Templot Club forums powered for Martin Wynne by XenForo :

TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

   Templot5 - To join this open-source project on GitHub click here.  For news of the latest on-going developments click here.  Templot5 is now included with Templot2 - download.        WIKI

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

COT track build explained

Quick reply >
COT track is the name for Templot 3D printing where we print the chairs and sleepers/timbers at the same time using FDM (filament) printers, this is ideally suited for 7mm scale and above, you need only 1 printer and rails are threaded on to the track base, the system has been designed to be easy to use.

Like plug track the idea was to make the build process as easy as possible. With the exception of the rail filing jigs, no gauges or special tools are required. Nor do you have to build any complicated subassemblies. You will find the build process slightly different to traditional methods, hopefully very much simpler

The filament we use is PLA+, this is important as we need the chairs to have a bit of elasticity when we thread pre-curved/bent* rails through the chairs
* I am talking about gentle curves and bends (see wing rail fitting method later in the topic)

All rails should be prepared, firstly file off all the burrs after cutting the rails, and square off the ends. Then with files slightly chamfer the foot and webs at both ends, this makes fitting the rails much easier and prevents breaking chairs

I thought I would share one of my builds which is a 31.5 (0MF) gauge A-5 turnout

For now I will bypass turning a 2D template into a 3D printable file, which can be the subject of a separate file and leave filing jigs to another topic. There is a guide to using the filing jigs on this link https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/how-to-using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.1049/


1732275478208.png


As can be seen from the template the A5 turnout is 450mm long, the issue in printing my bed is 210mm so I have to print the template in 3 sections (in Templot we call these bricks) I will leave making the print files to a separate topic

217.jpeg


Here are the 3 prints, I have found that in 7mm scale brick joining clips are not necessary, as code 125 rail is strong enough to firmly hold all together, others may feel clips are required, simply a personal choice. Templot has a system of printed clip connectors you can use.

The center brick was printed over size then all 3 bricks were trimmed to fit, photo shows 2 timbers discarded

218.jpeg


Here we have an A5 turnout base ready for the rails to be fitted. If I created this in traditional method it would have taken me hours to get this far

212.jpeg


I start the build first with the heal brick, this is where most of the work happens and as you can see the wing rail jaws are separate from the chairs at the wing rail area. This is to make assembly of the wing rails much easier, whilst preserving the prototypical bend at the knuckle

But before I start explaining the build process, I must describe the common crossing, as it differs from the normal turnout build practice.
Firstly there are the prototype spacer blocks (in the center between the timbers), these ensure the vee and wing rails are held in the correct position
Secondly you will see three of the central common crossing chairs have no outer jaws, the separate jaws have been printed between the timbers instead, this is to aid fitting the wing rails

223.jpeg


Using a Vee rail filing jig,(Jigs will be covered in another topic) you file one side only of both Vee rails, this is how the locating chair block is designed to accept the rail. The two Vee rails are prepared this way and simply slide into position. It is important that the rail on the "straight-ahead" side is put in first. Also make sure the rails are the right way up in the jig when you are filing them. They won't fit in the chairs upside down. The thick edge of the rail is at the top.

Once you are happy with the positions you may wish to apply a small spot of superglue to one chair to hold all in position

224.jpeg


The rails simply slide into position, you may prefer a spot of superglue to hold the rails securely in position

225.jpeg


Wing and check rails can now be formed, tip is not to over bend the rails. Chamfer the rail ends to aid fitting the rail at both ends on the foot and web

226.jpeg


Second tip is to make a short rail with a pronounced chamfer at one end, to slide the rail through the chairs to clear out any debris left by the printing process. All rails need preparing by slightly filing the ends of both the feet of the rail and webs, simply to aid threading the rail through the chairs

227.jpeg


First up is to gently thread the wing rails through the chairs (from the heal end) one at a time. When bending the wing rails you need to very slightly under bend the rail, so that the wing rail sits against the Vee, too much will break the two whole chairs. If a chair does break, super glue it back.

228.jpeg


Next up again gently thread the check rails through the chairs, I have found that if the check rail flares at the ends mirror the plan there is enough give in the jaws, too much flaring is both un-prototypical and could damage the jaws. Again a spot of superglue may be required to hold each rail in position.

229.jpeg


It might be better to cut the wing rail chair jaws one at a time, as each one is specific to its position. Trim to fit and glue (2 part epoxy) in place, the holes in the chair bases is for glue to have a better key.

