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    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

DXF export with Fusion360

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Marsh Lane

Member
Location
UK
Hi Martin,
This *MAY* not be anything to do with Templot, but as I know you've been doing a lot on the export and DXF side of things for the Plug track I thought id mention it.

I have designed a small narrow gauge layout for a friend, having got everything how he wants it, I have exported the DXF from Templot as I have done previously then gone to import it into Fusion360. The import process is two parts, the first gives you a rough outline of the shape (and I can see the Templot shapes outline and track work outlines fine) from which you have the ability to position it before committing which is Phase 2. When I commit it, Fusion360 crashes every time, after just locking up for 5-10 minutes and 'Not Responding'.

I have pulled an older DXF file into Templot and that is slow importing but does work fine. Its been exported from the latest version (I updated my software yesterday) and am just wondering if anything within the DXF file make up could have got changed in relation to your recent work at all? Like I say, it may well be Fusion360 thats at fault, but I thought I'd flag it up.
Rich
 
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@Marsh Lane

Hi Rich,

Are you exporting a 2D or 3D DXF?

I've never tried importing into Fusion 360, I will try it and see. I normally use TurboCAD for my CAD stuff.

p.s. For plug track you don't need any CAD -- the STL file should be ready to print (after an online mesh repair).

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Rich,

Are you exporting a 2D or 3D DXF?

I've never tried importing into Fusion 360, I will try it and see. I normally use TurboCAD for my CAD stuff.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi @Martin Wynne
2D export, to give me the outlines in Fusion to create the baseboards and cross members. You kindly gave me advice early this year on how to do and its worked fine a couple of times over the summer when I have run out ideas and thoughts. This time just seems to be hitting an issue somewhere.
Rich
 
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@Martin Wynne
Martin - I am now thinking its a Windows Fusion issue. I had an idea about trying it on the Mac, and have just powered up Fusion360 on my iMac, sent the DXF file over the network and tried to import it through that and while its still importing, I have got further along in the process on the Mac and the programme responding all the time, plus the DXF contents have now come up on screen, which makes me think something in the Fusion codebase is causing the problem and its nothing to do with Templot.
Rich
 
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@Marsh Lane

Hi Rich,

Thanks. I have tried to open my Fusion 360 but since I installed it I have changed from Windows10 to Windows11. Consequently Fusion 360 has crashed up totally. It looks like I shall have to reinstall the whole thing from the beginning -- if I remember that requires jumping through about 27 hoops to get the free version. I didn't like it one bit in the first place -- which is why I use TurboCAD.

Instead of a DXF have you tried importing an EMF file?

export_emf.png


Before exporting be sure to set the boundary rectangle option and draw it well clear of everything you want to include in the EMF.

Make a note of the boundary dimensions (click set... button to see co-ords, subtract to find width and height), and use them to set the size in your CAD.

p.s. if you want only 2D there are lots of other free 2D CAD programs.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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@Marsh Lane

Hi Rich,

Thanks. I have tried to open my Fusion 360 but since I installed it I have changed from Windows10 to Windows11. Consequently Fusion 360 has crashed up totally. It looks like I shall have to reinstall the whole thing from the beginning -- if I remember that requires jumping through about 27 hoops to get the free version. I didn't like it one bit in the first place -- which is why I use TurboCAD.

Instead of a DXF have you tried importing an EMF file?

Before exporting be sure to set the boundary rectangle option and draw it well clear of everything you want to include in the EMF.

Make a note of the boundary dimensions (click set... button to see co-ords, subtract to find width and height), and use them to set the size in your CAD.

p.s. if you want only 2D there are lots of other free 2D CAD programs.

cheers,

Martin.

Martin,
Thanks for that, no I hadn't tried EMF, to be honest I hadn't heard of the format before you mentioned it! I'll give that a try on the PC. A good friend who does CAD design for a living taught me how to do CAD using Fusion360 and I have just stayed with it, as I have got into designing 3D buildings. I also find it helpful to design the baseboards in 3D then converted to 2D drawings for cutting. Had some good success with that method!
Rich
 
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@Marsh Lane

p.s. Rich. Inkscape (free) makes a good job of opening 2D DXF files from Templot: https://inkscape.org

You may be able to export them again in a DXF or other format which Fusion 360 will accept.

Martin.
 
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@Martin Wynne

Martin,
Could you possibly cast your eye over the attached DXF and check that all looks ok with it at your end? It did crash Fusion on the iMac in the end as well. I've opened it in DWG TrueView and that looks fine, so im sure its a Fusion issue, but just incase im missing something?
Rich
 

Attachments

  • fr009-boards.dxf
    3.9 MB · Views: 83
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@Marsh Lane

Hi Rich,

Checking all through a DXF is a marathon task!

