really, if you do use the thinner material, I think the Acme/Proops chopper is fine. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 20:39 from: wcampbell23
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Nigel Brown wrote: Great! I've spent ages trying to find out where you can get the Chopper II in the UK.Hi everyone I had a look around the web site and another possibility for cutting is the Proxxon cut-off saw: http://www.plastruct.co.uk/shop/prodpages/page-27150.html It may be worth considering given its other uses. Regards Bill Campbell. |
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posted: 16 Oct 2008 23:01 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
wcampbell23 wroteI had a look around the web site and another possibility for cutting is the Proxxon cut-off saw:Hi all, Here's another idea from the Proxxon range: http://www.plastruct.co.uk/shop/prodpages/page-27006.html It's been suggested on RMWeb that a Diamond cutting disc may be the best blade option if you have a lot to cut: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=473131#p473131 Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 17 Oct 2008 00:08 from: R A Watson click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Gents, Just a word of warning, I tried to order a Minicraft MB410 sawbench from DIYGEAR.COM online, This firm trades as Infolink Electronic Systems, 18 Rednall Rd Kings Norton Birmingham. Despite the promise to inform if a back order situation arises I have had no contact from them although the order was placed and the credit card transaction cleared on 26th August (today is 16 October) also there is no reply from the telephone number quoted on the site. I hasten to add that to date no money has been taken from my account. So if you are tempted please show some caution when commiting to an order. Must close now to try to get the Proxon you are all talking about. Wally |
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posted: 17 Oct 2008 15:15 from: Templot User
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R A Watson wrote: Must close now to try to get the Proxxon you are all talking about.----- from Alan Hall ----- The Proxxon stuff is really good. I can get it from my local hardware shop in York, mostly from stock. It is really good to be able to "hold it" before buying it... alan@york |
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posted: 17 Oct 2008 15:44 from: JohnM
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The Proxxon stuff is really good. I can get it from my local hardware shop in York, mostly from stock. It is really good to be able to "hold it" before buying it...Alan, Please name your 'local hardware' shop in York, Thanks, John M Knaresborough |
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posted: 17 Oct 2008 21:02 from: Templot User
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Please name your 'local hardware' shop in York----- from Alan Hall ----- Barnitts. Still have stuff at the old prices as well... This shop is an absolute disaster for my wallet. Cheap tools, staff who know their stuff, and recommend good alternatives, if you let them. Also very good for furniture/lighting/wallpaper etc. alan@york |
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posted: 18 Oct 2008 00:56 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Martin Wynne wrote:I don't have access to a Proops Chopper to try this, but have you tried standing the fibreglass strip on edge in the chopper, rather than laying it flat? It may be that you need a slotted guide of some sort to keep it upright. Perhaps you could beef up the chopper by bolting it down to the bench and slipping some metal pipe over the handle?Hi Martin, I just tried the Proops Chopper with it secured to the workbench with a couple of G-Clamps; it now cuts SMP Strip without difficulty. I also tried the same material stood on edge, but unfortunately the rigidity of the Handle assembly isn't good enough - the blade tends to go "off vertical" during such a cut, resulting in a very crooked end to the sleeper. I also tried C&L 1.6mm strip (laid flat) - it's now possible to cut it (it takes a fair amount of force though) and because of this the blade tends to go off-vertical once again. The resulting cut isn't the best in the world (though ballasting may well hide this) but I suspect the Chopper wouldn't stand such abuse for very long..... Possibly C&L 1.06mm strip may be fine, but I don't have any to hand to try. I'm pondering going for an NWSL Chopper 2 (being all-metal construction I suspect it will fare a lot better), or more likely I'll go for the Proxxon Bench Saw since it will have more uses. If anyone has either of these (or plans to purchase) I'd be interested to hear of your opinions. Many thanks. Best Regards, Brian Tulley |
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posted: 18 Oct 2008 14:47 from: Noel Adams