230.jpeg


Do each chair jaw in turn (2 stuck in place)

231.jpeg


All chairs glued in place

232.jpeg


Now prepare the stock rails. The straight stock rail just needs both ends prepared, The curved stock rail needs the set bent in place, then gently curve the center of the stock rail guided by the plan

235.jpeg


The set bend is very important, as it allows the switch rail to maintain the gauge

233.jpeg


The straight stock rail is simply gently slid in place, I find from the heal is the easiest

234.jpeg


Then the curved stock rail is slid into position, but I find this time from the toe end

243.jpeg


Next up is to make both switch rails and slide into place

242.jpeg
247.jpeg


I use the Exactoscale H section functionable plastic fishplates, these both align the rails (if needed) and form an electrical isolation


246.jpeg



Second switch rail fitted, now waiting for a temporary tiebar for testing

I also fit electrical bonding wires, across the common crossing (which if left long can be used as a dropper wire) and electrically bond the switch rails to their stock rail.

As you can see how easy it is to build a turnout using the COT track system, no complicated soldered sub assemblies, gauges to test only and no waiting for glue to set or hours of soldering

Best of all is the level of chair detail obtained using this process, ability to alter the geometry in the design process and it does to break the bank in costs
 
_______________
message ref: 15172
John,

I think that post merits a link from the Wiki. So far beyond my pay grade.
Phil

Thanks, Martin has asked me to do something for Wiki, not really my skill set but I have given it a go

It needs a companion re jigs which I am happy to have a stab at

As for making 2D into 3D print files I may need a collaborator

Happy for someone to edit what I have written and or add omissions

Off for a boiled egg Soup infact

John
 
_______________
message ref: 15175
@Hayfield @Phil O @Steve_Cornford

Many thanks John, that's great. (y)

Phil, ideally in the end it would be copied and pasted into the Wiki as normal Wiki content. However it is a good idea to have it posted here first so that any changes/updates can be made by John in response to comments. Initially it can be included in the Wiki by embedding from here (as is done with most of the Companion pages). To do that:

1. right-click the printer icon on the post:


post_print_icon.png



And click Copy link address or Copy Link (or whatever wording your browser uses).

For John's post it will be: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/15172/printfriendly

2. In the Wiki you just need one line, like this, with 2 curly brackets at each end:

{{url>https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/15172/printfriendly 100%, 5000px, noborder}}

It's important to get the commas and spaces in the right place, so you may want to copy and paste the full line above first.

The middle bit is the link you just copied, pasted in. Make sure there is a space at the end of it.

The 5000 will be the length of the Wiki page. After you do a Preview in the Wiki you may want to increase this to remove the double scroll bars, or reduce it to avoid a lot of unused space at the bottom.

You can't do any harm if it goes wrong -- just edit it until it doesn't. :)

You might want to try it in the playground area first.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 15178
As I said to Phil, if it is to go into Wicki it needs editing and if there are any omissions or corrections needed please let me know

I am more than happy for this to be a collaboration as writeups/tuitions are not my bag

Happy to do a write up for the filing jigs unless someone else fancies a go
 
_______________
message ref: 15180
COT track is the name for Templot 3D printing where we print the chairs and sleepers/timbers at the same time using FDM (filament) printers, this is ideally suited for 7mm scale and above, simply you need only 1 printer and rails are threaded on to the track base, the system has been designed to be easy to use

I thought I would share one of my builds which is a 31.5 (0MF) gauge A-5 turnout

For now I will bypass turning a 2D template into a 3D printable file, which can be the subject of a separate file and leave filing jigs to another thread

View attachment 12825

As can be seen from the template the A5 turnout is 450mm long, the issue in printing my bed is 210mm so I have to print the template in 3 sections (in Templot we call these bricks) I will leave making the print files to a separate topic

View attachment 12827

Here are the 3 prints, I have found that in 7mm scale brick joining clips are not necessary, as code 125 rail is strong enough to firmly hold all together, others may feel clips are required, simply a personal choice.