It opens fine in TurboCAD, like this:

rich_dxf_test.png


I have exported it again from TurboCAD in DWG format, which might make Fusion 360 happier. Attached below. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 

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  • rich_test.dwg
    3.5 MB · Views: 98
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Thanks Martin, apologies I actually meant would you load it into your Turbocad to check it, I didn't mean to suggest checking the file line by line - apologies if thats how it came over. I have now got my DXF into Fusion360, by doing an upload to a project and that worked fine in about 45 seconds. So the Insert DXF function is obviously not working in Fusion!

Sorry for taking your time up this evening.
Rich
 
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Hi,
Appreciate this is opening up an old thread, but it seem I have a similar problem to the OP and just wondered if there was a workaround for it?

I am trying to export the track plan from Templot (latest version) as a 2D DXF so that I can import into Fusion360 to do some CAD work. However, a 100mm line imports at 1,000mm long. I have gone into the Output menu and selected "enlarge/reduce for PDF DXF etc.." and then selected tenth (10%) but having then re-exported it again the file size is the same size and has not been resized at all.

Just wondered if there was any thoughts. I did try the EMF option suggested above, but I dont think F360 can import EMF files - it doesn't seem to display them anyway, and I need the DXF data to be able to map close to the sleeper edging.

Richie
 
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Last edited:
Hi Richie,
The issue is not with Templot but with Fusion 360 and how it interprets units.
this is the explanation given by Autodesk,

A DXF file is a unitless file type so when Fusion reads the file, by default. It will assume that the file is in centimeters unless otherwise specified during insertion. A DWG file is exported with unit-less settings in the units in AutoCAD.12 Jan 2024
this link gives you the full explanation.

https://www.autodesk.com/support/te...:text=A DXF file is a,in the units in AutoCAD
cheers
Phil,
 
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Hi Phil,
Thanks, yes I have tried that and despite being set to mm, and all measurements in Fusion showing in mm, a 1000mm straight piece of track in Templot, shows as 10,000mm in Fusion360. I have also loaded the DXF into DWG TrueView (although it is another Autodesk piece of software) and measurements in that are showing the same thing.

A friend has imported the DXF into his work copy of Creo (another software) and tells me it does the same thing there. Following another thread on here that I found, @Martin Wynne had suggested changing the output size, which as I mentioned above I tried. However, I have now run the file out with output size set to 100%, 10% and 200% and the DXF file never changes. I dont know enough about all of this stuff, but I wondered whether any of the changes for the 3D printing could have affected the DXF output?

Richie
 
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However, I have now run the file out with output size set to 100%, 10% and 200% and the DXF file never changes.
@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

Did you tick this option:


dxf_scaling.png



The export is scaled to match the output menu only if the above option is set.

DXF files contain only numbers, with no indication of what units they represent. When importing a DXF file into any software it is important to set the required units first. In most CAD programs, after selecting the DXF file type in the Open dialog, usually a button appears for options or setup where you can set the required units before opening the file. Sorry I don't know the specifics for Fusion 360.

Templot can export DXF in mm or inches (see above), and the chosen setting is included in the default DXF file name for reference.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Richie,
I suspect your trying to open the DXF in F360? Don't do it that way.
open F360 and the go to insert tab and then insert DXF.
follow the prompts, select the plane and then select the file you want to open ( for where you have stored it on your hard drive) it will then ask you for units, select mm and it will open the DXF to the right scale for you.
cheers
Phil
Ps I believe Creo works in exactly the same way.
 
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Hi Martin,
your quite right the only thing you should set in Templot for DFX export is if you want mm or inch I would say 99% of the time its mm or 1% inch. if you try to scale it could go very wrong very quickly.

It's important when opening a DXF in cad to ensure the cad package understands what units it has.

AutoCAD will default to whatever units you have previously set in AutoCAD.
F360 for some reason will always default to cm
F360 can be trick to get your head around how to correctly open and thus interpret files. It took me months before it became second nature to import the file not open the file.
cheers
Phil,
 
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Hi Richie,
Did you tick this option:

The export is scaled to match the output menu only if the above option is set.

Martin.
Thanks Martin, thats sorted it! Clicked that (which I didnt know was there - hence why I had not clicked it) and now an 800mm line in Fusion360 is indeed an 800mm line. Many thanks.

Hi Richie,
I suspect your trying to open the DXF in F360? Don't do it that way.
open F360 and the go to insert tab and then insert DXF.
follow the prompts, select the plane and then select the file you want to open ( for where you have stored it on your hard drive) it will then ask you for units, select mm and it will open the DXF to the right scale for you.
cheers
Phil
Ps I believe Creo works in exactly the same way.
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the advice, unfortunately Insert DXF never works for me, it just crashes Fusion360 after about 5 minutes. The only way I have ever been able to import DXFs is to go through the file browser, upload the DXF as a new document, and after a few minutes its there and openable as a standard F360 file. It's odd, you would think both would use the same system, but something must be different some where. However, the tick box that Martin said has sorted it out, and the track plan is now showing in f360 quite happily!

