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  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

5 way switch just for the fun

Quick reply >
Sometimes you need to escape a busy life.
So i run into this interesting topic about a switch on the old forum:
http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=1880&
play-a-game.jpg


See the box file.

Starting was a 1:15 switch that was made into a single sided 3 way.
I did this two times, a left and a right hand.
I let them overlap.
I deleted all the timbering to get a better overall view to create a png file in detail mode.
And one with some timbering for a overlapping png file.
I will turn both into a stl file and post that one as well, it will take some adjustments to get it in a good working order.
but if i am going to make one?
Probably yes, just for the fun.
And if i make one it will be somewhere "semi functional" on a fiddle yard.

With best regards Igor
 

Attachments

  • 5way.box
    125 KB · Views: 217
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message ref: 1311
Hi Tony,
The most of the time/work for me will be the making of the stl file.
You did a good job, thanks.
Do you have more of those odd idea's?

Changes are 90% sure i am going to build it functional two times.
For in the garden as a parking lot.

I have a feeling some of those are also your idea:
#6 Double Slipover.jpg
s-l1600 (1).jpg

s-l1600.jpg


The next one i found on a youtube channel, with a fun fact:
I was looking for turnout sets used in Dutch stations.
This set is used widly on the most great stations of the Netherlands.
The person who made this one was replicating Utrecht central station 1930-1940.
I must make this one 6 times for my Amsterdam central station.

maxresdefault (1).jpg


So a lot of practising needed, i dont think i am doing it wrong :cool: so far for now.

If you would like to share a close up of the toes/point in the beginning of the switch i would appreciated that very much.
I am in doubt to make it from aluminium or 3d print the points.
Both have equal great advantages and great disadvantages.

Thanks for putting it out, with best regards Igor

Ps the one i am making is going to be around 1 meter 90.
I dont think it is possible to create a 7 way switch due to lack of space.
If needed it can be done by placing the points after the last frog and start a new one sided 3 way not a 5 way?
 
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message ref: 1313
Hi Igor.
Some interesting formations there, I admire your ambition.
I have been asked before if I thought it possible to have more than 5 exit roads from a single turnout, but came to the conclusion it was unlikely for several reasons. The main one being insufficient space for extra switches between crossings. Also for every additional road the number of crossings increases rapidly. 1 for two roads, 3 for three roads, 6 for four roads, 10 for 5 roads, 15 for six roads and 21 for 7 roads. Making 10 crossings with all the differing angles was bad enough. Finally the decrease in radius of the outer roads may also be impractical. It seems to me that with mans ingenuity, if it were possible, someone, somewhere would have done it.
At present, the layout is in storage, so I can't take any new pictures, I'm afraid.

One formation I once considered but gave up on as impractical was in effect a scissors arrangement with 2 roads at one end and 3 roads at the other with access from either of the 2 to any of the 3, so what you have in effect is two scissors crossovers superimposed on each other. It got very messy very quickly.
Regards
Tony.
 
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message ref: 1314
Hmm 6 hours, yes i call this one difficult...(time consuming)
Next Sunday the safety rails and the frogs.(educated guess 6 hours)
I need a other hour to shift the timbering in there correct places, due to the frogs.
Check clearance for the back of the flange and flange drive way, if neccecery i must adjust, to MY standards so prototypical and not mra1 or something...
Cut out the rails, group frogs, convert into stl file (educated guess 4 hours)
Print piece by piece
Than a good Sunday to make the tracks incl grinding point work...(educated guess 8 hours)
Still must make a decision according to do what with the frogs, let the alu strip run thru or some will be in abs.
According to the length of the frogs i think i will make it alu strip.