The center brick was printed over size then all 3 bricks were trimmed to fit, photo shows 2 timbers discarded

View attachment 12828

Here we have an A5 turnout base ready for the rails to be fitted. If I created this in traditional method it would have taken me hours to get this far

View attachment 12831

I start the build first with the heal brick, this is where most of the work happens and as you can see the wing rail jaws are separate from the chairs at the wing rail area. This is to make assembly of the wing rails much easier, whilst preserving the prototypical bend at the knuckle

View attachment 12829

Using a Vee rail filing jig,(Jigs will be covered in another topic) the two Vee rails are prepared and simply slid into position

View attachment 12830

The rails simply slide into position, you may prefer a spot of superglue to hold the rails securely in position

View attachment 12832

Wing and check rails can now be formed, tip is not to over bend the rails. Camphor the rail ends to aid fitting the rail at both ends on the foot and web

View attachment 12833

Second tip is to make a short rail with a pronounced camphor at one end, to slide the rail through the chairs to clear out any debris left by the printing process. All rails need preparing by slightly filing the ends of both the feet of the rail and webs, simply to aid threading the rail through the chairs

View attachment 12834

First up is to gently thread the wing rails through the chairs (from the heal end) one at a time. If a chair does break, super glue it back.

View attachment 12835

Next up again gently thread the check rails through the chairs. Again a spot of superglue may be required to hold each rail in position.

View attachment 12836

It might be better to cut the wing rail chair jaws one at a time, as each one is specific to its position. Trim to fit and glue (2 part epoxy) in place, the holes in the chair bases is for glue to have a better key.

View attachment 12837

Do each chair jaw in turn (2 stuck in place)

View attachment 12838

All chairs glued in place

View attachment 12839

Now prepare the stock rails. The straight stock rail just needs both ends prepared, The wing rails need the set bent in place, then gently curve the center of the stock rail guided by the plan

View attachment 12840

The set bend is very important, as it allows the switch rail to maintain the gauge

View attachment 12841

The straight stock rail is simply gently slid in place, I find from the heal is the easiest

View attachment 12842

Then the curved stock rail is slid into position, but I find this time from the toe end

View attachment 12843

Next up is to make both switch rails and slide into place

View attachment 12844View attachment 12846

I use the Exactoscale H section functionable plastic fishplates, these both align the rails (if needed) and form an electrical isolation


View attachment 12845


Second switch rail fitted, now waiting for a temporary tiebar for testing

I also fit electrical bonding wires, across the common crossing (which if left long can be used as a dropper wire) and electrically bond the switch rails to their stock rail.

As you can see how easy it is to build a turnout using the COT track system, no complicated soldered together sub assemblies, gauges to test only and no waiting for glue to set or hours of soldering

Best of all is the level of chair detail obtained using this process, ability to alter the geometry in the design process and it does to break the bank in costs
Hi John,
Firstly well done that's a great pictorial deception of building a cot turnout.

Just a question though on the 7th photo from the end you mention the need for the set bend to allow for the switch rails to sit correctly which makes total sense.
On the next photo you mentioned feeding the straight stock rail in from the heel end. Does that not mean your forcing the set bend down most of the chairs? I would have though coming from the toe end mitigated the number of chairs the set bend needed to travel though. I assume there is a reason you find it better to come from the heel end. If I was wondering why that was? for the curved stock rail you do it the way I would have expected.

One other question and its not churlish, is Camphor a misspelling of chamfer? I though it was at first, but I then googled camphor and it turns out it is a purchasable product, and its described as a waxy like substance from the camphor tree. So I wondered if it is the correctly spelling and your using it as a lubricant to help the rails slide though the chairs.
cheers
Phil,
 
_______________
message ref: 15183
On the next photo you mentioned feeding the straight stock rail in from the heel end. Does that not mean your forcing the set bend down most of the chairs?
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

There is no set in the the MS (straight) stock rail.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 15184
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

There is no set in the the MS (straight) stock rail.

cheers,

Martin.
Oh!! I had assumed both rails needed a set to allow the switch blades to sit correctly. I maybe be getting mistaken with a joggle thinking about it. More learnings. All I need to do is remember it now :)
That then explains why John does it the way he does !!
cheers
Phil,
 
_______________
message ref: 15186
_______________
message ref: 15193
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

See: https://c7514493.myzen.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=real_track

Click setting the stock rail.

p.s. that page has been on the Templot web site for over 20 years. :)

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,
I know now I dug it up and had a look after your first post, I never quite realised until now the set needs to be made in a vice before any curving of the turnout stock rail. Its in realty set straight angle before any curving latter down the turnout stock rail
cheers
Phil
 
_______________
message ref: 15194
#Phil G # Martin

Phil

Thanks for spotting the spelling mistake, feel free to suggest corrections to grammar as well.
As for feeding the rails through the chairs, If the curved stock rail was fed from the heal end it would be harder to feed through, simply due to the more acute bend at the set

Martin

It might be very beneficial to add some of those wonderful diagrams you and others produce, I am thinking of the vee filing diagram and mention of only filing one side of the rail

I have also omitted a short explanation of the type of filament we use
 
_______________
message ref: 15201
#Martin #Phil O #Phil G #James

I have added a few extra explanations with regard both the common crossings and the design aims.

