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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Building 3D track

Quick reply >
Bunched laser sleepers
20221027_093841.jpg
 
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(I note that Elegoo seem to recomend 8 seconds for the ABS like grey resin)
I am now in the process of printing another set of S1 chairs and locator plugs, and will then measure these to see if i get any consistancy.

I am thinking that locator plugs are easier to measure than chairs.
I suppose it is the equivalent to etching a 10cm scale
with 1mm increments on an etch design, or for that matter the calibration lines that Templot prints for ensuring our templates are printed to the right size.

Picture of "bunched" sleeper sheet to follow, the design of which was performed by the laser cutting service.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the pics, sorry you seem to be having a lot of faff. :( It's difficult to be sure, but the bunched sleepers seem to be wider than 3.3mm ?

I think the recommended 8 seconds is for the previous Mars printer (not Mars 2) which used a lower-intensity screen. When the Mars2 was introduced they made a big splash about how much faster it is than the previous Mars.

I assumed/intended that anyone printing a batch of locator plugs would reduce the size of the plugs so that they are an easier fit through the timbers. Otherwise I can't quite see how they are usable to locate the timbers over the base layer. Unless I'm missing something?

At the back of my mind I'm sure that when I first introduced the locator plugs I made them automatically smaller than the normal plugs. But I can't now find any such code, so I must have removed it for some reason. I will see if I can get it back.

Your problems with the bunched sleepers illustrate why I so very much prefer to do experiments on my own machines rather than rely on 3rd parties. But it seems a laser-cutter of the required quality costs well into 4-figures, so unless I have some other major use for one (which I haven't at present) it's not going to happen.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin, forgot to say that the Scalefour nickel silver rail fitted chairs ok. When I say ok, bit of a wiggle, but slight;y easier than sliding onto exactoscale chairs. With Exactoscale chairs i seem to get about a 1 in 40 failure rate, which occurs in the bottom of the chair whicj has a hole in it, and one or other of the bottom side splits as I insert the rail, seems always to be a chair in the same position on the exactoscale sprue.

For me It is not really a lot of faff, just jolly good fun as I progress along the learning curve!

Oh, and I have noticed that on a few of the 80 S1 chairs I printed with plug width adjusted by -0.3mm a corner of the chair baseplate had snapped off, as you predicted, but I suppose that happens in the real world too?

I might try printing a set of 5 locator plug rafts with each raft having a reduction of locator plug width of -0.05mm, then measuring the resultant plugs (easier than chair plugs) as a means of evaluating the shrinkage.

It is going to be interesting to establish that if we use the same parameters and resin on several different Mars 2 Pro machines we get consistent results, or if we dont there is a way of fine tuning an individual setup to achieve the desired results.

Enough waffling for now, back to the resin tank to try out my 2nd build plate that has now arrived.
It is in a box labelled "sandblasted build plate" and is identical in looks to the one supplied with the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro.

I have already thoroughly cleaned it after removing the protective (tacky) clear film!
Wont be making that mistake again, famous last words!

Happy chair design, Steve
 
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Enough waffling for now, back to the resin tank to try out my 2nd build plate that has now arrived.
It is in a box labelled "sandblasted build plate" and is identical in looks to the one supplied with the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I thought mine was identical until I looked closely. On the 2nd one the top clamp screw has a plastic knob with an embossed logo. The original one has a metal knob and no logo.

Another thing I noticed by keeping my eyes peeled. I was surprised to find the Mars tool kit included a pair of genuine Xuron flush snips:

https://www.xuron.com

On closer inspection I have since noticed they are branded Xoron Corp in an otherwise identical logo. How about yours? It's great to have these low-cost machines from the far east, but we are not here to be fooled. :)

Oh, and I have noticed that on a few of the 80 S1 chairs I printed with plug width adjusted by -0.3mm a corner of the chair baseplate had snapped off, as you predicted, but I suppose that happens in the real world too?

Yes it does, but usually only after some time in use, not when new from the foundry! More worrying is what happened to the broken-off bits? If they are accumulating in the bottom of the tank they could spoil some of the next chairs, or jam against the build plate on the first layer.

Also a few on one print could be a lot on the next print, if conditions are marginal.

You could try increasing this:

widened_plug_end1.png


which widens this red:

widened_plug_end2.png


So that the corner overhang of the base from the plug is reduced. That should be ok for a bash fit into plywood, but might make it too difficult for FDM.