Cheers
Richie
 
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I have just export a P4 timber base using the default Templot 2D DXF option, then opened Fusion360 and clicked on Open, selected the the .dxf file that Templot created, and as it F360 opens the file it does warn that the file does not contain units, but suggests you can select units from the drop down.
When I checked the drop down, units were set to mm.
I then chose the Inspect, measure option and clicked on a long edge of a timber and it displayed the length as 34.21mm
1707952503788.png



Loading F360 afresh, If I just open F360, then click on settings, units are shown as mm, but if i change them to CM, and tick the "set as default", then open the Templot generated .DXF, then perform the same Inspect, Measure, I get a line length of 34.21cm.

So the trick is before you open the Templot .DXF file ensure that you have the document settings, units in the the empty design space to mm and that the "set to default" option is ticked.
1707953144145.png

Steve
 
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I then chose the Inspect, measure option and clicked on a long edge of a timber and it displayed the length as 34.21mm
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

That's the 34mm timber length (8ft-6in) plus the cutter kerf offset at each end.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

See: :)


cheers,

Martin.

Thanks Martin,
I suppose the theory went wrong there on the premise that I didnt believe I needed help with that screen! Everything was 3D related apart from the option where the yellow ball is which is 2D, which is what I was doing, so automatically clicked export! I also assumed (wrongly - and also in the railway world, never assume!!) the selecting the scale option from the Output Menu would automatically have told the programme thats what I wanted to do.

Without wishing to tell you how to do things, would it be worth a small popup window when ever one of the 'Scaling' options from the Output menu is selected to say "If exporting as DXF, remember to click on the Scaled ticket box on ...blah blah" to make it easier for users? No need to reply, just a thought that might help others.

I have just export a P4 timber base using the default Templot 2D DXF option, then opened Fusion360 and clicked on Open, selected the the .dxf file that Templot created, and as it F360 opens the file it does warn that the file does not contain units, but suggests you can select units from the drop down.

Interestingly, when I import the DXF I dont get that warning message.

Anyway, thanks again for the help. Hopefully anyone else having the same problem will find this thread!

Richie
 
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Hi Guys,
I can't comment on what your doing and how its working for you. All I can say is my F360 follows exactly what the wise words of Autodesk say.
I personally have found opening just about any existing file in F360 is best done though import, as that then gives you the chance to check. As I said something that took me along time to get my head around, but now it pays dividends.

Richie I am glad you have a fix that's great, I have no idea why your getting a crash when using import open option. maybe your CPU is getting overloaded?

Just as an aside I have if you use F360 to open and work on STL then you must use import otherwise its a nightmare to merge the triangles back into a solid shape. Steve have you opened STL for the design space? if so what do you get? Also I note your in iso view
Do you use ISO much for DXF files? seems a bit strange!
cheers
Phil,
 
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Hi Guys,
just to clarify the attached is what I am talking about
As you can see, I have the options of plane, units and whether to put all the layers on one sketch? Or each layers is sketch the latter is better if you want to change or manipulate layers.
clearly you can do whatever works best for you, this just works best for me.
cheers
Phil,
 

Attachments

  • F360 via import.jpg
    F360 via import.jpg
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Without wishing to tell you how to do things, would it be worth a small popup window when ever one of the 'Scaling' options from the Output menu is selected to say "If exporting as DXF, remember to click on the Scaled ticket box on ...blah blah" to make it easier for users? No need to reply, just a thought that might help others.
@BetweenTheTunnels

Hi Richie,

Well I could do that, but in practice almost no-one ever uses the scaling option. I'm not too sure why you are using it? You should be able import a DXF in any units you choose, and if you do want to change the size there are scaling options in almost all CAD programs.

The DXF scaling function in Templot dates back to the beginning of Templot when folks tended to use DXF rather than PDF when printing long track plans on wide-format roll paper at a print shop. The scaling function provides an option similar to printer calibration for such cases. Nowadays PDF files are mostly used for that purpose, and all PDF reader/print programs include a scaling function.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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would it be worth a small popup window when ever one of the 'Scaling' options from the Output menu is selected

Hi Richie,
You have me totally confused with what you are saying here,
Firstly (well certainly for me) the custom menu is set to radio button mm active and scale option switch off by default, so there should be no way the scale output is wrong and not in mm unless its been changed.
secondly when you do tick the scaled box it already tells you exactly what you need to know, the key words are

The DXF output will now be scaled at 100.0 %
For export to a CAD program you should normally leave this "on 100% and do any required scaling in the CAD program"

I don't understand what else you want Martin to write here!

I then reread your original post and it appears you where out by a factor of 10 right from the start.
So the only two real options are,
1, Somehow you changed the scaling in Templot before you exported.
2, The scaling factor you used on your first attempt at loading into F360 was wrong by a factor of 10.
I can't say for sure which it was, although one though does stick out very predominately.

It strike me all you have done to make it work, is basically reset it to its default settings in Templot and confirmed your units are now mm in F360.

What should be highlighted from this post is simply, everything needs to scaled correctly. Given the Templot default is correct, step one is check the cad settings are right.
cheers
Phil.
 

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  • scaling.jpg
    scaling.jpg
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