N Gauge 9FS ???

M Druiett · 21 July 2022

Hello,
I have a question regarding the 2mm gauges on offer on templot.
I'm looking at the N Gauge options inparticular the NFX option with the tighter check rail clearances? As an option not to go to 2mm FS standards.
Has anyone built to this NFX gauge and is it operable with the modern ready to run smaller flanged wheels we have today??
It certainly looks better......
I look forward to hearing any opinions
best wishes
Michael

Jim Guthrie · 21 July 2022

Probably better known as FS160 which has been around for several years - which effectively pushes the 2mm standards in to 9mm gauge. It works very well and if you join the 2mm Association, there are a good few items like wheels and track parts which can be of use.

http://www.fs160.eu/

I can't remember when NFX sneaked into the gauge list.

Jim.

Martin Wynne · 21 July 2022

Jim Guthrie said:
Probably better known as FS160

@M Druiett @Jim Guthrie @Wayne Kinney

Hi Jim,

No it isn't, the scale is different. That means different rail width, different double-track spacing, different timber sizes, different timber spacings.

Hi Michael,

see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-fx.376/

and

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...-term-project/&do=findComment&comment=4547649

I have no practical experience of N gauge, so I have to rely entirely on what I'm told or can find out from web sites and published information. You wouldn't believe how difficult it can be to get definitive UK information. There is an N Gauge Society which appears to publish no standards information at all. I was led believe that this N-FX standard corresponds to the Finetrax turnout kits, but I can find no confirmation of that on the Finetrax web site:

https://www.britishfinescale.com/category-s/1845.htm

Hopefully someone using N-FX can provide more information for you.

cheers,

Martin.

Wayne Kinney · 21 July 2022

Hi Martin,

I did ask you to messege me regarding this a while back but didn't hear back from you?

It would be best if you email me on my main email, thanks.

Martin Wynne · 21 July 2022

Wayne Kinney said:
Hi Martin,

I did ask you to messege me regarding this a while back but didn't hear back from you?

@Wayne Kinney

Hi Wayne,

Sorry. My memory is useless nowadays. What did you want to know? I thought I was waiting to hear from you? I know your kits have a track gauge of 9.0mm, but what is the crossing flangeway gap? I assume the timbering scale is 2mm/ft (1:152) rather than 1:148 or 1:160?

The RMweb topic linked above seems to be mixing your Finetrax kits with 9.42mm gauge 2FS Easitrac kits, which strikes me as a recipe for trouble, but I really don't know.

The 00 gauge standards are a piece of cake compared with trying to make sense of N gauge.

cheers,

Martin.

Wayne Kinney · 21 July 2022

Thanks Martin,
When you posted a few months ago about N-FX, you tagged me on it '@Waynekinney' and my first thought was that the FX stood for Finetrax. I may be wrong.

Upon looking at the specs of N-FX in templot, I saw that the specs did not match Finetrax.

Having read more, I am now assuming that N-FX has nothing to do with Finetrax?
------
EDIT: I've never had an email from you asking for specs I've used on my N Gauge Finetrax?

Martin Wynne · 21 July 2022

@Wayne Kinney

Hi Wayne,

Can we start again at the beginning?

I was inspired to add the N-FX settings to Templot because of the discussion on RMweb, about the Finetrax kits not matching the default N gauge pre-set in Templot.

But I haven't said anywhere in Templot that the N-FX pre-set does match Finetrax, and you now say that it doesn't. I originally planned to call it N-FS or N-SF, but that risked confusion with the 2mm Association's 2FS standard.

If you could please tell me the actual standards you are using, I will add them to Templot and have a re-think about the naming.

cheers,

Martin.

Wayne Kinney · 21 July 2022

Hi Martin,

It might be best if you email me (I asked you to email me on 9th Feb).
All I have read is your post that you tagged me in:
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-fx.376/

You didn't mention what the purpose of the N-FX template was, I assumed it was something to do with N Gauge Finetrax. So at the moment I have no idea of your aims or intentions with it?