Or see if 1.8mm or 1.9mm plugs are feasible instead of 1.7mm?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
Spare build plate
Yes mine also has the plastic knob with logo rather than plain metal knob.
But when I said the same I meant the sandblasted finish, rather than CD turned
Flush snips
Yes min also have embossed Xoron but looks like Xuron at first glance!

Broken bits
These occured after curing and a bit more brittle.

Ply Sleepers
The "bunched" ones are are about 3.39mm wide, whereas the non-bunched sheets seem to have 3.3mm wide sleepers

Steve
 
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Was this in your paint brush process or in the Mercury wash phase?

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

A few of the loose jaws parted company in the first "dirty dunk" brush wash to clean the back of the build plate, etc. That was before I realised just how delicate they were.

They all survived the Mercury wash (or at least, there are none in the bottom of the tub). I leave prints on the build plate hanging in the washer.

Then a few more were despatched into the next county when I got a bit too close with the air blaster for drying after washing.

And some more got dislodged in handling the rafts to remove them from the build plate and put them on the turntable for curing. At this stage they are still very soft from printing. I collected them up and cured them and they are perfectly usable.

No good hanging the build plate in the Mercury for curing of course because they wouldn't rotate into the light beam. But I have since discovered that if you completely remove the top clamp screw from the build plate housing, you can lay the plate down sideways on the turntable. There is just one position where it can rotate and clear the column by a few mm. So that would be a way to cure them without needing to handle them. It would need longer because they will be out of the light beam for 50% of the time.

Once cured they are much stronger, but still easily removed from the supports with fingers if desired.

What I don't know is how difficult it is to remove cured rafts from the build plate. Only one way to find out. :)

Having said all that, out of 60 loose jaws printed, there were still a good 50 still on the rafts at the finish. For 40 chairs.

I made a couple of mistakes:

The top of the support pyramid was too small to have any strength. I have now increased it a little. But there is not much scope for that because it needs to be smaller than the pin.

I also made the support pyramids too tall. Being the same length as for the chairs made the loose-jaws stand above the chairs when the rafts are side-by-side on the build plate. Making them much more vulnerable to damage. I have now lowered them with yet another setting:

support_dims.png


2mm is the minimum support height, because that is the thickness of the Xuron cutter jaws.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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What I don't know is how difficult it is to remove cured rafts from the build plate. Only one way to find out. :)
@Steve_Cornford

The good news: The answer is not at all difficult:

plate_mercury_turntable.jpg


After curing the rafts can be "flicked" off the plate by getting the scraper under a corner - done over a soft rubber mat to catch them. Unlike being "peeled" off when they are still soft from printing.

Blu-Tack to keep the plate in the one position on the turntable where it can rotate without catching -- switch the machine off to try it spinning free (stepper motor off). I have made a pencil mark for next time.

I gave them 12 minutes curing to compensate for not being in the UV beam for a lot of the time.

100% yield and untouched by human hand until cured. Apart from the one loose jaw I bumped while fiddling with the Blu-Tack (which you noticed immediately!).

The bad news: Today's loose-jaw pins won't fit the slots. :( They are about 0.02mm (less than a thou) bigger than Saturday's pins, and the slots are the same amount smaller:

Saturday pins:

Fit Saturday slots easily.​
Fit Monday slots with care.​

Monday pins:

Fit Saturday slots with care.​
Don't fit Monday slots.​

What's the reason for the difference? Everything was exactly the same -- except I rotated the rafts 90 degrees on the build plate. I've been wondering for some time if this makes any difference. Now I know. The screen resolving power is obviously not the same in both directions. The dot spacing is the same, but the dot definition must be different, the dot being better focused or contained in one direction than the other. Light overspill from one dot to the next reduces the effective resolution.

Which means we need to decide on one direction or the other and stick to it. And then make the STL settings accordingly. I wonder if changing from 2.2 seconds exposure to 2.5 seconds would reduce the difference or increase it? I wonder if other makes of printer are the same? Above results with Elegoo Mars2 Pro.

The only other change which might account for the difference -- Saturday was a sunny afternoon. Today it's a wet night here and it was raining while printing. So greater humidity in the air. I don't know any reason why that would make a difference to 3D printing -- but I do know that it makes a difference when baking bread and developing photographic prints.

