00-SF pointwork kits

[Martin Wynne]

After all the arguments and hot air on RMweb 10 years ago, and far beyond anything I dreamed of when I added 00-SF to the Templot gauge list 20+ years ago, today we have the release of a superb 00-SF turnout kit from @Wayne Kinney :

From: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-00sf-b7.htm

More: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...ointwork-kits/&do=findComment&comment=4526434

It's so sad that Gordon didn't live to see this day, because he would have been delighted. He was a prime advocate of 00-SF, with many following in his footsteps.

Martin.

 

[Tom King]

Agree, I have installed one so far and am very pleased with it.
I also agree with you about Gordon. His postings were the first that got me interested in OO-SF.

Separately, do you Martin or others happen to know what tweaks if any are needed for an OO-SF B7 turnout template in Templot to match Wayne's base dimensions and timber positions ?
I have a complex to build, and plan to use the kit in 2 places in the complex, and I hope to plan the hand built timbering around the kit bases where workable.

 

[Martin Wynne]

do you Martin or others happen to know what tweaks if any are needed for an OO-SF B7 turnout template in Templot to match Wayne's base dimensions and timber positions ?

@Tom King @Wayne Kinney

Hi Tom,

Welcome to Templot Club.

The EM Finetrax kits are an exact match to the default B-7 template in Templot (with regular V-crossing) and I expect the 00-SF kits to be likewise. Wayne hasn't yet posted the template for the 00-SF kits so I can't be definite about that.

The Standard 00 kits do differ slightly from the default 00-D0GAI template in that the crossing entry straight needs to be changed to 14.0mm for an exact match.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Tom King]

Nice to be here, thank you Martin

 

[Hayfield]

Tom

What are you plans

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Wayne sent me this boxfile for a OO-SF turnout

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford @Tom King

Thanks Steve.

That's identical to a default 00-SF B-7 in Templot.

Martin.

 

[Tom King]

Thank you Steve and thank you Martin. Just a change to square on timbering, I can definitely manage that
I have to curve one of them too. For the EM version Martin suggested leaving the outer webs intact and cutting the inner ones for the best match to the Templot template. Would that be your advice with the 00-SF ones too ?
Tom

 

[Martin Wynne]

For the EM version Martin suggested leaving the outer webs intact and cutting the inner ones for the best match to the Templot template. Would that be your advice with the 00-SF ones too ?

@Tom King

Hi Tom,

Remove (don't just cut) all the webs marked red:

For a perfect match on sharp curves, cut the base into individual timbers and stick them (very accurately) on a printed curved turnout. But curving as above will be a very close match at normal radii. See also this later post:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/00-sf-pointwork-kits.237/post-2428

Don't forget to put a set in the turnout-side stock rail, as indicated on the template. It's not mentioned in the kit instructions.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Tom King]

Thanks Martin, yes I put a set in the straight one I have assembled so far. Perhaps not quite enough, but it is there.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Template versus real thing
Having remembered to load my printer calibration file, I have printed the template Wayne supplied and then overlayed it with an actual OO-SF B7 turnout base moulding supplied by Wayne and the fit is pretty good.

Curving the base
This might be tricky as there are actually four webs for 2/3 thirds of the base.
Allthough the webs are thin they are quite strong in the plane that we want to curve, so more than just the outer web might need cutting.
The area where the cast rossing is located might be problematic. Might need to keep this intact and cut both inner and outer webs, leaving the middle web alone?

Tom,
What curvature are you aiming for?
Steve

 

[Tom King]

Thanks Steve. I am only after a gentle curve. I think it is about 100 inch radius there, and away from the turnout side. Yes I had thought I would leave the area around the crossing alone.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Curving the base
This might be tricky as there are actually four webs for 2/3 thirds of the base.
Although the webs are thin they are quite strong in the plane that we want to curve, so more than just the outer web might need cutting.
The area where the cast crossing is located might be problematic. Might need to keep this intact and cut both inner and outer webs, leaving the middle web alone?

