00 track gauge

[gt40driver]

Hello all. Im new to templot and have a number of questions re the software which is brilliant. I am wondering what gauge I should use for standard oo gauge trains that I have mainly bachmann. There are many to choose from 00-sf at 16.2mm and the remainder are 16.5mm called oo-dogai, oo-dogaf, 00-bf, oo-brmsf and oo/ho. Thanks Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@gt40driver

Hi Martin,

Welcome to Templot Club.

If you are starting 00 track building from scratch, there are 2 basic options, 00-BF and 00-SF.

00-BF is the traditional 00 gauge standard which will run all your Bachmann models without any problems. Including around sharp curves. Such models are fitted with "RTR wheels" which are about 2.8mm wide.

However, if you build any 00 gauge wagon or coach kits, they will probably be supplied with "Kit wheels" which are narrower, usually 2.3mm wide. You will find that they run quite bumpily through 00-BF V-crossings (frogs), falling a little way into some of the gaps in rails. You could solve this by discarding the supplied kit wheels and obtaining Bachmann or Hornby wheels for them instead.

The alternative is 00-SF which has narrower gaps in the rails at the V-crossings. Kit wheels will run very smoothly on 00-SF. The vast majority of Bachmann models will also run well on 00-SF, but you might find an occasional pair of wheels which needs some adjustment to the back-to-back dimension between the wheels, needing some slight widening.

The narrower gaps in 00-SF also give the track a better appearance, being closer to the appearance of real track.

You can't use 00-SF for very sharp curves, such as those found in typical clip-together set-track. However, 00-BF and 00-SF pointwork can be mixed together on the same layout, so if your model railway space requires some sharp curves in one place you could use 00-BF there and 00-SF everywhere else.

In summary, if you intend to use only ready-to-run models from Bachmann, Hornby, etc., you would probably want to use 00-BF for simplicity. If you like building your own kits and models, you might want to try 00-SF for smoother running and better appearance.

Precision gauge tools for building 00-SF pointwork are available from C&L. Gauges for 00-BF are available from several suppliers, but not always with great precision. When building 00-BF it is a good idea to use the 15.2mm check-gauge tools from 00-SF instead (the dimension is the same for both, but the precision might not be).

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edit: if building 3D plug track you do not need gauge tools. This also means you could try some of the other options such as these which will all accept a mix of kit wheels and RTR wheels. As you go down this list, the running quality of kit wheels decreases, but there is more tolerance on varying RTR wheel back-to-backs:

00-SF

00-MF

00-IF

00-BF if only RTR wheels are used.

for all of those the check gauge is 15.2mm, and check gauge tools for the purpose are available from C&L and DCC Concepts. (not needed for plug track.)

All these can be mixed on the same layout because the check gauge for all them is the same - 15.2mm.

---

Many Templot users are building 00-SF track and will be happy to add their help and advice here. Just ask.

The other 00 gauges are historical variations on 00 gauge which can be ignored if starting from scratch. 00-DOGAF should be avoided because your Bachmann models will not run on it without modification. 00/H0 is a match for older train sets and models from the 1950s and 60s which are popular with collectors.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[gt40driver]

Hi Martin

Thanks for all that information and your time putting on the forum greatly appreciated.
Do people build whole track layouts using templot or can it be a mix with commercially available track ?

Regards Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@gt40driver

Hi Martin,

People do all sorts of things!

Not many build plain track from scratch, it's a lot of work on a large layout. Usually they would build all the pointwork from Templot plans, but use plastic flexi-track for the plain track.

Not many would mix hand-built pointwork with ready-made pointwork such as Peco. They might mix it with the Finetrax kits which are available in 00-SF and Standard 00. If you have never built track before, a Finetrax kit might be a good way to get a feel for it:

https://www.britishfinescale.com/category-s/1853.htm

All the above applies to bullhead track (BH), and indeed the vast majority of hand-built model track building is in bullhead rail. The present day UK railway still has quite a lot of bullhead track in yards, sidings, and lesser-used lines. But modern fast running lines use flat-bottom rail (FB) instead. You can design FB track in Templot, but the model construction materials and tools are not so readily available.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[gt40driver]

I built a points set years ago just to show a model train. I used copper clad strip and soldered the track to the strip. I see that the british finescale have set points and are made so that the rails are just slid to the timbers with the rail clamps pre set to the timbers. Do they do kits that can be made to your own design using templot? I can't see that option on the website.
Martin

 

[Martin Wynne]

@gt40driver @Wayne Kinney

Hi Martin,

So much to explain to someone starting from scratch!

The rail in the Finetrax kits is bullhead rail, inserted in a 3D-printed track base.

The clamps are called bullhead chairs. They are made in cast iron and screwed or bolted to the timbers. The rail is held in them using wedges called keys, inserted on the outside of the rail. Keys were traditionally solid wood, but later made of folded spring steel.