Back to the good news -- I can actually see the difference when fitting today's modified loose jaws (in Saturday's chairs), the jaw now sits down flush on the chair base. Using the old and new loose jaws in side-by-side chairs makes it obvious (although maybe not to a man on a galloping horse).

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
Very interesting, and in a way I have experienced something similar.
I am still using 2.5 seconds exposure.
During the process of attempting to produce some S1 Locator plugs that give the best fit in my ply timbers (the unbunched ones) I have been printing some rafts of S1 locators with various "plug width adjustement" settings.

As ones with -0.15 plug width adjustment were still too wide, several days ago I produced some with -0.17 and -0.18 adjsutments respectively, each on rafts of 20 chairs, and if I call the ones you have pictured above as landscape rafts, I was arranging them portrait 5 rafts to the build plate (as you had originally).
I then measured the plug widths actually produced with a micrometer screw gauge and was surpris ed to find the following distribution of sizes:

-0.17mm adjustment gave 1 @ 1.74mm; 10 @ 1.75mm; 2 @ 1.76mm; 4 @ 1.77mm; 3 @ 1.72mm (20 in total)
-0.18mm adjustment gave 4 @ 1.74mm; 10 @ 1.75mm; 4 @ 1.76mm; 2 @ 1.78mm (20 in total)

in measuring these i did not note the postion on raft, however I surmised it might be something to do with UV emission from the overhead light in the room I was using (at night) when performing the operation of a) first switching the build plate onto the plastic 45degree holder whilst red cover off, then b) similar cause when transferring build plate from that bracket to the metal Mercury wash bracket, again with cover off.
My reasoning being that during a) there is a coating of resin on the printed chairs that could be exposed to UV emitted by the room light whilst red cover off causing a variation in plug width on those chairs most exposed.

The next day I produced some S1 locator plugs with -0.20 plug width adjustment, and some ordinary S1 chairs with -0.00 plug width adjustment (ie no adjustment) but with 6.87mm overall plug depth (as I needed them a bit longer to plug into the trackbed, but also this made it easier to measure the resultant plug width)

This time I used a much dimmer bedside table lamp (not an led) to illuminate the room whilst performing the two bracket change operations and here are the results for all the rafts I printed:-

S1 locators
-0.20mm adjustment gave 12 @ 1.70mm; 8 @ 1.71mm (20)
-0.20mm adjustemnt gave 1 @ 1.69mm; 7 @ 1.70mm; 12 @ 1.71mm (20)
-0.20mm adjustment gave 4 @ 1.70mm; 16 @ 1.71mm (20)
-0.20mm adjustment gave 1 @ 1.69mm; 3 @ 1.70mm; 3 @ 1.71mm; 13 @ 1.72mm (20)
S1 chairs
-0.00mm adjustment gave 9 @ 2.09mm; 10 @ 2.10mm; 1 @ 2.12mm (20)
-0.00mm adjustment gave 18 @ 2.10mm; 2 @ 2.11mm (2)

Assuming S1 chair plugs are designed to be 2.10mm, I suppose an accuracy of plus/minus 0.01mm is acceptable?
So my locators with adjustment of -0.20 (per side should give a target plug width of 2.10 - 2 * 0.20 = 1.70mm

Am I right in thinking that if the printers resolution is 50 microns (0.05mm), then objects produced will have nominal dimensions prouced in increments of 0.05mm (in the X and Y plane), but 0.01mm in the Z plane?

I am wondering whether it would be usefula to actually get a dark room bulb (one of those red ones)
You earlier posed question about incandescent bulbs but t'internet seems to imply that even these can emit UV

129mm divided by 2560 pixels gives 0.050
80mm divided by 1620 pixels gives 0.049

which re-inforces your resolution argument.

Regards Steve

ps I had only my second print failure yesterday, which was completely self inflicted. I have been happily printing away and completely ignored the fact that the resin tank level was getting low, which of course I noted after the print had finished and the build plate rose to the drip level, and the FEP was not completely covered in resin. it only affected a couple of chairs fortunately. Perhaps I need some some sort of dip stick device that when laid acroos the top of the tank has a pointer that should not be proud of the resin surface otherwise more resin is needed!
 
