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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

A sad post

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Martin Wynne

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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
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From: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/88437...mm-time-lucky/?do=findComment&comment=5110707

"You're not alone with Templot mate I have real trouble with it. I'm gonna need a left hand double junction myself in the not to distant future and I'm absolutely dreading it. I've just about managed to do a B8 but I had real problems as I have zero CAD skills to start with and whilst you don't need CAD skills to use Templot I find the whole thing confusing to say the least."

It's sad and unnerving to see something I've created regarded with dread. :(

The mystery is why use Templot at all if you don't enjoy it?

There is plenty of friendly help here for anyone who asks. For example, this video shows how to print a B-8 template in just a few clicks:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/your_first_printed_template.php

Martin.
 
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Martin,

The problem seems to be that most expect to open up Templot and produce their ultimate track plan on day one. I was prepared to put some effort in and it took me around three months of working through the tutorials, but what really helped me was when you started doing the videos, before it finally clicked, even now I occasionally go back to them, when I forget how to do something.

I'm also finding the zoom meetings useful, for learning the deeper recesses of Templot.

Many thanks for such a great program.
 
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Please not the following observations are in no way a criticism of the builder

One thing that concerns me is that the builder is using Exactoscale check rail chairs un-modified in 00 gauge. There is nothing wrong in using Exactoscale check rail chairs in any of the 4mm gauges, but I would strongly advise not to use them out of the box for anything other than P4 gauge

Firstly there are two types 0.68mm (standard) 0.8mm (gauge widened). For anything other than P4 I would use 0.8mm in a modified form

The stated gauge is 00 which I guess is 16.5 with 1.25 flangeways, therefore with 1.25 flangeways using the 0.8mm check rail chairs they are 0.45 too narrow. (The check rails should be set using a check rail gauge)

Looking at the gauges used, they are not 00SF

To me they look to be the earlier type sold as 00 gauge with 1mm flangeways. If this is the gauge is used to set the flangeways it will be to DOGA Fine gauge, also some of these gauges have the groove too narrow, holding the rail upright. There is a possibility the gauge will narrow (not a real issue with 00 gauge)

C&L now have new roller gauges in all gauges (00,EM & P4) where the gap is wide enough to allow the head to rotate, also they now sell proper 00 gauge roller gauges with 1.25mm flangeways. However the correct way to set check rails is to use a check rail gauge, C&L sell these in their 00SF range but is exactly the same for standard 00 gauge

There is nothing wrong using the Exactoscale 0.8mm check rail chairs in a modified form in EM or 00 gauges, infact your trackwork will look very much better using them rather than just chopping up standard chairs, I would always advise using the correct gauge when setting wing and check rails. Using these chairs unmodified in anything other than P4 gauge is asking for trouble

This is not a criticism of the builder as I am certain he has done everything in good faith. But with the suppliers of both Exactoscale and C&L products. (Phil at C&L has taken action on the gauges, but has no responsibility for actions prior to him taking over and for Exactoscale which he has nothing to do with)

I am an EMGS member and I see no warnings on the website in the use of Exactoscale check rail chairs they sell, presumably for use in both P4 & EM gauges. At least they advise and offer the full range of EM (and P4) gauges

The Exactoscale range of chairs is superb, but like everything if used incorrectly or in a way they were not designed to be used, it may cause issues.

Sorry for the rant and as I have said not a criticism of the builder and the postings, if anything shows a need for an 00 gauge hub of knowledge

EDIT

I have seen earlier on the use of 00SF roller gauges and wing rail gauges, the exact gauge I could not find stated in the text I read
 
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Last edited:
@Hayfield

Hi John,

Just to clarify that the track builder posting pictures of the roller gauges is not the same as the person referred to in my post above.

The track builder previously posted

this video

which he says is about conversion to 00-SF, but the roller gauges he is using appear to be DOGA-F which is definitely not 00-SF (and you can't convert to 00-SF without changing the track gauge).

After all these years of explaining 00-SF on RMweb over and over again, I'm just too weary of it all to do it yet again. :(

cheers,

Martin.
 
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I sometimes think that, newcomers to Templot, fear coming on here, incase they may get ridiculed. Which is further from the truth we all had to start somewhere. As far as I'm aware every newcomer has had a warm welcome and had their question or queries answered. Even now, I have to ask a question because I have forgotten something or didn't know how to do something in the first place.
 
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I have found over the years people can form a mental block on activities that either does not interest them or things they don't like. Then there are others who just totally lack any coordination where their mind seems to play tricks on them.

