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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Building 3D track

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message ref: 2721
Hi, I have been watching this thread with interest over the past 6 months or so and have been experimenting with 3D printing and laser cutting, see latest results attached/below. I'm keen to create 3D CAD models of the various chairs so that I can resin print individual batches etc. I was wondering whether anyone had any 3D files of chairs they could share or dimensioned drawings from which I would create 3D models and then share in whatever format required?

I'm modelling 4mm with the intention of matching custom point work to Peco bullhead points and track.

Current process for timbers is to create plan within Templot, export 2D dxf timbers only, import dxf into AutoCAD, add positional sprues between timbers (to be removed later), send finished/block 2d dxf file to desktop laser cutter software and laser cut 1.6mm thick plywood.

templot post 02-01-2022.PNG


For Chairs I have managed to export 3D .stl files from Templot and successfully printed using Form3 resin printer but, I want to refine the chairs and create other chairs in a native 3D format. I can not modify .stl files and I have not been able to open/read any of the 3D dxf files out of Templot so, I was wondering whether another 3D format was available for the chairs e.g. step, .sat or .igs?

Terry
 
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message ref: 3452
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

Drawings of the standard REA chairs can be downloaded from:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?resources/rea-bullhead-track-drawings.12/

Note that there are drawings for both 85lb and 95lb rail, don't get them mixed up. For code 75 bullhead you want the 95lb rail (BS-95R).

It's good to see the Templot exports being put to good use (p.s. in your photo you have the chairs in the timbers the wrong way round :) ).

I notice that you have provided your own printing supports for the chairs. Templot can do that for you, see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...3d-printed-cnc-milled-laser-cut.229/post-2030

Timber webs under the rails can be difficult to remove without causing damage (the knife blade forces the timbers apart). Instead, Templot can add "sprues" to the ends of the timbers which are easily removed from track after laying, without damage (hold Xuron-type snips vertical):
View attachment 2927

View attachment 2928

To export the above, omit all the layers, and then switch back on just the 3 layers you want:

View attachment 2926

For the timber outlines and sockets Templot can set an allowance for the cutter kerf.

You should be able to open and edit the STL files in Fusion 360 (free for personal use). Or there are online converters to other formats.

The 3-D DXF files should open in any traditional CAD package -- I use TurboCAD.

For laser cutting use the 2-D DXF files, which can be opened in most CAD and drawing programs, such as Inkscape (free).

Sorry all this stuff is still extremely experimental in Templot and unfinished, and the docs have not yet been written (I'm not looking forward to doing that :( ). I'm currently working on the P slide chairs.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin, Thanks for the detailed sprue advise/suggestion. I'm happy with my latest test cut of 1.6mm thick plywood and just need to play around with the socket kerf and laser speed/power a little to get a snug fit with the resin chairs. Then I'm onto adjusting and printing Richard T's 3D chair files etc.

timber and sprue test.PNG


Terry
 
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message ref: 3502
Hi Martin,
I have created 3D models of all of the switch chairs from the 1928 pdf.
Chairs-S1-S1J-L1-P-2PRB-4PRB.PNG

before moving on to the crossing chairs, I have a query about the templot plug/hole features for 3PRB and 4PRB switch chairs. Templot shows 2 holes for 1&2PR chairs but only 1 hole for 3&4PR. is this intentional or just maybe because its still working progress? I will adjust the 2D dxf file accordingly to enable me to laser cut timbers and resin print chairs shortly for a full B switch build.
switch chair plug query.PNG

Terry.
 
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message ref: 4017
before moving on to the crossing chairs, I have a query about the templot plug/hole features for 3PRB and 4PRB switch chairs. Templot shows 2 holes for 1&2PR chairs but only 1 hole for 3&4PR. is this intentional or just maybe because its still working progress?
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

It's all still work in progress. In fact the whole thing is still work in progress and you shouldn't make any assumptions about any of the designs or dimensions remaining unchanged in future program updates. The plug and socket sizes can all be adjusted from the buttons on the DXF dialog.

For the switch block chairs, my intention is for the chairs to be made in two parts, and for each half of the chair to be plugged separately into the base with the rail. Likewise for the crossing chairs. This is the only way the vertical plugging process can work -- if a one-piece double chair is made the only practicable assembly process is to slide the rails in from the end. Which is feasible, just, for stand-alone turnouts but not for more complex pointwork formations.

Your chairs look great! Which rail section are they for? How have you modified the key dimensions to match the model rail?

I can't be sure, but looking at your keys I think you have made the same mistake as me, highlighted by @timbersgalore , see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.p...3d-printed-cnc-milled-laser-cut.229/post-2500

In order to print, the outer bottom face of the key needs to be horizontal (unless you are supporting the chairs differently for printing).