Enjoy:
Schermafbeelding 2021-05-02 184104.png

One formation I once considered but gave up on as impractical was in effect a scissors arrangement with 2 roads at one end and 3 roads at the other with access from either of the 2 to any of the 3, so what you have in effect is two scissors crossovers superimposed on each other. It got very messy very quickly.
My technical English is not so good on this subject.
I made and completed a scissors crossover couple of weeks/months ago that was a bit to small for me to use on my main line.
Center to center was 125 mm and i need 150mm plus it was 4.60 radii and i would like to have them at minimum 8 meter radii.
1:7.5 is to short...the more i learn....sigh :(

Can you please make a drawing of what you mean?
Cous i dont have any idea/clue of what you are referring to, sorry.
Wild geuss: instead of a ordinarily diamond a double slip?
A quick set of lines on paper or what ever, i am very curios.
Could mean a other relaxing project for me.
In the mean time i am 3 days behind my study....

The main one being insufficient space for extra switches between crossings.
Thats why i stated after the last frog, even if yoy would make them 1:60 you would not have the room for other toes/points.
Finally the decrease in radius of the outer roads may also be impractical. It seems to me that with mans ingenuity, if it were possible, someone, somewhere would have done it.
Yes the decrease will go up exponentially...can be fixed with longer turnouts---->room, better is to connect several normal turnouts and a double slip.
But it can be done with some trouble and not a smooth ride! and the wheels would need bigger wheel bearing surface.

With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1315
Something like this?
I think it is possible but indeed really messy and not practical.
And i dont think there will be a good operation on it.
Or would you ever find this in the prototypical world
A better solution would be a 3way with the points to the points of a half dubble slip?

That 5 way there must be one in use somewhere in Germany, you have any idea where or pictures?
Thanks for your thoughts
 
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message ref: 1331
Hi Igor.
This is the picture I found on the internet of what I believe is the German 5 way turnout in a museum somewhere.
I will do a drawing of what I was meaning for the other design.
Regards
Tony.
 

Attachments

  • 5 Way.bmp
    2.3 MB · Views: 235
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message ref: 1347
Here is a quick Templot sketch of the plan. The idea was for an island platform terminus with a storage siding between the running lines using third rail electric trains. It doesn't actually look so impossible in Templot as when I tried to draw it out with pen and paper all those years ago.
Regards
Tony.
2 into 3.JPG
 
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message ref: 1348
This is a very nice one.
I am struggling atm with making a y switch.
And connecting two opposite pieces together.
Schermafbeelding 2021-05-07 175631.png



It is going to massive, it is going to reach a 4 meter in length and 45 ish cm wide. my printer can not handle this(max 35cm).
Perfect excuse to modify my printer or buy a cr10 (50x50)and modify that one....to 100x50cm

The 5 way switch is sliced and ready for printing btw :cool:
Thanks in advance, best
 
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message ref: 1349
Hi Igor.
The way I did it was to set the track spacing for the two outer tracks and create crossovers and then set the track spacing for half that and create the crossovers for the middle track after putting the point blades where I wanted them.
Regards
Tony.
 
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message ref: 1367
Ah yes...
I toke the difficult route, never the less, i succeed.

If i am going to make this one, it will be ~100 cm longer
With p-32(1:32 scale) a meter is nothing.
Thanks.
 

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  • 2 to 3 1500.box
    225.6 KB · Views: 191
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message ref: 1369
The printing is done.
The 5way needed to be a bit longer total length 2 meter 45.
I also mis counted with slicing, that piece still need to be printed.
For the show i put in some scrap aluminium strips.
Where there is a piece laying flat on the sleepers there the first points will start.
20210530_150034.jpg

20210530_150052.jpg

20210530_150121.jpg

20210530_150103.jpg

20210530_150148.jpg


Thanks Tony W for this great idea.
I hope it will do after i am finessed what i expect it to do---->trouble free.

With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1589
I started building, but i must admit due to his length it is a different cookie to eat...(2 meter 45)
Indeed my "gut feeling": lets play a game....has a loaded meaning.
The main problem i run into is the unsupported length of the point, very difficult to work with or create.
"Stress test/weight bearing" (standing strait up)i am not so afraid for, but it can tilt/flip if you know what i mean.
Probably i will make two connections/bars( i lost the name for this piece) that hold the points in position.
For the next one with a similar length i will keep the points shorter.
Meaning that i must redesign a piece of the 5way switch.
Now this one has a real nice learning curve, almost perfect.
I am also considering to create a connection/bar "stand alone" on a sliding plate, to give it more rigidness.