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Assuming S1 chair plugs are designed to be 2.10mm, I suppose an accuracy of plus/minus 0.01mm is acceptable?
So my locators with adjustment of -0.20 (per side should give a target plug width of 2.10 - 2 * 0.20 = 1.70mm

Am I right in thinking that if the printers resolution is 50 microns (0.05mm), then objects produced will have nominal dimensions prouced in increments of 0.05mm (in the X and Y plane), but 0.01mm in the Z plane?

I am wondering whether it would be usefula to actually get a dark room bulb (one of those red ones)
You earlier posed question about incandescent bulbs but t'internet seems to imply that even these can emit UV
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info, but something is not right there.

The design size for the S1 plugs (top part under chair base) in 4mm/ft scale is 2.0mm x 4.17mm (6" x 12.5" scaled).

I'm getting typically 1.99 - 2.01 mm. That's because I set the shrinkage to achieve exactly that:

shrinkage_3d.png


which in my case is 1.5% on all 3 axes. This therefore is the default in the program (it has to be something).

If you are using 2.5 second exposures it is likely to be printing slightly larger than my 2.2 seconds, so you would need to adjust the shrinkage accordingly to get 2.0mm plugs.

We don't know the X-Y resolution of the sliced images sent to the printer in the CTB file. But I suspect they are resampled to 2560 x 1620 and a bit depth of 1 (black/white, screen dot either off or full on). In which case achieving +/- 0.01mm is an excellent result and it's amazing we can get close to that.

Although the Z-axis resolution on the printer is apparently 0.01mm, we are slicing the model into 0.05mm layers. So all Z-dimensions will be rounded to 0.05mm increments. We don't know enough about the internal workings of Chitubox to know how intermediate Z-dimensions are rounded to the layers. I suspect on the free version it is a simple truncation at the slicing section.

I have a single 60 Watt incandescent ceiling light in my work room. It is on a dimmer, and turned well down when I'm resin printing. I believe if dimmed to less than about 75%, the UV emitted is effectively nil. I do have a darkroom safelight, but it's years since I used it and I never found it very pleasant to work under -- one of these:

paterson_safelight.jpg


When I first started photographic printing I had a 1-bar electric fire in the darkroom which served as a combined heater and safelight. Saying that now sounds like I was on a different planet at the time. :)

Sorry to hear you ran the tank empty! You have obviously been busy.



p.s. to see chair dimensions on the control template, user the ruler tool:

measure_chairs.png


Switch off timber infill (trackpad menu, above) so that you can see the ruler. Ruler at utils > show ruler.

CTRL+FULL STOP = mouse cross hairs

ALT+LEFT CLICK sets one end of ruler
ALT+RIGHT CLICK sets other end of ruler

cheers,

Martin.
 
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The bad news: Today's loose-jaw pins won't fit the slots.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I have now re-done those rafts, laid in "portrait" mode (running the short way across the build plate) as I did before.

The good news is that the loose-jaw pins now fit the slots again. :)

There isn't any bad news, although it meant fitting one fewer raft on there. They could be made a little longer.

It occurred to me that the deep vertical slots in the chairs are very tiny to wash out properly with a horizontal swirl. So I plunged the plate up and down in the wash bucket several times before starting the powered wash. I don't know if it made any difference, but the pins are fitting fine. Any residual resin left in the slots would be bad news for that.

I will post some pics later.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Thats good news, and a useful pin slot wash tip.

I did wonder whether an ultrasonic clean would help until I researched the dangers of using IPA in an ultrasonic cleaner:(

My chitubox settings
1667291980467.png


1667292023905.png



1667292042955.png



1667292065216.png

Print in progress!
 
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Print in progress!

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Woah! :(

Several settings there in your version of Chitubox which I don't have.

I don't know what Image Blur does, but it sounds the very last thing we need if we are trying to get accurate engineering parts. It might be used on artistic models to soften any sharp corners.

With pixels 0.05mm apart, smearing 2 of them together is going to reduce the precision of parts significantly. On my printer it is switched off, and the Grey Level is set to zero to get maximum contrast at edges:

mars2pro_advanced.png


Some Googling needed to find out what's going on there. Is there any reference to this stuff in your printer manual? Mine doesn't refer to any of the advanced settings.

I can't remember if the above were the defaults on my printer, or whether I took one look at them and changed them.

edit: detailed article here: https://www.chitubox.com/en/article/support/indepth/technology/52

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Welcome to the world of voxels and hemivoxels!
Am i any the wiser? Not yet, probably because I had my eggs scrambled this morning!