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4018
Hi Martin, I understand and agree with your logic regarding split switch block chairs for 3&4PR but, I think I'll try a one-piece chair for 1&2PR as they do not appear to have a fixed jaw on the inboard/moving rail face. That's assuming I've interpreted the 1928.pdf correctly. 1n2PR Chair.PNG
Regarding Rail/key dimensions, I have purchased some C&L stainless bullhead rail, taken measurements using vernier and micrometer and adjusted chair models to suit as shown. (I used a 2.75:1 or 19.98 degree fishing angle as it is near on impossible to measure determine exact angle, if any, on the supplied rail).
CnL BH dims with key.PNG1PR chair key n rail - end.PNG1PR chair key n rail - inboard side.PNG1PR chair key n rail - key side.PNG
I will resin print a few of each next week and adjust to suit etc. When I have achieved the desired fit then I will share sizes used etc.

I don't quite understand the comment about the key bottom face being horizontal unless we are assuming the C&L rail has no fishing angle in which case I think the keys will fit and clear any internal radii. Terry.
 
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message ref: 4020
I think I'll try a one-piece chair for 1&2PR as they do not appear to have a fixed jaw on the inboard/moving rail face.

I don't quite understand the comment about the key bottom face being horizontal unless we are assuming the C&L rail has no fishing angle in which case I think the keys will fit and clear any internal radii.
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

There is no inner jaw on that rail, but there is an outer jaw engaging the rail web. This means the rail cannot be plugged vertically straight down, and must be tucked in under the outer jaw. That will be tricky to do because the adjacent 3&4PR chairs will be aligned loosely in their sockets before pressing home, with the rail already in them. I fear a lot of broken 1&2PR chairs in the process if you make them in one piece.

But as always the proof of the pudding is in the result, so I will be interested to see how you get on.

As drawn the bottom part of the key will initially form a small unsupported "island" while resin-printing, unattached to the chair jaw. This is very likely to cause printing problems, but may not. Over to you to try it. :)

Terry, if you don't mind I'm going to move your posts about your 3D-printed track to a separate topic of their own. It's important to keep this topic about Templot's own plug track components to avoid confusing everyone even more than they are already. As you are using your own chair designs, they won't be directly compatible with the Templot exports and folks will be heading for problems if they start mixing them up. I haven't yet finalised the plug/socket design, which has to work not only on laser-cut timbers but also on FDM-printed timbering bases and on CNC-milled panels. There are also lots of minor detail differences -- for example Templot plug track uses vertical rail, so a direct copy from the 1928 chair drawings isn't possible; and the Templot P chairs vary in length according to the track standard for 00/EM/P4 etc.

I will be interested to see your chairs, but if/when you post your STL files, please, please underline in bright red 5 times that they are NOT Templot plug track. I just know that folks are going to get confused. It would be a great pity if folks print your chairs, and then find that they don't fit in Templot FDM timbering bases, or they do fit but produce the wrong track gauge.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4021
I said back in January that I would update the forum once I got my layout back up again and I had actually produced something. Well, I have finally got there.

Personally I prefer to make ply and rivet track, certainly for turnouts, but I have been wondering if using Martin's 3D printed chairs with laser cut sleepers for plain track was possible. So, having produced a trial, which I posted on here before some time ago, I set some sizes that I could standardise on and cut a load of sleepers and printed a lot more chairs on my Photon resin printer. From the photos below you will see that I glued some socketed chairs into one side of the sleeper with epoxy and once firmly set threaded up a half track which was glued down. The second rail was threaded with chairs and then glued in place producing a great looking piece of track.

Timbers are made from 1.5mm mounting board shellacked which give the sleepers enough strength for this but, as with everything, time will tell. Is this quicker than what I have done on the rest of the layout using ply and rivet and cosmetic chairs? Probably not but it beats filing the back of a half chair to fit around whats left of a rivet after it has been filed or ground away! Also it is a damn sight cheaper. The cost for the track you can see in the photo is probably a couple of quid, if that, and I can do everything myself when I want to which is just the job for me - I don't have to wait for anything to be delivered!

I will continue this method and see how it goes, I am certainly pleased with the result and thank Martin for producing the chair option within Templot.

20220803_142457.jpg


20220803_142521.jpg


20220803_162424.jpg


20220803_162449.jpg


Ralph
 
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message ref: 4727
For the sake of completeness in case anyone else wants to go down this road here are another 2 photos, one of the sleepers in a shellac bath and the other of the chairs being glued into the sleepers. The epoxy us the 20 minute version from DeLuxe which is not cheap but it comes in a big bottle and gives you plenty of time to get things right, 5 minute epoxy is sometimes just a bit too fast.

20220710_142028.jpg


20220723_141122.jpg


Ralph
 
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message ref: 4731
@ralphrobertson

Hi Ralph,

That's looking good. it's great to see the Templot 3-D files being put to good use. :)

But I'm at my wits end trying to explain to folks the intent of Plug Track (already had 3 goes on RMweb and on the Scalefour forum) and it's likely to confuse everyone if pictures of bottles of glue are posted. Or not.

