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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Double junction, where am I going wrong!

Quick reply >
When creating a double junction with the help of your video (https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=z3LZpZ1HyGx4Mzpft5UXUA2) as a guide I always end up with the adjacent track spacing on the main being slightly skewed. Where am I going wrong?

Also, can I print a chair map so I get the correct chair type and number as per the prototype?

Hi Roger,

It's difficult to say where you are going wrong without seeing what you have done. Perhaps you could post a screenshot or attach your box file?

There isn't a single prototype chairing layout for a double-junction. A double-junction is usually designed specifically for the site, and each company had its own ideas on how to arrange the chairing.

For the switches and crossings, the detailed chairing can be seen on the templates which are available for downloading from the Exactoscale web site:

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

Click the light blue text to download the PDF files. Which can be zoomed in a long way to reveal a lot of chair detail.

Templot hasn't until now concerned itself with chairing, it's more concerned with track geometry. However that is now changing with the increasing interest in 3D printing.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 769
Hi Roger,

It's difficult to say where you are going wrong without seeing what you have done. Perhaps you could post a screenshot or attach your box file?

There isn't a single prototype chairing layout for a double-junction. A double-junction is usually designed specifically for the site, and each company had its own ideas on how to arrange the chairing.

For the switches and crossings, the detailed chairing can be seen on the templates which are available for downloading from the Exactoscale web site:

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

Click the light blue text to download the PDF files. Which can be zoomed in a long way to reveal a lot of chair detail.

Templot hasn't until now concerned itself with chairing, it's more concerned with track geometry. However that is now changing with the increasing interest in 3D printing.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

I really appreciate you replying to my question, and I hope I have uploaded the screen shot and box file okay. When I put the Templot ruler on each end of the mainline the adjacent track centre spacing is out a couple of mm from one end to the other, it gets worse as I lengthen the track.

roger_screenshot.png


Cheers

Roger
 

Attachments

  • test of track centre spacingl_2021_03_12_1614_17.box
    62.7 KB · Views: 207
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message ref: 774
Hi Martin,

I really appreciate you replying to my question, and I hope I have uploaded the screen shot and box file okay. When I put the Templot ruler on each end of the mainline the adjacent track centre spacing is out a couple of mm from one end to the other, it gets worse as I lengthen the track.

Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 775
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

It's not a problem. Sorry I didn't report this sooner as I had been trying a few variations over the last couple of months to try and find where the problem was. But on Friday decided I needed help from the Group! I will try the new method you describe later today, I'm sure all will be fine.

Thanks for the link on your previous message regarding Exactoscale chairs.

Sorry I appear to have found you more work to do..

Cheers,

Roger
 
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message ref: 803
Hi Martin,

I've tried the revised method you sent and I'm pleased to say it has now corrected the track spacing. I have uploaded the .box file, it may be a little untidy but I hope its okay?

Cheers,

Roger.
 

Attachments

  • Martin's revised mainline junction 2021_03_14_1310_48.box
    99.1 KB · Views: 208
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message ref: 807
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

I will try not to bother you on this subject again but I think I am ready to build the formation that I have uploaded. Not much has changed but I seem to have messed up the sleepers/timbering when I was adding the outer main turnout, it appears I have one too many timbers in the diamond? I would like to print to PDF and try and get it printed at a print shop so I can begin the build this weekend!

trackpad_screenshot_2021_03_19_1252_36.png


Any help is much appreciated,

Cheers,

Roger.
 

Attachments

  • revised 1 with B6_2021_03_19_1141_12.box
    73.5 KB · Views: 209
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message ref: 872
Hi Roger,

I've done a bit of timber shoving for you. Box file attached.

cheers,

Martin.
 

Attachments

  • roger_double_junction_shoved.box
    72.1 KB · Views: 232
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message ref: 874
Something more for me to learn now - shove timbers!

Hi Roger,

Just press the comma key. Then click on a timber number (not on the timber).

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 877
Hi Roger,

Many thanks for posting the box file and screenshot.

You are not doing anything wrong. You have found a serious bug in the program. I'm very sorry about that.

For the present, please don't use the make curviform ladder function.

For the last program update I re-worked the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. But I have failed to integrate it properly into the curviform ladder function.

To avoid the problem, please re-create your double-junction like this:

1. from the starting turnout, tools > make double-track on TS.

2. make the starting turnout the control template again. Make sure it is set to curviform V-crossing.

3. tools > make branch track.

4. click on the background plain track template, and peg/align tools > make diamond crossing at intersection.

5. choose yes, split/extend background template to fit.

6. make the control template on the inner half-diamond.

7. click on the starting turnout, and peg/align tools > extend/shorten the control template to meet at > CTRL-6 TVJP.

8. make the control template on the outer half-diamond and continue as before.

Ask again if that's not clear or doesn't work.

I'm very sorry that you have been messed about, and I now have an urgent reason to get the next program update released, with a fix for this. Thanks again for reporting it.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

It's that time of year again!

I want to make another double junction as above but with the two diverging tracks immediately merging into one. My question is, has the 'make curviform ladder' function being removed from Templot and if so, do I use the method above?

Thanks in advance.

Roger
 
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message ref: 3365
It's that time of year again!