Sorry its getting a bit long but I am starting to realize some readers may have little knowledge of Templot 3D basics

Feel free to say if it needs altering

John
 
_______________
message ref: 15233
Hi All

John, I think you're doing a splendid job with the COT turnout, the problem seems to be that some of the newbies don't have the prototype knowledge to know how turnouts are constructed and are putting the cart before the horse. As Martin and others have said, it's well worth watching James's videos a view times in the vain hope that they will get the gist of turnout construction. I expect things will get worse when diamonds, switched diamonds and slips make an appearance.
 
_______________
message ref: 15240
I guess this occurred with Templot 2D and still does but unless someone either posts a comment (other than Templot is too difficult) of share and shows their efforts, we have no idea of newbies pain

Perhaps we need a short first steps tuition, which simply points to the threads and videos which must be read/watched before starting.

We are never going to stop those who just jump straight in. I am a prime example and needed a lot of help and guidance at first and to a certain extent still do. We (the old codgers) all should take up answering more of the basics to newcomers to leave Martin time to do h what he does best
 
_______________
message ref: 15241
Phil

I was more referring to posts and videos directly relating to 3D Templot, though prototype history would also help
 
_______________
message ref: 15244
@Hayfield

Hi John,

Your guide is great. (y)

I noticed you said:

When bending the wing rails you need to very slightly under bend the rail, so that the wing rail sits against the Vee, too much will break the two whole chairs. If a chair does break, super glue it back.

On most of the timbering bases there is only one fixed chair for the wing rail and 4 or more separate jaws:

cot_loose_wing.png


Which makes assembly much easier -- you can bend the wing rail knuckle to match the paper template exactly.

It was only on the short 1:5 crossings where there are two chairs to feed the wing rail through. I have changed that now to only one on all sizes.

(After 556b is released your post will need editing about this. This is a constant problem writing explanations while everything is still subject to change.)

p.s. which epoxy are you using? Does one mix of Araldite Rapid stay workable long enough to fix both wing rails? (Claimed 5-minute working, 20 minutes handle, 2 hours solid - faster in hot weather.)

p.p.s. if you do the check rails first, cut cocktail sticks can be wedged between the check rail and the wing rail to hold it in place while the epoxy sets. Or the stock rail -- maybe with a temporary bit of rail in the chairs for the purpose.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 15249
An excellent piece John and one I will be following just for fun as I have some rail to play with. Just a quick question, you did say you were going to do a comparison of different PLA+. If you do what was your findings as I am about to order some new filament.

Keith
 
_______________
message ref: 15252
@Hayfield

Hi John,

Your guide is great. (y)

I noticed you said:



On most of the timbering bases there is only one fixed chair for the wing rail and 4 or more separate jaws:

View attachment 12915

Which makes assembly much easier -- you can bend the wing rail knuckle to match the paper template exactly.

It was only on the short 1:5 crossings where there are two chairs to feed the wing rail through. I have changed that now to only one on all sizes.

(After 556b is released your post will need editing about this. This is a constant problem writing explanations while everything is still subject to change.)

p.s. which epoxy are you using? Does one mix of Araldite Rapid stay workable long enough to fix both wing rails? (Claimed 5-minute working, 20 minutes handle, 2 hours solid - faster in hot weather.)

p.p.s. if you do the check rails first, cut cocktail sticks can be wedged between the check rail and the wing rail to hold it in place while the epoxy sets. Or the stock rail -- maybe with a temporary bit of rail in the chairs for the purpose.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin

Thanks for both the update and the suggestions.

I use 5 min epoxy, I always make both wing rails together, but if the glue sets I just mix more. I always make small batches and with Zac Attack it comes in bottles not tubes which I find easier to use.

Dont buy cheap glue, its false economy
 
_______________
message ref: 15256
with Zac Attack it comes in bottles not tubes which I find easier to use.
@Hayfield

Hi John,

Do you have a link?

I found Zenith Adhesive Components in Ireland but I can't find Zac Attack. :unsure:

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 15257
Back
Top