Because the whole purpose of Plug Track, and the reason I'm developing it, is:

1. you don't use glue. The chairs are intended to be a press-fit in the timbers. But you can use glue if you want to. :)

2. you don't slide the rail into previously fixed chairs. The chairs are threaded onto the rail before being pressed into the timbers.

(In effect the rail is used as a tool to insert the chairs. Pressing them firmly into place without rail in them risks breaking the jaws.)

Obviously you can use the Templot files any way you like, but I'm desperate to keep the main topic focused on developing the original Plug Track idea and making some progress with it.

Presumably you are using glue because card sleepers are too fragile to accept a press fit? Also you obviously edited the default plug depths to fit 1.5mm card. And the plug or socket sizes to leave a few thou for the glue?

The default timber thickness and plug depth is now 3.2mm, but is much shallower if you are still using some files I posted last year.

Did you need to use track gauges while the glue sets, or was the fit close enough to produce an accurate gauge automatically? What rail are you using? Did you edit the rail fit for the chairs or use the Templot defaults?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4732
@ralphrobertson

Hi Ralph,

That's looking good. it's great to see the Templot 3-D files being put to good use. :)

Thanks for posting, but if you don't mind I'm going to move your posts to a separate topic.

I'm at my wits end trying to explain to folks the intent of Plug Track (already had 3 goes on RMweb and on the Scalefour forum) and it's just going to confuse everyone if pictures of bottles of glue are posted in this topic.

Because the whole purpose of Plug Track, and the reason I'm developing it, is:

1. you don't use glue. The chairs are intended to be a press-fit in the timbers.

2. you don't slide the rail into previously fixed chairs. The chairs are threaded onto the rail before being pressed into the timbers.

(In effect the rail is used as a tool to insert the chairs. Pressing them firmly into place without rail in them risks breaking the jaws.)

Obviously you can use the Templot files any way you like, but I'm desperate to keep this topic focused on developing the original Plug Track idea and making some progress with it.

Presumably you are using glue because card sleepers are too fragile to accept a press fit? Also you obviously edited the default plug depths to fit 1.5mm card. And the plug or socket sizes to leave a few thou for the glue?

The default timber thickness and plug depth is now 3.0mm, but is much shallower if you are still using some files I posted last year.

Did you need to use track gauges while the glue sets, or was the fit close enough to produce an accurate gauge automatically? What rail are you using? Did you edit the rail fit for the chairs or use the Templot defaults?

cheers,

Martin.
Martin, you can do whatever you like with my posts, I do not object at all.

I set up my settings to use glue because I didn't think card would have enough strength to hold the resin printed chairs as they are. I worked out the sizes by trial and error and came up with a size that gave enough meat to the edge of the card socket that it would not bend when the chair was fixed into it. If anyone wants to know the exact sizes let me know but I can't imagine anyone other than myself would want to do this, I only did it because I have both a 3D printer and a laser cutter to hand. My laser doesn't cut wood very well which is why I use thicker card and I worked on the plug size accordingly.

This has all been done with Templot version 2.28a which I know is not the latest but that is what I used to generate the S1 chair with socket. I fiddled around with the settings for the chair in 2.28a until I could produce something that worked for what I needed.

I didn't need to use any track gauges, the track measures a little over 18.83mm which suits me fine. For turnouts it might be a different scenario but I wouldn't use this as I would always want something which allowed me to make easy adjustments in the future should they be necessary - just my personal preference.

The rail used in this example is Karlgarin Hi-nickel rail available from Phoenix Precision. I did not change the rail fit, just used it as it came thanks.

Hope this helps.

Ralph
 
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message ref: 4733
For the sake of completeness in case anyone else wants to go down this road here are another 2 photos, one of the sleepers in a shellac bath and the other of the chairs being glued into the sleepers. The epoxy us the 20 minute version from DeLuxe which is not cheap but it comes in a big bottle and gives you plenty of time to get things right, 5 minute epoxy is sometimes just a bit too fast.

View attachment 4014

View attachment 4015

Ralph

Ralph

I find your adaption very interesting please keep us all informed of your progress
 
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message ref: 4734
Hi Martin,
I thought it was about time I showed my progress so far regarding my adaption on your plug track system. I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum?