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The Proxxon stuff is really good. I can get it from my local hardware shop in York, mostly from stock. It is really good to be able to "hold it" before buying it...I can also recommend Proxxon equipment and Beesleys Tool Shop in Swindon. Noel |
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posted: 19 Oct 2008 02:51 from: JohnM
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----- from Alan Hall ----- Thanks, Alan. I thought it might me Barnitts, I agree with your comments. Regards, John M |
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posted: 19 Oct 2008 21:55 from: polybear click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hi All, Whilst attending the Model Railway exhibition at Peterborough yesterday (which was o.k. apart from appalling catering) and at great personal expense (o.k., a fiver) I purchased some PCB Sleeper strip (1.06mm thick) from those very nice people on the C&L Stand (no connection, etc. etc.). This morning I tried cutting it using the Proops Chopper (clamped down). It managed it, with a fair (not brilliant) result; however, the force required to do so left me thinking the Chopper wouldn't appreciate such treatment for too long. If you're building a Shunting Plank you may get away with it.... However, and whilst scrambling about the loft, I noticed that Office Guillotine (made by Rex) and purchased from (I think) Aldi several years ago for not very much (under a tenner I think). I was sure it would come in really handy, but has spent most of it's life in the loft... So I thought I'd give it a go on PCB Sleeper strip. After adjusting (i.e. tightening) the hinge screw a little to remove excess play the results on 1.06mm strip are impressive. The Guillotine already has a raised edge on the table to ensure square cuts; improvising a fixed stop (adjustable maybe) to enable batches of same-length sleepers to be easily cut will be a doddle. I also tried some 1.6mm strip - the results are also good (not quite as good as the thinner strip, but after ballasting you would never know). It's a bit more brutal though, with a decided grrr-ronk (technical term) as the blade goes down. I'll post a couple of photos to show the Guillotine and resulting cut (1.06mm strip) under "PCB Sleeper Cutting" in the Photos section. Best Regards, Brian Tulley |
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posted: 25 Mar 2012 12:09 from: Jerry
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Martin Wynne wrote: polybear wrote:As of March 2012 the links Martin gave are dead.Admittedly the C&L strip I have is 1.6mm thick, but I'd bet good money that the Proops Chopper wouldn't cut the thinner stuff either.Hi Brian, Paul, The Cutter 2 is now at http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/nwsl-the-chopper-ii.html £40.82. Jerry |
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posted: 25 Mar 2012 13:34 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I've had a NWSL Chopper II for some time. Very useful. Couple of comments. Firstly, it's good for repeating stuff, except that the handle has just a tad more play than I'd like, so absolute precision isn't guaranteed. It depends on what your needs are whether this matters or not; for cutting plastic sleepers I've found it's OK. Secondly, don't let your fingers anywhere near the blade. If you catch one underneath the blade the first thing you'll probably notice is a bit of finger rolling around the cutting mat! Cheers Nigel |
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posted: 25 Mar 2012 13:58 from: Glen Suckling
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Hi Martin, Martin Wynne wrote: have you tried standing the fibreglass strip on edge in the chopper, rather than laying it flat? Unusually for you this was not a good idea! I tried it in my Chopper 2 and it peeled the copper off of the substrate. The Chopper 2 works well on the flat but I go through a lot of blades. Getting lazy in my old age I now buy my standard length pcb sleepers precut from either Marcway or FastTracks. Regards, Glen |
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posted: 25 Mar 2012 19:38 from: Jerry
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Thanks for the comments, especially the risk of finger shortening! I tried PCB several years ago and am going back to ply, but with plastic chairs this time around. My eyesight is no longer good enough to see the rivet holes, it can take me several minutes to get I rivet located, so gave up. I want to be able to see all the crossing timbers lined up correctly, hence my finding this thread. Regards Jerry |
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posted: 3 Apr 2012 15:46 from: Andy Vines
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My method is basic but it works for me, I use a large pair of tin snips, think they are 8" or 9", I clamp one of the handles in a vice which leaves me one hand to hold the copperclad length and the other hand to operate the other handle. Suppose its basically a improvised (bodged) up heavy duty version of your choppers.... |
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