If you could start by explaining what the N-FX template is for.

My N Gauge Finetrax range is 'based' on the templot 'N' 2.06mm/ft template. I have made a change to asymetric flangeway clearences and also shortened timber length.

If your aim is to make a template to match to my N Gauge Finetrax, I would recommend contacting me via my email so we are on the same page

Martin Wynne · 21 July 2022

Wayne Kinney said:
You didn't mention what the purpose of the N-FX template was, I assumed it was something to do with N Gauge Finetrax. So at the moment I have no idea of your aims or intentions with it?

If you could start by explaining what the N-FX template is for.

@Wayne Kinney

Hi Wayne,

Templot is a tool for modellers who build their own track.

The N-FX pre-set is for those who wish to use the 2mm Association's 2FS wheels on 9.0mm gauge instead of 9.42mm gauge.

To match available N gauge flexi-track, and also to provide more space for locomotive valve gear, splashers, axle sideplay, etc.

I was under the impression that was the intent of your N Finetrax kits, but clearly I was mistaken. If your Finetrax kits are not that, and are using asymmetric flangeways, it is not possible for them to have a preset of their own in Templot. Asymmetric flangeways will cause lots of problems when creating complex formations from partial templates (other than when they arise from gauge-widening on sharp curves), so I wouldn't want a pre-set available which might give rise to such problems for handbuilt track.

It would be better to provide for users of the N Finetrax kits via custom library templates on file. In order to have asymmetric flangeways they would need to be comprised of multiple partial templates.

To avoid confusion I will change the N-FX name to something else.

I will email you, but I do want all Templot-related info to be public so that users have full information.

cheers,

Martin.

Wayne Kinney · 21 July 2022

Thanks Martin,

That clears things up for me.

So to be clear for others, N-FX should NOT be used to make templates to match Finetrax N Gauge kits.

Martin Wynne said:
I was under the impression that was the intent of your N Finetrax kits, but clearly I was mistaken.

The intention of my N Gauge Finetrax is, amongst other things, to provide tighter flangeway gaps whilst still allowing RTR N Gauge stock to run through unmodified (unless a wheel back to back is massively out!)

After 10 years providing the N Gauge Finetrax kits, I beleive I have suceeded in this goal.

My N Gauge Finetrax kits use the following specs:

Flangeway gaps - driven by 7.15mm between check rails:
Common Crossings: 0.85mm flangeways through the crossing frog/wing rails. 1mm flangeways at the check rails.

Obtuse 'K' crossings like at the centre of a diamond or slip: 0.925mm flangeway gap.

Timbering length: 16.8mm

Track centres: 23mm.

I hope this info helps

Martin Wynne said:
The 00 gauge standards are a piece of cake compared with trying to make sense of N gauge.

Agreed

M Druiett · 21 July 2022

Well !
That's a proper reply

Thanks very much for clearing that minefield up.

regards
Michael

Martin Wynne · 22 July 2022

@Wayne Kinney

Thanks Wayne.

Now that I know your figures I will create some custom templates based on your Finetrax kits which Templot users can use for layout planning with them, or to create curved templates from them.

To avoid confusion I have settled on 9FS to rename the N-FX pre-set:

The change will be in the next program update 234e soon. I will then edit all previous N-FX references and screenshots on here and RMweb to correspond. As always a change in the code takes minutes, keeping the docs up-to-date takes hours.

If I don't forget to do it -- someone please remind me.

cheers,

Martin.