That article explains the theory and shows the results in a clear and concise way, but what does it mean for our application?

Probably means upgrade to a Saturn to get text onto the top of your bolt/screw heads :)

PLug track users to use same parameters that you use, then have a standard Templot exported test piece that a new user can produce and measure to check for consistent results.
I chose S1 locator plugs as with a 12mm plug they are easier to measure than just the default S1 chair.
I suspect the pegs and peg slots are the more critica, and harder to measurel.

Steve
 
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Am I any the wiser?

Hi Steve,

The problem with all this tech stuff is that it's likely to put folks off from trying Plug Track.

I'm hoping to make it as easy as possible with videos saying get one of these, click this, do that. But I can't do that until at least I have got as far as a complete turnout. And it's difficult with the internet awash with videos shouting at you, and everyone seemingly printing ugly fantasy miniatures which do nothing at all for me -- and certainly don't involve measuring things or fitting functional parts together.

But here's a nice article about starting from scratch with the Mars2 Pro and the Elegoo "ABS-like" resin to make usable parts:

https://thetechnologyman.com/elegoo-mars-2-pro-review-resin-3d-printing-introduction/

From which this is interesting:

"I found I could go a little lower than the default 2.5s – 2s gave slightly better results. And interestingly Lychee slicer uses 2s for this printer. Lychee slicer is an alternative to Chitubox and can still export .ctb files that can be printed off the Mars 2 Pro. I found it easier to use compared to Chitubox and it has more features in its free version."

I also discovered rather late in the day that the yellow plastic scraper is for cleaning the FEP film, not removing parts from the build plate. That solves the mystery of why they give you two scrapers.

I like the idea of spraying the FEP with PTFE dry lubricant. Something to try.

Here is the same guy covering the same subject in a video. He's talking too fast for a 74-year-old brain to follow, but I solve that by clicking the Settings cog and changing the playback speed to 0.75 :




Off to find the Lychee slicer to try.

Scrambled eggs. (y)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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So that i can get away with only 1 litre in the mercury wash tank, I have mad a trial modification to the build plate bracket so that the build plate hangs lower in the wash bucket.
20221103_182324.jpg
A couple of strips of 20mm x 2mm aluminium and some brass m4 nuts and bolts.
Steve
 
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Not a lot but they as they only have one jaw they need to be pluuged into timbers and then the stock rail with other chairs attached have to be guided past them in order to plug the other chairs in. The separate loose jaw avoids the need for this guiding process, as the loose jaws are slotted in after the stock rail is plugged using the rest of the other chair plugs.
Both methods probably need a dab of superglue to complete.
I have now printed some S1 and P slide chairs with loose jaws and am having go assembling them.
Although (in 4mm) the loose jaws are tiny they do work.
Having detached a pile of loose jaws, In practice in takes me about 15 seconds per jaw to pick up a jaw in a pair of cermaic nosed tweezers (the type sold for vape users, not that i do) and insert into the slot and then press home.
This with the aid of a cheap illumintaed magnifying glass on a stand
Some might prefer the fixed jaw slide chairs, so perhaps we can persuade Martin to add a tick box option for this?
Steve
 
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Some might prefer the fixed jaw slide chairs, so perhaps we can persuade Martin to add a tick box option for this?
@Hayfield @Steve_Cornford

Hi John, Steve,

No persuading needed, every single thing will eventually have a tickbox or a dimension adjustment. At present for my experiments it's a single setting which affects the entire export file:

loose_jaw_option.png


But that will change when I have worked out a proper user interface for all this stuff. In the end I want to be able to select any single chair anywhere and change it to some other chair, or change something about it. Or all the similar chairs, or all the nearby chairs, or whatever. That's a process I have provisionally called "chair heaving". :) I am nowhere near getting any of that done yet, I'm still at the experimental stage of finding out what works and what doesn't work. Until we know that there is no point in doing anything else.

John, the problem with the 1-piece slide chairs is that as Steve says they are a bit tricky to install.

You can't slide them on the rail, so you have to insert them loosely in their sockets in advance. But not firm them down, because installing the plug-in stock rail causes it to move down gradually as you firm back and forth along it. That would break the jaws on the slide chairs if they were already firmed down. So you must leave the slide chairs loose in their sockets, hook the chaired stock rail under their jaws while the stock rail chairs are still loose in the sockets, and then firm down all the stock rail chairs, including the slide chairs, at the same time.