I have now created my own crossing chairs within Fusion 360 and I'm currently experimenting with various methods of construction most of which can be seen below.
1 - Top view: resin printed assembly sections (2 pieces) where the sleepers, ballast base, chairs and positional joints are all printed as a single piece.
2 - Lower LH view: 1.5mm ply laser cut timbers with resin chairs slid onto bullhead rail and fitted into chair/sleeper holes
3 - Middle right views: Resin printed sleeper bases with/without resin chairs
4 - Lower right view: FDM printed sleeper base with resin chair.
Scissor prototypes 08-22 a.PNG

I anticipate progressing #2 (laser cut timbers) to complete this half of the scissor crossing and then probably developing a variation of #1 & 3 for the double slips half of the scissor crossing.
Scissor prototypes 08-22 b.PNG

Terry
 
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message ref: 4748
Because the whole purpose of Plug Track, and the reason I'm developing it, is:

1. you don't use glue. The chairs are intended to be a press-fit in the timbers. But you can use glue if you want to. :)

If you decide to set an easy fit for the chair plugs in the sockets, for glued-in chairs instead of press-fit, the question which has arisen several times, is

What glue will stick resin-printed chairs into FDM-printed timbering bases?

Bearing in mind that the usual solvents appear to have limited effect on either of those materials.

I have now discovered this:

tetrion_wood_fix.png


Which at first sight appears to be ordinary white wood glue. But it obviously isn't, because it's supplied in a small 18gm dispenser with a fine applicator nozzle, similar to superglues, and very unlike the packaging for most wood glues.

The good news is that it seems to work just fine for what we want. Some chairs I fixed yesterday are now locked solid. The nozzle is small enough to inject the adhesive directly into 4mm scale sockets, and any excess can be wiped away with a damp sponge. It is slow setting to allow adjustments, not achieving full strength for 24 hours. It sets hard and can be filed, and when set it is claimed to be water-resistant for outdoor use.

The packaging is a bit strange, suggesting that it can be used for "joinery" -- I should think there is just about enough for one joint! And the picture shows most of a whole pack being used for one job. :confused:

It's available from Amazon and Ebay:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tetrion-Wood-Fix-18g/dp/B08BWZHSJ1

But I actually found it at a much lower price (guess) in the local pound shop.

It would seem to be a useful addition to the toolbox for general modelling. I can't find it on the maker's web site, which suggests it may have been discontinued -- if you find some you may like to get it while you can.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4755
looks good, I have not found anything strong enough to fix resin to fdm or timber so far so, I will give this a try. BTW, Amazon only has a couple of tubes available... going fast.
 
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message ref: 4757
Which at first sight appears to be ordinary white wood glue. But it obviously isn't, because it's supplied in a small 18gm dispenser with a fine applicator nozzle, similar to superglues, and very unlike the packaging for most wood glues.

I'm assuming this is not just an expensive way of buying waterproof PVA.

The back of the packaging has this:

tetrion_wood_fix_ingredients.png


Do we have a chemist who can translate that into A-level Chemistry-speak from 60 years ago? :)

Checking the EC number:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylisothiazolinone

says "this product serves as an antimicrobial agent in latex adhesives" , so may not be the actual adhesive element.

Is it the same as any other commonly available adhesive?

This particular brand, Tetrion Wood Fix, seems not to be stocked by any of the main DIY stores. I fear it may have been discontinued -- possibly because of EU bans on that ingedient for cosmetic use in the mid-2010s. A batch sticker on my pack suggests it may have been manufactured in 2017.

Thanks.

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4764
Hi Martin,
I thought it was about time I showed my progress so far regarding my adaption on your plug track system. I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum?

I have now created my own crossing chairs within Fusion 360 and I'm currently experimenting with various methods of construction most of which can be seen below.
1 - Top view: resin printed assembly sections (2 pieces) where the sleepers, ballast base, chairs and positional joints are all printed as a single piece.
2 - Lower LH view: 1.5mm ply laser cut timbers with resin chairs slid onto bullhead rail and fitted into chair/sleeper holes
3 - Middle right views: Resin printed sleeper bases with/without resin chairs
4 - Lower right view: FDM printed sleeper base with resin chair.
View attachment 4040
I anticipate progressing #2 (laser cut timbers) to complete this half of the scissor crossing and then probably developing a variation of #1 & 3 for the double slips half of the scissor crossing.
View attachment 4041
Terry
I have now progressed the resin printed timbers with chairs and assembled as shown below. Now I need to wire/isolate and develop the stretcher bars to complete. I resin printed the timber blocks in 5 pieces at strategically positioned split points to enable the 94 rail pieces to be inserted etc. I have learnt a lot from this development and I'm wondering whether to offer a print and assembly service but not sure whether there would be any takers!