Chris Noble · 3 February 2024

Hi all
I would like to build some turnouts to the aforementioned 9FS standards but I am not completely clear of the correct gauge sizing. I read above that Finetrax uses asymmetric flangeways that do not seem to be an option in Templot. My goal is to achieve the equivalent of OO-SF but in N gauge using code 40 rail. Any help with the below questions would be appreciated:-
1) What are the flangeway sizes for 9FS in Templot?
2) Does anyone sell the appropriate gauges or will I need to get some made?
Thanks
Chris

Martin Wynne · 3 February 2024

Chris Noble said:
Hi all
I would like to build some turnouts to the aforementioned 9FS standards but I am not completely clear of the correct gauge sizing. I read above that Finetrax uses asymmetric flangeways that do not seem to be an option in Templot. My goal is to achieve the equivalent of OO-SF but in N gauge using code 40 rail. Any help with the below questions would be appreciated:-
1) What are the flangeway sizes for 9FS in Templot?
2) Does anyone sell the appropriate gauges or will I need to get some made?
Thanks
Chris

@Chris Noble

Hi Chris,

Welcome to Templot Club.

I'm afraid I am well out of my comfort zone on this -- my knowledge of N gauge is nil, as is evident from the previous discussion.

Always the first question before track dimensions can be discussed is what wheels do you want to use?

The idea of 9FS (0.5mm flangeways) is to use the 2mm Association finescale wheels on 9mm gauge (instead of their usual 9.42mm gauge), with the back-to-back adjusted to suit.

9FS won't work with commercial N gauge RTR wheels. The wheel flanges won't fit in the flangeway gap.

For some discussion about creating finer track standards using N gauge RTR wheels, see these topics:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-sf.42

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_1334.php

From which I suggested (but haven't tried):

TG track gauge: 9.0mm MIN.

CG check gauge: 8.25mm MIN.

CS check span: 7.5mm MAX.

CF crossing flangeway gap 0.75mm MIN.

BB wheels back to back: 7.60mm MIN.

BEF wheels back to effective flange: 8.25mm MAX.

To avoid modifying the back-to-back, i.e. to create the equivalent of 00-SF using RTR wheels unmodified, you would need to reduce all those dimensions by 0.2mm, i.e.

TG track gauge: 8.8mm MIN.

CG check gauge: 8.05mm MIN.

CS check span: 7.3mm MAX.

CF crossing flangeway gap 0.75mm MIN.

BB wheels back to back: 7.40mm MIN. (as MOROP)

BEF wheels back to effective flange: 8.05mm MAX.

See also:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topi...ointwork-in-n/?do=findComment&comment=3034603

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_2684.php

cheers,

Martin.

Chris Noble · 5 February 2024

Hi Martin
Thanks for your extremely thorough reply. Are you able to point me to a drawing that shows the measurement points for each of the dimensions you cited above please? Some of them appear obvious but I would hate to assume and make errors having done so.
I was under the impression that 9FS used the same values as the Finetrax range excepting the difference between the crossing flangeways and the check rail flangeways, am I correct in saying this is not the case?
Regards
Chris

Martin Wynne · 5 February 2024

Chris Noble said:
Hi Martin
Thanks for your extremely thorough reply. Are you able to point me to a drawing that shows the measurement points for each of the dimensions you cited above please? Some of them appear obvious but I would hate to assume and make errors having done so.
I was under the impression that 9FS used the same values as the Finetrax range excepting the difference between the crossing flangeways and the check rail flangeways, am I correct in saying this is not the case?
Regards
Chris

@Chris Noble

Hi Chris,

Diagrams below. Sorry, I don't understand your question about 9FS. The only similarity with the Finetrax kits is that both use 9mm track gauge. 9FS is not for use with N gauge RTR wheels shown below:

The two critical dimensions are CG MIN and BEF MAX.

Links for more info:

https://www.morop.org/images/NEM_register/NEM_E/nem110_en_2009_20111116.pdf

https://www.morop.org/images/NEM_register/NEM_E/nem310_en_2009_20111116.pdf

https://www.morop.org/index.php/en/nem-the-norms.html

cheers,

Martin.

N Gauge 9FS ???

M Druiett

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Jim Guthrie

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Martin Wynne

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Wayne Kinney

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Martin Wynne

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Wayne Kinney

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Martin Wynne

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Wayne Kinney

Member

Martin Wynne

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Wayne Kinney

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M Druiett

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Martin Wynne

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Chris Noble

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Martin Wynne

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Chris Noble

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Martin Wynne

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