@Steve_Cornford @Tom King

On the prototype, curving takes place along the shorter of the two crossing rails. That means leaving those webs only, and depending on the direction of curving, removing (not just cutting) all the other webs (marked red):

In Templot, to simplify the geometry, curving takes place along the centre-line of the main road, regardless of which crossing rail is the shorter. I did suggest to Wayne that a web along the centre of the main road would be helpful (it all gets lost under the ballast). He didn't do that, so the next best fit to a Templot template would be to alternate web removal along each side of the main road (leave green, remove red):

That does make it more difficult to align the base to a smooth curve.

Otherwise, the only way to get a perfect match to the Templot templates is to cut the bases into individual timbers. However, for all but the sharpest curves the above web removal would be close enough.

It will make the base quite flimsy, so it needs to be stuck to the template for assembly.

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

I started with an OO-SF B7 turnout template (as supplied by Wayne)
I clicked on the [curve] button to apply a curve of 2400mm (this became TL001).
I then used the Util > Dummy vehicle to add a couple of dummy vehicles.
I clicked on [crossover] button and having accepted default track centres off 44.67mm found that I needed to increase this to 46mm so that the dummy vehicles easily passed each other.
I then saved this new template (TL002)
I drew some background lines on TL002 showing where there is a web on two outer timbers.

Martin,
Am I right in describing TL001 as curving towards the Tunnout Side (TS), and TL002 as curving away from the TS?

Before i remove any webs, am I right in thinking that your illustration applies to template TL002, and that for template TL001 because it curves the opposite way I need to swap your red & green lines round?

So far all I have done is painted & polished the cast crossing vees.

Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Image of webbing at timbers S9 and S10, mobile phone has a mind of its own when focusing despite AF lock!

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford @Wayne Kinney

Hi Steve,

TL001 has "similar flexure" and the radius shows as positive in Templot.

TL002 has "contraflexure" and the radius shows as negative in Templot.

You can think of them as curving towards or away from TS if you prefer.

Before I remove any webs, am I right in thinking that your illustration applies to template TL002, and that for template TL001 because it curves the opposite way I need to swap your red & green lines round?

My diagram refers to a straight turnout before curving, and there is no obvious reason why it needs to change according to the direction of curving. But over to you to find the optimum way of doing it. A lot depends on the severity of the curve. For a gentle curve it's probably not too fussy how many webs you remove or where.

What does change of course is that the webs must be removed on the side where the timbers close up a bit, and can be simply cut through on the side where the timbers separate a bit.

It would have been 10 times easier if Wayne had run a web down the centre of the main road as I suggested. You could then remove all the other webs, and it would match the curved Templot templates exactly regardless of the amount or direction of curving. But he has to weigh up making the kits most useful for trackbuilders, against the easy-peasy shake-the-box appeal for Peco track users (who tend not to use Templot anyway).

And not all users will be interested in matching Templot templates, a lot of them will simply want to curve it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

I believe Wayne has aligned the webs (apart from S9 & S10) along the path of feeding the rails though the chairs for maximum strength.
I will take your advice and stick the base down onto a template before feeding the rails.
Steve

 

[stick]

I was planning to use the Finetrax 00-SF A5 turnout kit. However when I looked at (what I assume is the correct) Templot control template (BH 00-SF REA semi-curved A + V-5 LH generic crossing), I got a warning that the smallest radius is 715 mm , which is less than the recommended minimum of 750 mm for 00-SF. Have I got the correct template, and if so, does this mean that I shouldn't use this kit?. Slightly confused.

 

[Phil O]

Hi Stick,

Welcome to Templot. Will your rolling stock go around a 715mm radius curve? If the answer is yes, you don't have a problem. The Templot radius warnings are a guide, they are not definitive.

 

[stick]

Hi Stick,

Welcome to Templot. Will your rolling stock go around a 715mm radius curve? If the answer is yes, you don't have a problem. The Templot radius warnings are a guide, they are not definitive.