Terry
Scissor Slips prototype at 25-08-22 a.PNG

Scissor Slips prototype at 25-08-22 b.PNG

Scissor Slips prototype at 25-08-22 c.PNG


Scissor Slips prototype at 25-08-22 d.PNG
 
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message ref: 4816
Photos show one board I have set up with card sleepers and Templot generated 3D printed chairs. Initially I glued each sleeper individually having threaded a chaired sleeper onto one rail but it is a fiddle getting every sleeper square and one or two are a bit skew. Actually making the 2 of the 3 sidings I moved on to creating a web of sleepers and gluing them down minus chairs but using a piece of rail with a few chair plugs to line it all up whilst the glue set. Then the webs were cut away and a rail set in place with all chairs mounted. I do glue the chairs in place, card can expand and for me I want a belt and braces system where I don't have to relay track again in the future - will that be so, we will see! The second rail is laid using pre-threaded chairs in much the same way, again all glued in place using 20 minute epoxy. All plain track on the lower board has this form of track, turnouts are ply and rivet - my preferred way of making them, chairs will be hand glued using traditional methods.

It all needs wiring up and fettling now to make sure it all works ok.

20220811_145421.jpg


20220813_134649.jpg


Ralph
 
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message ref: 4825
Sanding FDM-printed timbering bricks

If you have printed a timbering brick on an FDM (filament) printer, you have likely got the usual 3D-printed mottled look to the timber surfaces.

That might get lost under a heavy coat of paint, but maybe not under a thin coat -- which might make it look even worse.

The "ironing" function in the Cura slicer software can help to smooth the surface, but it tends to create a slight pillowed effect between the sockets, and adds significantly to the printing time.

So you will probably want to sand the timber tops to a flat surface before using the timbering brick. Here is my high-tech setup to do that. I forgot to add the jar of water, so you will have to imagine that bit: :)

brick_sanding_tools.jpg


1. a dead-flat piece of board with a waterproof surface. This is the obvious choice, an off-cut of laminate-faced shelving. The workmate bench outside was convenient for daylight photography.

2. glue the timbering brick dead-flat to it with the same PVP glue-stick used on the bed of the printer -- they can be obtained from:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08ZRXNH8D/

(ordinary paper glue-sticks don't work).

3. wait a few minutes for the glue to set (can be speeded up with a hair-dryer).

4. rub some soap onto the surface of the brick.

5. dip the sander in some water.

My sander is not the usual sanding block, it's a Plasterer's Margin Trowel. One can be obtained from:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-SGTMARG5-2-inch-Margin-Trowel/dp/B002KHR71Q/

but mine came from the bargain bin at a local DIY shop.

It has a smooth rectangular metal blade, to which I have attached some Wet&Dry abrasive paper using double-stick tape (all over, to keep it flat).

For a rapid result you can use 400-grit paper, but you need to be careful not to overdo it. I'm using 600-grit which takes a bit longer but gives more control. From your local car body repair shop, or from:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sanding-sheet-unpunched-280-x-230mm-400-grit-10-pack/908jg
https://www.screwfix.com/p/sanding-sheet-unpunched-280-x-230mm-600-grit-10-pack/519jg

6. work over the timbering brick until you are satisfied the surface is smooth all over. Then stop -- you want to keep a constant timber thickness for level track. It doesn't take long. Add more water as needed to keep it cool, but don't flood it otherwise you may loosen the adhesive. If you try working dry the friction heat may be sufficient to melt the surface of the plastic, which will just clog up the abrasive paper and render it useless. The water keeps it cool, the soap acts as a wetting agent and lubricates the process, add more if needed.

No doubt the metal trowel blade also helps to keep the abrasive cool. A traditional wooden sanding block might not do that. Other shapes and sizes of plasterers trowel are available, some at high professional prices.

7. remove the brick from the board using the window scraper (from the pound shop). It should release quite easily. If not, a scrub with a wet nail brush will soften the adhesive.

8. give it a rinse under the tap and a scrub with a nail brush to remove the sandings and any remaining adhesive. Leave in a warm place to dry, or use the hair-dryer again. Don't leave it soaking in water for an extended period of time.

This is the surface result after ironing in Cura and a light wet-sanding with 600-grit paper. The timber surface no longer looks FDM-printed. In this cruel close-up the layering from the printer is visible on the timber sides, but will be lost in the ballast:

index.php


If wanted, an overscale wood-grain effect could be scratched into the surface using a broken bit of junior hacksaw blade, dragged sideways.

9. clean the board for next time with a kitchen scourer. The PVP glue is water-soluble with the aid of the scourer.

p.s. the above is my process for eSun toughened PLA+ polymer. I haven't tried it with any other polymers, feedback welcome.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4829
The work bench seems to de devoid of normal DIY use !!!
@Hayfield

Hi John,

It's a cheap one from Lidl which I purchased about 5 years ago and then forgot all about. :)

I discovered it unopened in its box a couple of weeks ago and put it together quickly before I forget all about it again! I do have a more substantial one scarred with many years of use. My thinking was that it's useful to have two if you ever need to work on a long plank. No such plank has appeared in my life recently, and had it done I doubt I would have remembered that I had a second workmate somewhere. :(

p.s. I have sent you an email.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4831
Fitting chairs

Work on a suitable solid flat board:

brick_chairing_tools.jpg



The resin-printed plug-in chairs are each printed supported on a pyramid above a base raft (skate) (slab) of resin:
plug_flush_cutting.png

The wider chairs such as S1J joint chairs and L1 bridge chairs have a correspondingly wider plug and pyramid. This is to ensure that the fragile edge of the chair base is fully supported and prints properly.