I for one enjoy using Templot but can only master the basics, firstly having a poor memory. Then not quite understanding some of the processes/tasks in the more technical processes required in the more involved areas

However on a basic level I could not think of an easier method of creating a template, its exactly the same as ordering a plan from a Society stores website

But this is nothing different to peoples views on any other subject. Completing and sending my tax return feels me with similar thoughts. When you look at it in the whole, its a massive document using many pages and it has to be done to a deadline.

However when I get down to it, most items do not need any actions by myself, most of the data needed has been collated automatically and pre-populated and the data input required is simple to complete, it takes far longer to open and close the application than to complete it. But it still fills me with dread.

The way to counter these issues is to show the world how easy it is to both create and print said B8 template in Templot
 
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@Hayfield

Hi John,

Just to clarify that the track builder posting pictures of the roller gauges is not the same as the person referred to in my post above.

The track builder previously posted

this video

which he says is about conversion to 00-SF, but the roller gauges he is using appear to be DOGA-F which is definitely not 00-SF (and you can't convert to 00-SF without changing the track gauge).

After all these years of explaining 00-SF on RMweb over and over again, I'm just too weary of it all to do it yet again. :(

cheers,

Martin.

Martin

I have watched some of the video, this must be a mk1 version or a test track, as only standard chairs and bridge chairs have been used, the check and flangeways may be oversize for 00BF, but its difficult to judge. On the plus side he looks to have made and printed a multi template plan
 
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The way to counter these issues is to show the world how easy it is to both create and print said B8 template in Templot
@Hayfield

Hi John,

I think this video does that:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/your_first_printed_template.php

But I'm not sure how to force people to watch it. :)

It's been on the web site for 7 years, and a similar one before it, with a link from the Templot home page:

home_page_video.png


I think perhaps I have reached a stage with Templot where I should simply ignore RMweb and other forums and Facebook groups, and just plod on with Templot in my own way.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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I agree with you, probably more have looked at this posting and taken notice of the throw away comment after you brought this to our attention
 
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Hello Martin,
I think you have the answer in your last post correct. Just keep plodding. There will always be people who do not make enough effort to learn or do things wherever you go.
Regards.
Trevor:)
 
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I think you have the answer in your last post correct. Just keep plodding. There will always be people who do not make enough effort to learn or do things wherever you go.
Hi Trevor,

I know. I'm not too bothered if they are unwilling to learn about Templot, although I would try to help them if they asked.

What I find upsetting is the effect their words might have on others. I don't know what I can do about that -- there is no way I can monitor every forum and web site and respond to every such post. Hopefully there are other Templot users who will see it and respond for me.

In one sense it doesn't matter. Templot is my hobby primarily for my own amusement. It's free for anyone else to use if they wish, and it makes no practical difference to me how many folks do or don't choose to do that. But it would be a shame if someone who would be able to make good use of it is turned away from trying it.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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@Hayfield hello John. he is modelling this in EM, so the chairs are correct.

Hopefully there are other Templot users who will see it and respond for me.
Yes, I did that but the offer was not seemingly taken up. I'm reasonably competent with Templot and encourage anyone to learn as I did- press buttons, see what they do.

I still think that the issue isn't with Templot itself but the complexity of real World track and if you can't master that then it's a case of nonsense in, nonsense out. I know if I were to look back at all my questions, both here and elsewhere, 99% of them are about understanding real World track, rather than how to replicate them in Templot.
 
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Speaking to someone at "the club" a while ago about Templot and track , he asked what I thought I knew about track. I said words to the effect of I'd been a guard on the Underground in the early 1970s when the guard rode in the back cab on certain trains, and a further 15 years on BR as a secondman then driver. It meant I didn't know much about track, but certainly know what it looks like!
 
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I'm in agreement with PhilO that a lot of modellers out there, for want of a better word, think that it'll be a breeze to design some track and then build a layout, without any knowledge of the prototype. I wouldn't start building a locomotive kit without doing some research on the class being modelled, and with Templot, it does take a while, along wth a learning curve to get to grips with the nitty gritty of how powerful a design tool it is for us. Compared to how it was back in 2000, Templot is actually easier to use to design complex formations, due to the ongoing development which Martin has brought to the table, and more enjoyable as well because of it. I gave up on RMWeb years ago to be honest as I found that site more frustrating than trying to find something worthwhile to watch on TV !

Anyway, I did come across this earlier today whilst looking for some other invoices......
20230610_131513.jpg

....and yes, still learning new things in Templot.

Ian
 
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