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your reply. My rolling stock and locos (6 coupled) will go round 16.5 mm gauge 715 mm (Peco bullhead streamline) no problem. Unfortunately, since ready made 16.2 mm gauge plain track doesn't seem to exist, I can't readily test whether the gauge narrowing will make a crucial difference. I guess I should hand make some 16.2 mm gauge track to make sure, which I can do. I was just hoping someone might know......

 

[Hayfield]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your reply. My rolling stock and locos (6 coupled) will go round 16.5 mm gauge 715 mm (Peco bullhead streamline) no problem. Unfortunately, since ready made 16.2 mm gauge plain track doesn't seem to exist, I can't readily test whether the gauge narrowing will make a crucial difference. I guess I should hand make some 16.2 mm gauge track to make sure, which I can do. I was just hoping someone might know......

It will also depend on how much sideways movement has been built into the chassis itself, plus what size of locos you will be running

 

[Martin Wynne]

I was planning to use the Finetrax 00-SF A5 turnout kit. However when I looked at (what I assume is the correct) Templot control template (BH 00-SF REA semi-curved A + V-5 LH generic crossing), I got a warning that the smallest radius is 715 mm , which is less than the recommended minimum of 750 mm for 00-SF. Have I got the correct template, and if so, does this mean that I shouldn't use this kit?. Slightly confused.

@stick @Wayne Kinney

Hi,

Welcome to Templot Club.

This is all a bit confusing. Only Wayne can provide a definitive answer about his kits, and only you know what radius your models will go round.

It's confusing because:

1. we don't know if Wayne has included any gauge-widening in the kit.

2. no download template is available for the Finetrax 00-SF A-5 kit. The template on the download link on the web site is actually the same one as for the Standard 00 16.5mm A-5 kit. 00-SF 16.2mm turnouts are a fraction shorter than Standard 00 for the same turnout size, so in theory the kit won't match the template (unless a different one is included in the kit).

3. as far as I know Wayne has used regular V-crossings in all his kits. This means that the short lengths of wing rail beyond the knuckle break are straight. I'm puzzled why you think the V-crossing is generic, which would cause those rails to be curved as far as the fine-point?

4. on the Standard 00 A-5 template the dimension across the J2.. X8 timbers is shown as 227.47mm. Assuming Wayne is in fact using a Templot template, this can only be arrived at in 16.5mm gauge by using a regular V-crossing and a crossing-flangeway of 1.25mm, i.e. the 00-BRMSB standard in Templot. Which I find surprising because I understood that he was using the 00-D0GAI standard (1.20mm crossing-flangeway) for his Standard 00 kits (and stated on the web site). The difference is admittedly tiny.

5. assuming the 00-SF kits are indeed 16.2mm with 1.0mm flangeway, and are using a regular V-crossing with the default crossing entry straight, the actual turnout radius is 597mm (24"):

That is indeed on the tight side for un-gauge-widened 16.2mm, but it depends on your actual models as Phil and John have said. If such turnouts were being hand-built there are various ways of easing the radius in addition to gauge-widening. For example using loose-heel switch geometry instead of the REA A-switch, shortening the crossing entry straight, etc. Unfortunately with a fixed kit you don't have such options, but Wayne may have included some mitigations in the design. If a template is included in the kit, what is the length dimension shown on it?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Michael Woods]

After all the arguments and hot air on RMweb 10 years ago, and far beyond anything I dreamed of when I added 00-SF to the Templot gauge list 20+ years ago, today we have the release of a superb 00-SF turnout kit from @Wayne Kinney :

View attachment 1777

From: https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-00sf-b7.htm

More: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...ointwork-kits/&do=findComment&comment=4526434

It's so sad that Gordon didn't live to see this day, because he would have been delighted. He was a prime advocate of 00-SF, with many following in his footsteps.

Martin.

Martin - these look great and it is interesting to see how they assemble.