Double junction, where am I going wrong!

Martin Wynne

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West of the Severn UK
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When creating a double junction with the help of your video (https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=z3LZpZ1HyGx4Mzpft5UXUA2) as a guide I always end up with the adjacent track spacing on the main being slightly skewed. Where am I going wrong?

Also, can I print a chair map so I get the correct chair type and number as per the prototype?

Hi Roger,

It's difficult to say where you are going wrong without seeing what you have done. Perhaps you could post a screenshot or attach your box file?

There isn't a single prototype chairing layout for a double-junction. A double-junction is usually designed specifically for the site, and each company had its own ideas on how to arrange the chairing.

For the switches and crossings, the detailed chairing can be seen on the templates which are available for downloading from the Exactoscale web site:

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

Click the light blue text to download the PDF files. Which can be zoomed in a long way to reveal a lot of chair detail.

Templot hasn't until now concerned itself with chairing, it's more concerned with track geometry. However that is now changing with the increasing interest in 3D printing.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 769
Hi Roger,

It's difficult to say where you are going wrong without seeing what you have done. Perhaps you could post a screenshot or attach your box file?

There isn't a single prototype chairing layout for a double-junction. A double-junction is usually designed specifically for the site, and each company had its own ideas on how to arrange the chairing.

For the switches and crossings, the detailed chairing can be seen on the templates which are available for downloading from the Exactoscale web site:

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

Click the light blue text to download the PDF files. Which can be zoomed in a long way to reveal a lot of chair detail.

Templot hasn't until now concerned itself with chairing, it's more concerned with track geometry. However that is now changing with the increasing interest in 3D printing.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

I really appreciate you replying to my question, and I hope I have uploaded the screen shot and box file okay. When I put the Templot ruler on each end of the mainline the adjacent track centre spacing is out a couple of mm from one end to the other, it gets worse as I lengthen the track.

roger_screenshot.png


Cheers

Roger
 

Attachments

  • test of track centre spacingl_2021_03_12_1614_17.box
    62.7 KB · Views: 75
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message ref: 774

Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
Hi Martin,

I really appreciate you replying to my question, and I hope I have uploaded the screen shot and box file okay. When I put the Templot ruler on each end of the mainline the adjacent track centre spacing is out a couple of mm from one end to the other, it gets worse as I lengthen the track.

Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 775
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

It's not a problem. Sorry I didn't report this sooner as I had been trying a few variations over the last couple of months to try and find where the problem was. But on Friday decided I needed help from the Group! I will try the new method you describe later today, I'm sure all will be fine.

Thanks for the link on your previous message regarding Exactoscale chairs.

Sorry I appear to have found you more work to do..

Cheers,

Roger
 
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message ref: 803
Hi Martin,

I've tried the revised method you sent and I'm pleased to say it has now corrected the track spacing. I have uploaded the .box file, it may be a little untidy but I hope its okay?

Cheers,

Roger.
 

Attachments

  • Martin's revised mainline junction 2021_03_14_1310_48.box
    99.1 KB · Views: 77
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message ref: 807
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

I will try not to bother you on this subject again but I think I am ready to build the formation that I have uploaded. Not much has changed but I seem to have messed up the sleepers/timbering when I was adding the outer main turnout, it appears I have one too many timbers in the diamond? I would like to print to PDF and try and get it printed at a print shop so I can begin the build this weekend!

trackpad_screenshot_2021_03_19_1252_36.png


Any help is much appreciated,

Cheers,

Roger.
 

Attachments

  • revised 1 with B6_2021_03_19_1141_12.box
    73.5 KB · Views: 76
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message ref: 872

Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
Hi Roger,

I've done a bit of timber shoving for you. Box file attached.

cheers,

Martin.
 

Attachments

  • roger_double_junction_shoved.box
    72.1 KB · Views: 91
_______________
message ref: 874

Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
Something more for me to learn now - shove timbers!

Hi Roger,

Just press the comma key. Then click on a timber number (not on the timber).

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 877
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

It's that time of year again!

I want to make another double junction as above but with the two diverging tracks immediately merging into one. My question is, has the 'make curviform ladder' function being removed from Templot and if so, do I use the method above?

Thanks in advance.

Roger
 
_______________
message ref: 3365

Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
It's that time of year again!

I want to make another double junction as above but with the two diverging tracks immediately merging into one. My question is, has the 'make curviform ladder' function being removed from Templot and if so, do I use the method above?
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

The double-junction time of year? :)

This hinges on the word "immediately".

You could use a half-scissors to get the tracks merging as close to the junction as possible:

roger1.png


Or something a little wider:

roger2.png


The overall length of the junction isn't much different, the choice would depend on the site -- for example if the junction is in a cramped site, or maybe a steep cutting, the half-scissors might be used. It would be more fun to build. :)

In a really tight space it could even be done as an outside slip. Or it could go even wider by moving the turnouts further apart, if it's no problem to lengthen the junction.

For the diamond the previous method still applies. I haven't yet done anything to restore the curviform ladder function. It's probably not needed as the above method is not too difficult.

happy Christmas,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 3371
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

The double-junction time of year? :)

This hinges on the word "immediately".

You could use a half-scissors to get the tracks merging as close to the junction as possible:

View attachment 2840

Or something a little wider:

View attachment 2839

The overall length of the junction isn't much different, the choice would depend on the site -- for example if the junction is in a cramped site, or maybe a steep cutting, the half-scissors might be used. It would be more fun to build. :)

In a really tight space it could even be done as an outside slip. Or it could go even wider by moving the turnouts further apart, if it's no problem to lengthen the junction.

For the diamond the previous method still applies. I haven't yet done anything to restore the curviform ladder function. It's probably not needed as the above method is not too difficult.

happy Christmas,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

Thanks yet again!

The examples you've sent look like just what I need, so you've done most of the work for me, thanks. I will be tempted now to have a go at your first example given your comment "fun to build" and why not as its Christmas. I now need to learn about 'half scissors', and how to create them. I can see I'll be busy over Christmas, but what could be better than working on a railway project.

Happy Christmas,

Roger
 
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message ref: 3387
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