For a single turnout there is probably some wriggle room in that process, and you might prefer to slide the stock rail out of the way.

But for switches within more complex formations, such as within a slip, you don't have so much freedom. In such cases having the loose jaws would make it a lot easier. The slide chair bases can be fully installed before you do anything else. The turnout or slip is then built over the top of them, and inserting the loose jaws in them can wait till last.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Having laid the final section of track on my layout I thought I would share how I used the Templot 3D printed chairs to help do it quicker. Please remember that I do not use Templot chairs for turnouts I ONLY use the S1 chair that is generated through Templot but I have changed some settings to allow them to be used with card cut sleepers that I make using my Darkly Labs Emblaser 2 laser cutter.

I have used a few different methods of cutting the sleepers but found the following system the easiest. Having said that I am building a small (8ft long) shunting layout and there could be better ways which I haven't found yet - the next layout perhaps.

20221105_164326.jpg

Here is the cutter making a strip of timbers. The material is 1.5mm mounting board, readily available for picture framing and you can get it easily at Hobbycraft and other stationery suppliers. The slots for the chairs is cut initially followed by the centres and finally a perimeter cut which leaves a scale length section of track base.

20221106_154150.jpg


The next step is to thread a rail with the correct number of chairs and space them out roughly. Having placed the card sleepers on a piece of a plastic bag and using a 20 minute setting epoxy glue I place a small drop in the chair socket. The chairs are then spread out dropping them into the socket and lead weights placed whilst the glue sets.

20221110_112544.jpg


The result is a one-railed track panel which is ready for forming for any curve so the next process is to cut out the web spacers.

20221110_112825.jpg


The sleepers can then be glued in place (PVA) and the second rail is threaded with corresponding chairs. Once the glue is set the second rail chairs are glued in place, again with 20 minute epoxy, and weighted down.
20221110_120535.jpg

And finally once all is dry the second web spacers are cut away leaving ready chaired track.

I must add that this is my preferred way to do it and only used the Templot generated S1 chairs as part of the process. Thanks for Martin this has saved me time and money and in my view produces a neat way to lay plain track.
20221110_140827.jpg

20221117_120241.jpg


I hope this encourages others to have a go and you have found it interesting.

Ralph

Edited to correct typo.
 
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Did you shake the bottle of resin well before use? You may have an imperfect mix if it has settled in the bottom of the bottle. The instructions say to shake it well, but don't explain how to deal with the fact that it is then frothy when you pour it out. I have learned the hard way to shake it an hour or so before I need it and leave it to settle in the bottle. This is all the typical learning on the job that they never put in the instructions. :(
@Steve_Cornford

This guy seems to know what he is talking about. The chemistry lesson is a bit tedious, but the final part about safety and disposal is very informative:




p.s. Shake it again! :)

Martin.
 
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.
Next order from Amazon for the 3D printing den:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09LCDM336

Resin got very frothy from shaking yesterday. :(

Left it 24 hours to settle, then reverted to my old trick from photographic developing days -- chuck glass marbles into the bottle until it's brimful with no air. Then put the cap on and shake it. Hold something across the opening while pouring it out in case one tries to escape.

I even found my old tin of marbles behind some bottles of Acutol. Not quite enough so I've ordered some more. Marbles I mean, not Acutol. :)

Wash them in IPA before first use. And then 3D-print one of these:


cheers,

Martin.
 
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.
Currently on offer in the middle of Lidl is a wallet of 10 fine-pointed tweezers for £6:

lidl_tweezers1.jpg


lidl_tweezers2.jpg


They are not the self-locking type, but do have very fine points and look to be very handy for general modelling and handling track chairs.

There are 10 different designs marked with different part numbers, although several of them are very similar, just different lengths.

ESD insulating coating, so can be safely used to handle sensitive electronic components if needed. The coating also gives them a good non-slip feel.