A noticeable feature of bullhead track is that the rail is lifted above the timbers by the thickness of the base of the chair, which is a hefty 1.3/4" (45mm). This means that even when the ballast is level with the tops of the timbers, there is still plenty of daylight visible between the underside of the rail and the ballast.

Here is a bit of typical traditional bullhead track with different types of chairs, and some wooden keys and some steel (and some missing). This is the type of track represented by the Finetrax kits:

The Finetrax kits are based on Templot designs. At present they are available in one size only at 1:7 angle. If you were to design a track plan in Templot using all 1:7 turnouts and crossings you could use the Finetrax kits to build it. The kits are made straight, but can be curved if required during assembly.

However, most track plans would use more than one size of turnouts and crossings, typically in the range 1:5 (short turnouts for yards and sidings) to 1:10 or more (long turnouts for fast running lines). Wayne Kinney is planning to add further sizes to the Finetrax range in due course, but they are not yet available.

Other sizes of kits are available from C&L, but they are more expensive and require a lot more work to build.

If designing your own track plan without regard to any available kits, you would likely end up with numerous non-standard sizes and curved crossings. For example a 1:7.5 diamond-crossing on a curve, or a 1:4.75 curved outside slip, such as this sort of thing:

It's extremely unlikely that a kit would ever be available for something exactly like that. But it allows you to fit your railway with smooth flowing curves into your available space, which is why many modellers enjoy building track from scratch on Templot designs. Using kits is generally quick and easy, but it limits your design possibilities and often requires extra space.

But there is no reason not to mix kit-built track with hand-built track. This would let you get started much more quickly, and it is always encouraging to get something running as soon as you can.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield]

I built a points set years ago just to show a model train. I used copper clad strip and soldered the track to the strip. I see that the british finescale have set points and are made so that the rails are just slid to the timbers with the rail clamps pre set to the timbers. Do they do kits that can be made to your own design using templot? I can't see that option on the website.
Martin

A word of warning, building turnouts and crossings can become addictive.

Most modern RTR stock will work on 00SF

British Finescale turnout kits are a great introduction to track building and show how wrong most RTR track looks

Like all things (using Templot and track building) start with something simple and gradually build up your skills

Good luck, but more importantly enjoy yourself

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Hello all. Im new to templot and have a number of questions re the software which is brilliant. I am wondering what gauge I should use for standard oo gauge trains that I have mainly bachmann. There are many to choose from 00-sf at 16.2mm and the remainder are 16.5mm called oo-dogai, oo-dogaf, 00-bf, oo-brmsf and oo/ho. Thanks Martin.

Hi,
Given your location there are a few clubs nearby who might be able to help. Warrington MRC meet on a Monday Evening, as does Mid-Cheshire MRS though I believe they are trying to sort out some new premises and of course you are nice and handy if you need some of Dave Fentons, Megapoints products.

 

[gt40driver]

Think I will have to visit a few clubs. Im sure it will help me go in the right direction. Like the idea of P4 but not sure about converting loco's which doesn't look too straight forward. Probably going to stick with 00. I'm still not sure how to attack making points that look realistic when made. Thinking a mix of some copper strip and wooden timbers. Not sure which chairs to use and can they be glued to copper strip to keep the realistic look after soldering the rails.

This is a slip I made a few years ago to display a loco. Really enjoyed making them from templot.

Thanks for all the advice gentlemen.
Martin.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Good Morning,
It is not easy adding chairs to already built copperclad timbers because the rail should be held clear of the timbers.
If you want to go down the plastic chair route then have a look at either EM Gauge Society or Scalefour even if you decide to stick with 00 because you can only get Exactoscale chairs from them. Exactoscale have by far the biggest range of special chairs needed for pointwork.

If you want to keep with soldered track, have a look at the etched brass items from Masokits.

 

[Trevor]

Hello,
An alternative to copper-clad timbers would be Plywood timbers and rivets.Thin timbers preferably Mark the timbers where the rail passes over then punch holes for the rivets. Then fit and punch the rivets in place.You can then solder the rail and or fit plastic chairs that can be seen from the viewing side only after fastening the timbers down to the plan. You can actually purchase hole punch pliers to punch the correct size holes by hand on ebay etc. Rivets and timbers are available at the Scalefour group or the EM-gauge society. Both require membership.
I think they both provide press tools for hole punching and rivet pressing along with crossing jigs etc.
Regards.
Trevor

 

[Phil O]

Hi,

I use C & L chairs on Ply sleepers and timbers, glued with Plastic Weld. The joint is easily broken, by slipping a scalpel blade, under the chair and remaking it. I use etch fret, to make up common crossings and half chairs to cosmetically finish the job. Before adding the half chairs, I put the crossing dropper in.