I hope my story makes any sense, and you understand the problems i encounter at the moment....
But for every solution we have a problem :ROFLMAO:

Also this 5way switch is a non practical eye catcher, more practical would be 3 3way switches built in together.
It will be shorter and in the same amount of space with the same radii (9 meters)you will gain 2 extra "parking lanes".
Never the less, this is a real fun project with a fun learning exercise to do, thank you again Tony W

With best regards Igor.

Sorry for the goof up of determine the right names for certain parts, had a very busy and stressful 2 weeks..
 
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message ref: 1663
Hi Igor

I think that I can understand where you're coming from in a turnout that is around 8 feet long in old English money. What is the width over the outer most rails at the heel end of the turnout?.

Phil.
 
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message ref: 1664
Some progress on the 5way.
I toke my arbore press into the shed to make it myself easy:
Thanks to the person that pointed me into this direction to use/make a jig like this, i dont remember who it was, sorry.
20210605_185518.jpg
20210605_185608.jpg
20210605_185623.jpg

I also changed my jig saw setup:
20210605_185948.jpg
20210605_184820.jpg
20210605_185010.jpg

Cous the switch blades are just to long.

20210605_185726.jpg

20210605_185643.jpg

20210606_191529.jpg
20210606_191604.jpg
20210606_191507.jpg
20210606_191645.jpg


The boogie you see is my testing boogie, it is exact 44mm (all my boogies are 44mm btw) from flange to flange and the gauge is 45mm,.
So i have 0.5mm clearance between each flange and rail times 32 = to big to get it prototypical correct = 1.6 cm = 0.6 cm in proto to big :cool:

Smooth running so far.
So i changed the frogs again for better looking/appearance better running better building and more firm
Next week i hope i have the time to create the points/switch blades.
Yes this is one sweet but tough cookie with a bonus on learning experience.
Practice makes better.

Some stats:
1.5 kilo abs.
~70 hours printing
And so far 17.50 meters of aluminium strip is in it.

Thanks for reading, with best regards Igor
 

Attachments

  • 20210606_191627.jpg
    20210606_191627.jpg
    1.9 MB · Views: 186
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message ref: 1676
Hi Igor.
That is looking seriously impressive. I must say I never expected to see another 5 way especially at such a large scale.
Nice to know I'm not the only one barmy enough to attempt such things. Love your wing rail bending setup.
Best wishes
Tony.
 
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message ref: 1696
HI Igor,

I did answer your post from last Sunday but in doing attachments I seem to have failed
to get it to register properly on the forum. It did appear for a while without the pictures but
then disappeared.

Anyway I assumed you were talking about the moving rails of the turnout/points/lead/ being the
switch rails. The joining bars between them are referred to as stretcher bars in English.
You can have more than two stretcher bars on long switch rails.

The machining of the switch rail is designed to give support along the length of the contact area
with the stock rail. The lack of a foot with the metal strip you are using will make that harder
to replicate.

The other thing used in real life to hold the switch rails to gauge are 'switch stops' and
'gauge pins/stud bolts' or 'gauge/distance blocks'.

Switch stops are mounted on the switch rails and project out so that when the blade is up against
the stock rail and carrying the load of the passing train they bear against the stock rail web thus
resisting the outward movement of the switch rails and therefore changing the gauge.

Gauge pins work the same way but are mounted on the stock rail instead. The NSWGR used a cotter
bolt to hold the stock rail to the slide chair and the gauge stop was just an extended version of that.
The same for the English stud bolt except they seemed to prefer a threaded bolt.
The English used the gauge/distance block on bull head rail to maintain the lateral resistance till they
had clearance to fully chair the switch rail. The blocks were cast iron and held in place by an extended
stock rail bolt which was recessed into the bearing face of the block.