Worth a look if you are making plug track and happen to be in Lidl. They also have eggs suitable for boiling. :)

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,

I just read your comments in the post above referencing an experimental laser-cut turnout base I'd given to John a while back.
Just for clarity, and to avoid any doubt, it was more of an experiment in seeing what I could do in terms of exporting from Templot in Solidworks and other CAD software that I use. I hadn't intended for it to appear in the public domain.
All of your observations regarding the piece are spot on, especially the reference to the crossing chairs. I think from memory, none of the 'vectors' in that particular file were as delivered from Templot, in that I'd messed with all of it post-Templot. The fact that the ply is also too thick to be compatible with other systems is another mark against it.
I note your concern with my experiment, which I hope in no way influences others or detracts from your direction of travel with this project all of which has been a joy to behold. That is why to-date I have not posted anything myself with regard to my personal experiments either here or on YouTube as I understand the job is a work-in-progress and I would want to confuse things. For reference, I have built several test pieces using FDM bases, in addition to laser-cut, and have found the controls built into Templot to produce excellent results with no additional CAD input at all.
I so enjoy using templot, and felt it necessary to acknowledge your comments and clarify that I would never intend to cause a distraction.
I regret not noticing it up sooner.
All the best,
James
 
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@James Walters @Steve_Cornford

Hi James,

No worries, thanks for writing. And for your excellent Bexhill videos. :)

As usual, I've got in a bit of muddle. I'm not too sure which post of mine you are referring to? Did you do the samples of laser-cut bases which Steve sent me? He was (still is?) using narrower 1.7mm plugs instead of the 2.0mm wide plugs which I'm using in the plug track.

Without a laser-cutter machine here, I'm a bit lost when it comes to discussing laser-cutting for plug track. I have no idea what typical cutting resolution the machines achieve, or how the home machines compare with the results from commercial firms. The Gauge 0 Guild Gazette has ads for laser cutters costing £8K. I don't know how many modellers are using such machines -- presumably not many. Or what settings they offer which are not available on the lower-cost machines. Ideally we could do with an official laser-cutter correspondent to take over all Q&A on the subject for plug track. :)

Today I'm doing battle with the computer code for the angled check-end chairs. They look simple enough, but are actually the most tricky part of the special crossing chairs, because of all the adjustments available on the check rail flared ends. I need a boiled egg.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Thanks Martin, I'd be delighted to offer my machine up for any experiment you'd like to try. Popping bits and pieces in the post to you for expert evaluation would be no trouble either as I'm doing it most days anyway.
I have been tinkering with different 'recipe' ideas with the laser and results are very encouraging indeed.
FYI, I have a 100w laser with a 1500x1000mm bed, so it's capable of cutting quite impressive formations in one go. :)
I'd love to chat with you about my experiments at some point.
Best,
James
 
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FYI, I have a 100w laser with a 1500x1000mm bed, so it's capable of cutting quite impressive formations in one go. :)
I'd love to chat with you about my experiments at some point.
@James Walters

Hi James,

That's great. But how typical is that of the laser cutter a typical Templot user might have? Or conversely how typical is it of the laser cutter a commercial firm might have if they were sent Templot files for cutting?

For example, I could add some tick-boxes for "output suitable for for home laser cutter", "output suitable for commercial laser cutting", if I had the faintest idea what the different settings might be. I can imagine differences in the kerf width, differences in the socket tolerances etc. All this can be set by the user of course, but my aim is to arrive at a system where folks can create plug track almost as easily as printing a paper template, with the default settings in Templot.

We have a Zoom meeting at 8pm tonight if you would like to chat about this? :)

Details: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/zoom-meetings-access-links.620/latest

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
This is almost identical to the Enjoywood CEL e10 which I bought 6 months ago.
Mine will easily cut 10mm ply and has a very fine kerf line.
I've just purchased an enclosure for it together with an air assist kit so I can use it safely.
So far I've used it to cut some platform profiles but I'm going to experiment with timbers
Cheers
Charles
 
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Hi Martin,
That looks very interesting, I bought the Laser tree 10W laser. Note that's output power (same as this one I believe) which has not arrived yet. Similar price for the laser head only.
The narrow cut kerf on this one sounds very promising. I hope I don't end up have to end up with two laser heads :)

On the net everybody is saying the air assist is critical both for smoke removal but also for laser accuracy, however in its most basic form it can be a cheap aquarium air pump and a 3D printed nozzle at the Laser head. (a few on Thingeverse).
I agree with Charles's comments about the cover, my plan is to build a cover for the complete unit this weekend.

I went with the Masuter Pro only because you get a more sturdy frame and in theory at least, it can do a similar job to say a 3018 CNC machine, as well as act as a laser frame. If you go with this type of laser machine complete with frame, it seems its only strong enough to support the laser, which is a non contact cuter.