It is important that the plug is cut cleanly from the support pyramid using flush cutters such as a Xuron rail cutter. If there are any rough or broken remains on the base of the plug, the chair may bottom in the socket and not seat down properly on the timber surface.

brick_chairing_tools2.jpg


The short length of wood is a cocktail stick with the ends snipped off. More about that below.

1. The rail is used as a means to install the chairs in the sockets. Using a needle file, remove any burrs from the end of the rail so that the chairs can be threaded on easily. Do not press the chairs into the timbers without the rail through them -- they are a firm press-fit and risk being damaged if pressed hard with your fingers.

2. Lay out the chairs on the paper template in their proper positions with the keys on the correct side of the rail and facing the right way. It is much easier to do this before threading them onto the rail. :)

3. Then slide them onto the rail in the correct order, and space them out to match the template.

If you have the rail-fit settings correct, the chairs should slide along easily, but stay put in the desired position.

4. Check that there is no debris or other obstructions in the timber sockets. A few fine cobwebby strings from the FDM printer do not matter -- the plug will usually break through them. You can see a few in the photo below. The end of a piece of code75 bullhead rail is a convenient fit to use as a tool in clearing the sockets in 4mm scale.

5. The chairs will fit more easily if the timbering base is warmed, e.g. using a hair dryer.

6. Loosely locate the chairs in the timber sockets. The plugs are tapered so that they locate easily.

7. Then work to and fro along the rail with a suitable implement, gently at first, and then more firmly, gradually firming the chairs down home into the timbers:

brick_chairing_tools1.jpg


I found a length of hardwood capping strip having radiused edges. An off-cut from that has made a perfect firming-down tool without damaging the rail.

If an odd chair refuses to firm down, place the wood flat on the rail and give it a light tap with a pin hammer. But make sure it is not bottoming in the socket for some reason.

If necessary the chairs can be removed by turning the brick over and pushing them out sharply with a small screwdriver or similar.

The P slide chairs cannot be threaded onto the rail. Locate them loosely in their sockets beforehand, and hook the rail into them as you locate it in place. Firm down the P chairs along with the others.

Because the rail is offset from the centre of the P chair, it may not go fully home using the rail only. Cut the ends from a cocktail stick and use it as a punch on the slide pad area of the chair. Most cocktail sticks are 2mm diameter and in 4mm/ft scale will just fit conveniently between the rail and the chair screw heads. Give it a light tap with the pin hammer to seat the chair fully home.

8. If desired for a permanent fix, turn the brick over and run a little adhesive around the base of the plugs and leave to set. It's not strictly necessary unless you anticipate your track being roughly treated.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4846
Hi All,
I was directed here from my thread, I'd like to ask how I can get an .stl file for a Timbering Fret based off a plain track control template?
I have made the template with the desired timber spacing but after playing around with myself and reading, I'm just as stumped as I was before.

I get to the Export DXF/STL page and all hell breaks loose :D
Reading this thread, the level of detail is exactly what I'm after! and the points made out are fantastic and really assisted in my planning efforts.
Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

James
 
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message ref: 4939
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

How are you planning to make the fret? FDM 3D printing? Laser-cutting? Cameo craft cutter? Something else?

The first requires a 3-D STL file. The others require a 2-D DXF file. The settings differ for each.

And how long? For FDM printing it might need to be made in two clip-together parts for a full rail length.

When I know which I will make you a bit of video.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4940
Hi Martin,

I am sure this has probably been covered before but...

If one was to buy a Mars 2, what other bits would be needed? Chosen type of resin of course, but what's needed to clean up and cure etc if anything?
 
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message ref: 4943
@Stephen Freeman

Hi Stephen,

I assume you mean the bare minimum?

There are some water-washable resins, which means all you need is an old ice-cream tub and a small brush, and lots of kitchen roll paper.

However, reports suggest the water-washable resins are not so good for fine detail. I use the Elegoo "ABS-like" semi-flexible resin which needs IPA (isopropyl alcohol) for washing -- I use this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082XQ4W4R/

Don't use lower-grade industrial IPA, which doesn't work so well.

In theory it lasts forever because it can be recycled by exposing to UV light (sunshine) to precipitate the dissolved resin, and then filtering. I haven't tried that yet.

IPA is flammable. Take care sloshing litres of the stuff about. Keep lids on, no smoking, and you might think it sensible to have one of these in the workshop:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AA-Fire-Extinguisher-950g-Bsi/dp/B002Q9O3GK/

The resin I'm using is:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07P84PQCF/

I'm still on the original bottle because you don't need much to make chairs. It is past its labelled shelf-life, but is still working fine (kept in a cool dark cupboard).