Hope this is useful information to help you overcome your lateral and twist movement issues.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1735
It looks great. what is the reason for using Ali strip with the rails let into grooves in the sleepers? The only time I've seen something similar is on the metre gauge TTA SNCV in Belgium where the rails are "standard" flat bottom rail, but the sleepers have wide slots cut in them at an angle to tilt the rails in. Usually the rail chair would provide that angle for the running rails.
 
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message ref: 1777
Hi Roy,

Cutting the seat to hold the rail in the top of a sleeper, with or without a plate, is
more common than you think.

NSWGR Permanent Wag gangs had a simple device for adzing out the incline correctly.
This consisted of a U shaped length of rod with a plate set at the correct angle at each end.
This also gave the correct distance apart.

They actually had a number of these as all formations, (points, crossovers and de-railing
devices), and yard track had no inclination. Five sleepers from the formation the inclination
of the rail would be rotated by a few degrees per sleeper till vertical.

Also round topped sleepers had to be levelled off where the rail was fastened regardless
of whether there was a plate or not.

They were eventually supplied with a portable adzing machine which must have been a relief
as some of the timbers used were quite dense and hard to work.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1780
I think that I can understand where you're coming from in a turnout that is around 8 feet long in old English money. What is the width over the outer most rails at the heel end of the turnout?.
The heel end? i am sorry i can not do a proper translation (tried even with google)
But i think you mean the end of the turnout?
If not please tell me where to take a measurement(and what the heel is ;))
20210617_180014.jpg

20210617_175932.jpg

Thanks in advance with best regards, Igor
 
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message ref: 1787
The joining bars between them are referred to as stretcher bars in English.
You can have more than two stretcher bars on long switch rails.
20210617_171151.jpg


20210617_171237.jpg

20210617_171328.jpg

I think you are referring to something i already planed to do?
I could be wrong?
I am planning to make two bars at those two points, one of them is going to be the switch bar(pointing finger)
Yes sorry i still have to sand all the points.

Stretcher bars yes i was referring to switch rails, thanks

The other thing used in real life to hold the switch rails to gauge are 'switch stops' and
'gauge pins/stud bolts' or 'gauge/distance blocks'.

Switch stops are mounted on the switch rails and project out so that when the blade is up against
the stock rail and carrying the load of the passing train they bear against the stock rail web thus
resisting the outward movement of the switch rails and therefore changing the gauge.
I am going to sand them at the other side(instead of the inside), i agree, looks way better and is better for the rolling stock, smother running, i think.

Hope this is useful information to help you overcome your lateral and twist movement issues.
Very helpful and very wanted information for me! thanks again, please keep the info coming
With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1788
what is the reason for using Ali strip
If you are standing at 20-25 meters of height on a real station yard, you will see exactly the same in scale, and it is a factor 10 cheaper.
I really admire the people that are taking great lengths to mimic every chair screw nut fish plate ect, but for me that is a bridge to far(??for now!!).
I am planning t give the safety rails some extra support, because you see it from a distance.
You wont see the details at a 2 meters (standing)to 4 (to 6-8) meter distance(watching), just in real life at a 20 meters high scaffolding.
I posted pictures on this forum, you can find them on resources.
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?media/dsc00390-jpg.192/https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?media/page-4Was 15 meters in height max btw when the pic's where taking

I hope this will answer your question?, if not please let me know!
 
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message ref: 1789
They were eventually supplied with a portable adzing machine which must have been a relief
as some of the timbers used were quite dense and hard to work.
As a carpenter: yes it is/was a relief, i can imaging that one, there are some woods species, and dont forget the knots/branches in the wood...that will make work on it very difficult
If you can get some piece of iron wood, take your hand saw compare that to a soft wood(what ever hard wood btw), cutting length wise.
You want to know your wood? this is the way, saw it length wise with a hand saw...it will apply for all the woods

With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1790
Thanks Igor,

That's around 16 inches in our old measurements, that's a big WOW and I think it must be a bit unwieldy moving it around.