May be you should check if your CNC machine can take a laser head, it most likely can, all be it you will get a smaller cut area.
Once my laser head arrives, I will do some tests and report back on accuracy and repeatability.
cheers
Phil
 
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Hi Martin,
Just a quick comment about the idea of laser cutting the timbers, I am envisioning for something like a crossover the laser should basically remove any need to print a template and then build it to the print. In reality you could also that with both plain track and simple turnouts. However the poor use of the wood, would make that an expensive way to build track.
This Idea may not work, but I think it worth experimenting with.
If you find you need to have 3 dimensional capacity at the vee, I am thinking/hoping that's where the router option comes into play.
just an other idea to throw into the mix.
Cheers
Phil.
 
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message ref: 6499
Hi Martin,
Just a quick comment about the idea of laser cutting the timbers, I am envisioning for something like a crossover the laser should basically remove any need to print a template and then build it to the print. In reality you could also that with both plain track and simple turnouts. However the poor use of the wood, would make that an expensive way to build track.
This Idea may not work, but I think it worth experimenting with.
If you find you need to have 3 dimensional capacity at the vee, I am thinking/hoping that's where the router option comes into play.
just an other idea to throw into the mix.
Cheers
Phil.
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Until I have got to the stage where we can create full turnouts, crossovers, etc., the whole question of how to install plug track on the baseboard is conjecture. There are lots of ideas to try. :)

There are some existing suppliers of plain laser-cut timberIng bases as an alternative to a paper template. In the days before plug track I was quite rude about them, being an expensive and wasteful way of building track which actually makes it more difficult to build than sticking individual timbers on a paper template. There are details marked on the template which you need to refer to. And any time saved in not having to stick the timbers on the template (an easy task) is completely cancelled out by the time and effort involved in removing the webs under the rail after assembly without damaging the track.

Plug track changes that by doing all the gauging and rail alignments for you. But it is still wasteful of expensive plywood if a large station throat or junction is going to be cut out of a single sheet of ply.

For FDM timbering the tommy bar part of the connector clips includes a hole for a 1mm veneer pin (moulding pin) which can be used to align track on the baseboard without needing a paper template. As many additional tommy bars can be added to a timbering brick as needed, they don't have to be part of a full clip. I derived the connector clips from the target marks in the background shapes for the very reason of using them for baseboard alignment. The 1mm pin hole is square so that it can be a close-tolerance bash fit on a veneer pin:

index.php



https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moulding-Pins-Veneer-Bright-Steel/dp/B00CX20K4O

The same thing could be done with timbering bricks for laser-cut bases, so avoiding wasting so much plywood. But without a laser-cutter of my own to try things, I don't have any idea what is feasible or what dimensions to use for such a clip. The existing size would be very fragile in plywood, at least in 4mm scale.

May be you should check if your CNC machine can take a laser head, it most likely can, all be it you will get a smaller cut area.

It can do, but it would need an external power supply for the laser, switched via a relay on the spindle motor supply. The motor supply is PWM speed controlled, but a relay wouldn't mind that. I can do all that one day. The problem is where to put it. There are ferrous parts in the CNC machine (slide rails, axis screws, spindle, collets, etc.) which will rust if left in an unheated outbuilding. I have a bench in there which I could use, but stored underneath it is the petrol mower, so that would need to go somewhere else. I suspect it's not a good idea to have a laser-cutter within shouting distance of petrol. The same applies to the tubs of IPA in the 3D printing den. All this applies with equal force if I get a full laser cutter of course.

And I don't really want to tie up the CNC machine as a laser cutter, or keep swapping it back and forth. I'm still keen to develop the CNC milling for the plug track:

index.php


Which is also a bit wasteful, but MDF is a lot less expensive than quality plywood.

The timbers need to be milled only about 1mm deep (deeper for the sockets), so if milled into say 5mm or 6mm MDF the track panels may be self-supporting and not need a baseboard surface? They could be fixed directly to baseboard frames of open-top design under the trackbed.

Milling is much faster than FDM printing, if a lot noisier, but unlike FDM it needs constant attention for tool changes, etc.

If I could just get to the stage of having the crossing chairs done, I have a head full of such ideas I want to try for track building and laying with plug track. But nothing much can be done until we have full turnouts possible.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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