 

[LittleWestern]

Hi,

I use C & L chairs on Ply sleepers and timbers, glued with Plastic Weld. The joint is easily broken, by slipping a scalpel blade, under the chair and remaking it. I use etch fret, to make up common crossings and half chairs to cosmetically finish the job. Before adding the half chairs, I put the crossing dropper in.

Hi @Phil O

Which etch fret are you using for common crossing and half chairs? I've seen word of MasoKits bras sets but am yet to bite the bullet on the GWR turnout sets from his catalogue.

@gt40driver, welcome to Templot! I myself have spent far too much time attempting to learn Templot while getting back to the hobby and as of yet am still to make any turnouts! (due to lack of readily available supplies and life blockers) I think in the forum you will find a plethora of useful informational and people willing to help. I myself have seemed quite annoying with my questions and as of yet have not been sent packing
The turnout you created some years ago looks fantastic! I see you are looking into combining copper clad and wooden timbers to allow use of chairs during your creation, this is pretty much how I want to tackle turnouts combining C&L/Exactoscale/Modelu plastic printed chairs and some etched frets for the special ones (as I am building GWR some of these chairs are less readily available that others).
I suggest books! Books are your friends when it comes to trackwork and chairing! It has helped me alot with understanding real world construction and, i hope, allowed me to create a better plan for tackling it. The proof will be in the pudding as they say.

Anyway, good luck and I look forward to your journey!

James

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Hello,
An alternative to copper-clad timbers would be Plywood timbers and rivets.Thin timbers preferably Mark the timbers where the rail passes over then punch holes for the rivets. Then fit and punch the rivets in place.You can then solder the rail and or fit plastic chairs that can be seen from the viewing side only after fastening the timbers down to the plan. You can actually purchase hole punch pliers to punch the correct size holes by hand on ebay etc. Rivets and timbers are available at the Scalefour group or the EM-gauge society. Both require membership.
I think they both provide press tools for hole punching and rivet pressing along with crossing jigs etc.
Regards.
Trevor

The punches have only been available secondhand for quite sometime, as and when they come up but not to worry, just use the correct size drill, preferably in a pillar drill, to make the holes and squeeze the rivets with a pair of parallel pliers. I understand that there are two sizes of rivets EM and P4, I have only used the P4 ones. If you intend to use Flexitrack for the plain track, be aware that getting hold of thin sleepered track is getting difficult, the trend is towards scale thickness, so you'd want to use point timbers to suit.

However you will still have the onerous task of fitting the chairs around the rivets, perhaps only every 4th sleeper? just using the chairs on the others. Frankly why bother with them on anything other than pointwork? Useful on slide chair locations (Scalefour sell Bill Bedfords etch for the slide part), though not GWR pattern.

 

[Phil O]

I save the etch fret from kits, normally around 10 or 12 thou thick, I reduce the width to about 2mm if necessary. I use it over length and the trim and file it back to the foot of the rail. I use standard 3 bolt chairs, which I cut in half and the file back the rail seat until the key sits against the rail web.

I can't find the original pictures, but if you take a look at my trainset build on Western Thunder and scroll down to the May posts, you can see, how I go about it. Some of the pictures will make photographers wince.

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/pottery-quay-em-test-track-shunting-plank.7735/

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

I use C & L chairs on Ply sleepers and timbers, glued with Plastic Weld. The joint is easily broken, by slipping a scalpel blade, under the chair and remaking it. I use etch fret, to make up common crossings and half chairs to cosmetically finish the job. Before adding the half chairs, I put the crossing dropper in.

An alternative (cheaper) is Butanone (MEK), in the UK you can easily source it on Ebay.

 

[LittleWestern]

An alternative (cheaper) is Butanone (MEK), in the UK you can easily source it on Ebay.

Butanone is what I plan to use for my chair adhesive alas, for plywood obtaining 1.5mm thickness in Slovakia (where i live) is akin to rocking horse droppings without being charged through the nose on postage

 

[Phil O]

An alternative (cheaper) is Butanone (MEK), in the UK you can easily source it on Ebay.

I bought a 2 1/2 litre bottle of dichloromethane, which is what plastic weld is, for less than £20 delivered about 15 years ago, I don't think it will run out, before I curl up my tootsies, or stop modelling. I have even passed some on to fellow club members.

 

[Hayfield]

, be aware that getting hold of thin sleepered track is getting difficult, the trend is towards scale thickness, so you'd want to use point timbers to suit.

Both C&L and SMP/Marcway sell thin base flexitrack

C&L sell both thick and thin base flexi track in EM and P4 gauges, I think now only thick based 00 gauge track

SMP sell thin base flexitrack in 00. EM &P4 gauges, You may have to buy in packs of 10.

Quite often thin based track comes up on eBay