I want to make another double junction as above but with the two diverging tracks immediately merging into one. My question is, has the 'make curviform ladder' function being removed from Templot and if so, do I use the method above?
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

The double-junction time of year? :)

This hinges on the word "immediately".

You could use a half-scissors to get the tracks merging as close to the junction as possible:

roger1.png


Or something a little wider:

roger2.png


The overall length of the junction isn't much different, the choice would depend on the site -- for example if the junction is in a cramped site, or maybe a steep cutting, the half-scissors might be used. It would be more fun to build. :)

In a really tight space it could even be done as an outside slip. Or it could go even wider by moving the turnouts further apart, if it's no problem to lengthen the junction.

For the diamond the previous method still applies. I haven't yet done anything to restore the curviform ladder function. It's probably not needed as the above method is not too difficult.

happy Christmas,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 3371
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

The double-junction time of year? :)

This hinges on the word "immediately".

You could use a half-scissors to get the tracks merging as close to the junction as possible:

View attachment 2840

Or something a little wider:

View attachment 2839

The overall length of the junction isn't much different, the choice would depend on the site -- for example if the junction is in a cramped site, or maybe a steep cutting, the half-scissors might be used. It would be more fun to build. :)

In a really tight space it could even be done as an outside slip. Or it could go even wider by moving the turnouts further apart, if it's no problem to lengthen the junction.

For the diamond the previous method still applies. I haven't yet done anything to restore the curviform ladder function. It's probably not needed as the above method is not too difficult.

happy Christmas,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

Thanks yet again!

The examples you've sent look like just what I need, so you've done most of the work for me, thanks. I will be tempted now to have a go at your first example given your comment "fun to build" and why not as its Christmas. I now need to learn about 'half scissors', and how to create them. I can see I'll be busy over Christmas, but what could be better than working on a railway project.

Happy Christmas,

Roger
 
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message ref: 3387
Hi Martin

I watched with interest last weeks Zoom meeting and hope join you for this evenings one. I found it very encouraging, in that for me at least, it could be a good way of getting more confidence in using Templot. Being an occasional user I do realise I'm not going to get the best out of it. As my main interest is live steam gauge one, the operational aspects of running live steam trains (coal and sprit fired) means compromises have to be made with complex formations.

I have had several attempts at putting a slip into the diamond of the attached box file and still can't get it right. I just thought it would add a bit of complexity to the construction stage. I've watched several videos and read up on it but still can't quite get there.

Can you point me in the right direction please. Even if it's on a Zoom meeting!

Cheers

Roger
 

Attachments

  • double_to_single_2023_02_08_1230_01.box
    120.5 KB · Views: 61
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message ref: 5892
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

Can you explain a bit more about what you are trying to do:

roger_gauge1.png


That diamond-crossing has an angle of only 1:3.43 at the K-crossings. Any inside slip you tried to insert there would have an impossibly tight radius. And there isn't enough space beyond the V-crossing for an outside slip.

If you wanted a connection between the upper turnout on the left and the outside curve beyond the diamond, it might be better to change the turnout to a tandem. We can have a look at that in the Zoom meeting tonight if you wish?

If it must be a slip road on the diamond, the diamond needs to be a much flatter angle. You could achieve that by moving both the turnouts on the left much further back from the junction.

Or was it the lower turnout on the right which you want to convert to a slip?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 5893
Hi Martin.

Thank you. I have the mainline radius set so no movement on that. I thought instead of coming off the mains with two tracks it would be interesting to have something different. I can move the two turnout back (about 18 inches before a bridge gets in the way) as you suggest but the radius (5000mm) is more or less constant there too. I'm open to any suggestions that would fit best practice and add something to the interest, and indeed the building of. I've made double junctions already and would like something a little different to develop my skills. If there is time during tonight's meeting, and it's of interest I would be pleased to have it discussed.

cheers

Roger
 
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message ref: 5894
There was an interesting chat about this last night, even the failed attempt to build an outside slip was a good reminder of keeping in mind minimum radii when designing formations. Then a tutorial how to (re)design the formation
 
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message ref: 5897
@Roger Bristow

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the chat last night. It was an interesting project, even if I did get in a few tangles. :)

Here are the BOX files.

roger_1.png


roger_2.png


roger_3.png


1 is the half-scissors oddity that we ended up with.

2 is the tandem crossover, with your original side road.

I noticed that the radius in the outer turnout was below your preferred minimum, so in 3 I have replaced it with a longer D-13 turnout, otherwise the same as 2.

I haven't done anything with the timbering, or the check rails in the tandem, over to you on that.

Let me know if anything looks wrong.

cheers,

Martin.
 

Attachments

  • roger_3.box
    123.7 KB · Views: 60
  • roger_2.box
    123.8 KB · Views: 63
  • roger_1.box
    113.8 KB · Views: 58
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message ref: 5899
Hi Roger,

You're welcome. :) It wasn't late for me, although I was ready for a drink and a bite to eat.

See you next time.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 5903
Hi Martin and Roger,

I watched the first hour or so of the Zoom meeting last night instead of my normal bedtime read. This morning I thought about the double junction, what would happen if you started by putting the first turnout in the right hand road on a 12ft radius and worked from there? Unfortunately, I have to go to Sussex shortly, otherwise I would have a go at it myself.
 
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message ref: 5922
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