Thanks for sharing.

Phil.
 
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message ref: 1792
Hi Igor,

Just to start off.
This is a Victorian State Railways formation. Late 1940s I think.

The spreader bracket is also called a stretcher bar, connecting bar, connecting rod and gauge rod.
Victorian Railways Australia 16'-6%22 Right Hand 107 L.B. Points.jpg

Note the spreader bracket has a part that goes under the stock rail to inhibit lift in the switch rails.
This is more often seen in bars made from flat stock. I haven't seen any done that way with round bars.

Later stretcher bars have the flat rotated to a horizontal plane and a slot that catches a lug from the tie plate.
These are referred to as 'Slotted' stretcher bars. These do the same job to stop lift in the switch rails.

Sorry I don't have a good none copyright picture of any of these.

This is the stop bracket used by Vic Rail on this type of turnout.
Victorian Railway Australia Switch Blade Stops.jpg

These were mounted on the switch rail.

This is a 1922 NSWGR 60lb lead/points/turnout.
Standard 60 lb Points Australian Rail 1923.jpg

The heel of the switch is where it pivots from. The toe is the free end that moves inland out of contact with the stock rails.
Note this is a loose heel switch. The Heel chock sits behind the heel fishplate rather than being combined with it.
Note also the gauge stops and the heel stop that mount from the stock rail.

Cutting a flat into a sleeper fro hold either a flat bottom rail or a chair or plat is a common thing during certain
periods.

This would be from the 1860s. Double head rail chairs.
Lithgow Valley With double headed rail chairs cut into sleeoer tops as require at the time.jpg



This is a adzing gauge with no incline for those times you need to let into a sleeper for a plate which may or may not have inclination.
Adzing gauge with zero incline for setting plates into sleepers.jpg


The cutting requirements for the adzing machine.
Sleeper Sawing Adzing and Boring Machine composite of rail bases in correct position for gauge.jpg


This is only required on running lines. Formations and yards are vertical.
Showing the 1 in 20 cut in the sleeper for 70 lb and 60 lb Rails.jpg





Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1798
Matt,
Thank you very much for your replay, a lot of very good info.
This will keep me busy for the next couple of days (y)

Where do you find such info?

The heel blocks and the spreaders are going to be implemented.
I think the heel block is a key missing element that i really need for several reasons.

With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1801
Igor,

I find this information during research into drawings for the NSWGR.
Been doing it for 12 years mostly concentrating on the Mechanical Branch
which is locomotives and rolling stock. But in preparation for an S7 layout
that didn't eventuate I became very interested in the prototype's development
of permanent way.

Ruined looking at model railways because nothing looks right anymore.

Fishplate joined loose heel switch.
Fishplate joined loose heel switch.jpg



Heel Block joined loose heel switch.
Heel Block joined loose heel switch.jpg


The heel is still loose and is joined by a fishplate. Some of the later ones have a pivot pin under the switch rail as well.
Just like PECO.
Solid Heel Joint Plan View.jpg


Heel-less switches are different animals, but I don't think your aluminium strip would enjoy that much flexing.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1804
Hi Igor,

Glad the information is useful.

Something went slightly wrong with your translating or perhaps "spell check" strikes again.
I wasn't trying for satire so I think you were after 'satisfying' as opposed to 'satirising'.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1894
wasn't trying for satire so I think you were after 'satisfying' as opposed to 'satirising'.
Yes i saw my mistake,it was the spell check. (i was very tired and there was a red line)
I did not mean satire but satisfying!
Very sorry for the goof up.
I refuse to use google translate.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Your info is gold! to me.
Thanks

With best regards Igor
 
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message ref: 1899
Hi Igor,

No apology needed. Nor was it inconvenient. Just wondered.
You are doing better with English than I would translating from and into Dutch.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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message ref: 1901
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