Ideally you also need an empty previous bottle to keep used resin in if you drain the "tank" (it's just a tray) for cleaning after printing, rather than pouring it back into the fresh resin bottle. Some funnels and filters come with the printer. But you only need to do that if the printing fails and leaves bits of cured resin in the tank. Otherwise just cover the tank with kitchen foil to keep it dark and leave ready for next time.

After washing the finished parts are still soft and delicate and need UV-curing. For which you can use sunshine. Or a small hand-held UV lamp.

But I use one of these, which does the washing and curing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0863TS839/

I have purchased a second tub for it so that I can have a first and second wash to make the IPA last longer (second wash swaps to first wash when the first wash is too cloudy for further use, and use a fresh second wash).*

There is a newer model which separates the washing and curing functions:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELEGOO-Mercury-Separate-Compatible-Printers/dp/B095WYMPRW/

You need to work after dark (or in a room without windows) so that there is no UV light about while handling the resin. If you are paranoid you also need an old-style incandescent light bulb for the work room in case modern lamps produce any stray UV (anyone?).

*hint: it won't work without the UV cover on, even when only washing. Don't ask. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4944
Thanks Martin,
I think that answers most of my immediate questions, I feel that I will have to take the plunge soon but not until I have sorted out the accommodation for it and the FDM printer (already got that, just lacking time to experiment with), don't know if I will go for the milling option yet as well as the FDM.
 
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message ref: 4945
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

How are you planning to make the fret? FDM 3D printing? Laser-cutting? Cameo craft cutter? Something else?

The first requires a 3-D STL file. The others require a 2-D DXF file. The settings differ for each.

And how long? For FDM printing it might need to be made in two clip-together parts for a full rail length.

When I know which I will make you a bit of video.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi @Martin Wynne
So I am going to make it via FDM 3d printing, I have a rail length setup for GWR 44'6" 19 sleeper panels (which should be 178.86mm long lengths in 1:76) but I want to make multiple so I can connect them for longer sections of rail.
I'm sure any video you can provide will assist greatly and I can produce sections of my required length.

Cheers,

James
 
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message ref: 4947
Hi James,

You mentioned "off a plain track control template", but you need to save your desired control template to the backgound, as you cannot export the control template directly. Hope this helps.
Steve
 
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message ref: 4948
Hi James,

You mentioned "off a plain track control template", but you need to save your desired control template to the backgound, as you cannot export the control template directly. Hope this helps.
Steve
Hi Steve :)
Thank you, so yes I managed to sort that, but each time I then proceeded to mark things up and then export, my .stl file was corrupt or inaccessible :D Not sure what I was doing wrong.

Cheers,
James
 
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message ref: 4949
I've finally got my balsa wood to start creating my trackwork, I will begin simply laying on top of the Templot printed templates since this is such a small layout example. I hope to work towards creating larger timbering frets for the future, laying several meters of track 1 timber at a time will get tedious :D (The things we do for authenticity)
Full steam ahead! This thread continues to provide visual motivation for me each time I read it.
Cheers,

James
 
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message ref: 5031
1091.jpeg


James Walters kindly gave me a laser cut P4 ply turnout base, as of yet I have not tried using it.
@Hayfield

Hi John,

I'm getting a bit concerned about the above. A lot of plywood has been wasted there because the sockets for the entire V-crossing area are complete junk. I haven't even looked at that area yet -- currently Templot is assuming it is two lengths of plain track overlaid. You need to cut all that part away and bin it -- I can't imagine any practical use for it.

Also, the chairs you have there are for the 3D-printed timbering bases. I doubt they will work in laser-cut plywood as they stand unless James has adjusted the socket settings to match them. Also of course, if that is P4 the slide chairs you have there won't fit -- they are for EM.

Ideally when resin-printing chairs the chair/socket fit settings need to be set up for the intended usage. For example for CNC-milled bases the chair plugs need an increased corner relief setting.

Also, what is the thickness of that plywood? For the plug-in assembly method to work as intended it needs to be 1/8" (3.2mm) thick -- as are those FDM printed bases and the chairs.

In thinner plywood there are three problems -- it gets very much more fiddly to align the shorter plugs over the sockets; they will probably need to have smaller plugs to be glued in place because a press-fit will damage the thin ply socket sides; that it turn probably means the rails will need to be threaded in afterwards when the glue has set, like assembling a turnout kit. Which rules out having prototypical one-piece wing rails through the knuckle.

It's still far too experimental to go ahead and create an entire turnout base from the Templot files. It's just a waste of material. I feel folks are jumping ahead of me, and there seems to be a push towards laser-cut plywood which I don't share. I'm currently focused on FDM-printed and CNC milled bases -- for which I have the necessary bench-top machines here.

Templot is my hobby and essentially for my own use, and I don't have a laser-cutter, especially not one capable of cutting 1/8" thick which I believe would be expensive, and unpleasant in use. I can't really develop Templot for something for which I can't do my own trial and error experiments. I've tended to assume that track-builders are much more likely to have an FDM printer and/or a benchtop CNC engraver/miller in their workshop, rather than a laser-cutter, but maybe I'm wrong?

Here's something now in 236c which is no problem for FDM printing or CNC milling, but would be trickier for plywood -- the steel soleplate on the toe timber:

soleplate_cad.png


It still needs the rib which is welded or riveted onto the end of the soleplate. That could be added with a bit of plastic card, but I'm planning to do a special version of the slide chair for the toe timber, having the rib integral with the chair base (including the rivet heads, which can be filed off for the more modern welded designs). GWR soleplates have the end of the plate forged up instead of a separate rib, but that will have to wait until I have done the GWR chairs.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 5082
Martin

The ply timbers are 3.27mm thick, but the holes for the plugs may be slightly larger. certainly on the timbers for the J chairs have burnt away the tops of the plug side walls. I think you also know my thoughts on ply timbers
 
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message ref: 5084
I am leaning towards a combination of FDM printing for pointwork and laser cut ply for plain track panels. I think laser cutting ply will be much faster and I have a fairly ambitious layout plan in my head, one that will require a lot of plain track. I will let you know how my ordered 40W (input power, allegedly 10W output power) diode laser can actually do. The youtube clips I've seen of these more powerful diode lasers would suggest 3.2mm in ply should be achievable and cleanly. If this does not work, my fallback is to FDM print all the visible sleepers and probably the off scene ones too, but with just enough spacing to keep everything in gauge. May also just use copperclad and solder the rails in the off scene areas.
 
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message ref: 5087
I am leaning towards a combination of FDM printing for pointwork and laser cut ply for plain track panels. I think laser cutting ply will be much faster and I have a fairly ambitious layout plan in my head, one that will require a lot of plain track. I will let you know how my ordered 40W (input power, allegedly 10W output power) diode laser can actually do. The youtube clips I've seen of these more powerful diode lasers would suggest 3.2mm in ply should be achievable and cleanly. If this does not work, my fallback is to FDM print all the visible sleepers and probably the off scene ones too, but with just enough spacing to keep everything in gauge. May also just use copperclad and solder the rails in the off scene areas.
Hi Martin,
I've just bought one of these which is an Atomstack clone. Laser is rated at 10W.
Available from Banggood.



Also the compatible AtomStack Air Assist system from Amazon which has just been reduced in price.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09W5QSKY7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It does need a suitable enclosure but I can assure you that it cuts 6mm ply easily and will cope with thicker material with suitable ventilation/extraction.

Best regards

Charles
 
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message ref: 5089
I will let you know how my ordered 40W (input power, allegedly 10W output power) diode laser can actually do.
@murphaph

Please do let us know how you get on.

@Charles Orr

Hi Charles,

Thanks for that.

But I think I must be missing something. For example this laser cutter claims to cut through 12mm wood:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ATOMSTACK-Engraver-Engraving-Compressed-Protection/dp/B0B3C2ZWNV

But with what precision and quality? We don't just want to burn a hole through the wood. It needs to be a precise square-edge with a resolution of about 0.05mm (2 thou).

This one costs 4 times as much, but claims a cutting thickness of only 2-4mm?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TEN-HIGH-Engraving-300x400mm-Engraver-Version/dp/B07M9Y34CG

I would like to try laser cutting, but after the disappointment of the Silhouette Cameo cutter I don't want to risk the same again. I fear the results from these machines on Amazon won't be good enough for what we want.

In the Gauge 0 Guild Gazette there is an advertisement for one of these:

https://www.rayjetlaser.com/en/products/r-series-laser-cutter

with prices starting at £8795. Is that the level of investment actually needed? This company obviously thinks that there is a market for their product in home workshops. What machines are used by the firms currently offering laser-cut track bases?

For the present I think FDM printing probably offers the best option for most home track builders. Yes it's very slow, but it runs without needing any attention, so the speed is hardly relevant. And it's low-cost (including materials) and domestic-friendly. This one seems to be making waves at present:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELEGOO-Printing-Function-Printers-220x220x280mm-Neptune-3/dp/B0B2PCCPJQ

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 5090
Hi Martin,
There are many reviews on YouTube for this sort of cutter/engraver which demonstrate it's cutting ability.
Clearly care is needed when doing this sort of thing.
I will let you know how I get on but I need to build a case and suitable extraction system first.
My first experiments indicated that cutting 3mm ply and thicker was no problem at all, apart from the smoke (and flames 😉) produced.
I used it to cut some station platforms.

Best regards
Charles
 
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message ref: 5091
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