• The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    Some pages of this topic include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files.

Experimental Plug Track: 3D-printed, CNC-milled, laser-cut

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Martin Wynne

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@Derek

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your thoughts. Certainly not writing out of turn -- that's what Templot Club is here for. It's everyone's turn! :)

At the moment I'm walking a tightrope between letting folks know what I'm doing (so that I can get some feedback), but not letting anyone run away with the idea that it's all ready to be used now, or likely to be any time soon. At present you can build plain track with REA chairs, but that's all. The rest is still just experimental tinkering about, which might or might not ever see the light of day.

My interest in all this is threefold:

1. to discover just what can be done with the latest home machines, which are bringing industrial tech to home workshops. And also what can't be done -- the Cameo cutter was a big disappointment, and there's a reason the small CNC millers are described as for wood-carving, not metal-working.

2. to see if my 73-year-old brain can get into 3D programming enough to kludge some of it into the ancient and creaking Templot code.

3. to find out if enough folks are interested in the result for me to spend time working it up into a usable function and interface for everyone. At present it's clear that only a minority of Templot users have 3D printers, but when you realise that they can now be obtained for much the same cost as an RTR locomotive, or not much more than a 2D printer, it's obvious that 3D printing will eventually be an everyday part of the hobby. You can see that already on some of the forums.

As to how much Templot can be expected to do by itself, and how much users will have to do themselves, it's too early to say. Until I've made enough progress with the code to see where it falls down, and whether I can fix it in my lifetime, I can't make that split. There are some aspects of track design where only a human eye is good enough, as in the timber shoving for example. I can see something similar being needed for the chairing of check rails -- be ready to add "chair heaving" to the Templot lexicon.

Short that is, of a crack team of AI programmers turning up in my shed. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Paul Boyd

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@Paul Boyd

Here's an 0 Gauge layout entirely 3D-printed, mostly FDM with some resin:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/guildex-show-online.318/post-3024

Martin.
Hmm…. Definitely some possibilities there although I suspect it was done that way to see if he could, rather than as a real solution. I was a little bemused by the fact that he appeared to start looking into track and wheel standards after making track and wheels! I didn’t watch it all though, so maybe I missed something.

Just wondering - when will Templot be able to do bent timbers? 😂😂 (I’ll get my coat…)

Cheers,
Paul
 
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Martin Wynne

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Another day, another button.

hide_timber_outline.png


Hiding a timber outline differs from omit timber in that the chairs/sockets remain, but the timber itself does not. Omit timber removes the timber entirely, including any chairs/sockets.

This is for the DXF exports of course, so that some other timber can claim the chairs when shoved under them.

I haven't yet decided if or how this will have any effect on the rest of Templot and the timbering total lengths. It will probably have the same effect as omitting the timber.

This dialog is now getting very crowded and needs to be bigger -- you buy a bigger monitor, I fill the screen with buttons. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

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I mentioned that I wasn't happy with the socket-fitting code and might re-write it. That's now done.

As always when you make improvements, you can't understand why you didn't do it that way in the first place. :)

The sockets have been freed from the template which generates them, and now have a separate existence where they can be captured by any shoved timber which surrounds them.

This means that existing BOX files containing partial templates and shoved timbers in complex formations can now be used unchanged for both 2-D and 3-D timbering exports. There is no need for the clunky joins in timbers which I previously suggested for 3-D files.

That moves the dial significantly back towards FDM printing from CNC milling. I'm glad I have both machines and don't need to choose.

Here you can see I have been doing some timber shoving on a crossover to create some long timbers:

new_sockets2.png


Notice for timbers E2, etc., I have hidden the outline to leave only the chairs. These can then be shoved along the rails over the long timber which has been extended from the other turnout.


new_sockets1.png


A couple of things to notice. I omitted one rail to make a partial template, as a test to make sure it didn't upset the timber as it did before.

You can also get creative -- for that one chair the gang had to move it sideways a bit because the screw holes in the timber had stripped, and needed to be filled and re-drilled. :)

I still have some work to do on the trackpad view to ensure the chairs are always visible over the timber infill.

And the result is (ignoring the still missing special chairs):

new_sockets3.png


Notice the moved chair. Also the missing rail. Those timbers are now happy to have only 3 chairs instead of the usual 4.

I'm quite pleased with this. It needs more testing before I release 232a for trials, but I can now see a clear way forward which was cloudy before. And then back to the special chairs.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

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I'm going to delete some of the earlier posts about making joins in shoved timbers for FDM -- before Google indexes them for 100 years. If you need to reference any of it, do it now.

edit: now deleted

That's the thing about experimental stuff -- even the posts about it are experimental. :)

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

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Another day, another button:

bgnd_chairs_option.png


Having the chairs showing on all background templates makes such a hit on the screen response for a large track plan that you will want to turn them off except when actually timber shoving, or chair heaving, or creating timbering bricks.

You can turn them on and off by delving into the menus, but I thought an easily accessible switch would be helpful.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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I usually come by once a week to catch up on this thread and every time I do I am amazed at your productivity Martin! Thanks so much for putting in such a tremendous effort. I think this is genuinely the future of the hobby for a large subset of people.

I assume one of the "larger" bed resin printers (such as the planned Elegoo Jupiter) would be just as good or better than an FDM printer here?

https://www.elegoo.com/collections/...k-mono-msla-3d-printer?variant=39777858093104
 
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Martin Wynne

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I assume one of the "larger" bed resin printers (such as the planned Elegoo Jupiter) would be just as good or better than an FDM printer here?
@murphaph

Hi Phil,

Thanks for your kind words.

You are adding another option for the timbering bases -- FDM printed, laser-cut, CNC milled, and now resin printed!

My first thoughts re the Jupiter for track building would be:

At that cost you are entering laser-cutter cost territory, and paying for a build height way beyond anything needed for track. But great for a one-piece water tower in 0 gauge. :)

With such high-resolution it might be possible to print the ballast at the same time?

My one doubt would be about the ductile strength of the resin. The intention for Plug Track is that the chairs are a firm interference press fit in the timbers. That might cause resin-printed timbers to fracture. If not immediately, maybe after a few years UV-exposure embrittlement? Like the chairs they would need a good coat of paint to protect them. Or be made a looser fit for gluing instead. A lot would depend on the choice of resin -- there are (expensive) engineering resins which might be needed.

I need to try printing some timbers on my little Elegoo printer and doing some tests. On a small printer the timbers could be bunched-up for printing, and maybe located in a FDM timbering fret (3D template) for accurate gauging and alignment. There is already an option for that:
index.php


So many options, ifs and buts. At some stage someone has got to write all this up. I'm not looking forward to that. :( I still haven't finished the timbering brick topic, but it all applies equally to a resin-printed brick:

index.php


More: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/extracting-a-timbering-brick-from-a-track-plan.295/

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Thanks for your thoughts Martin. I will keep my powder dry on a large resin printer then and see how things develop. As you quite rightly point out, that's laser cutter territory and a small resin printer + laser cutter might well be a better investment than a large resin printer alone. I was kind of thinking of printing bogie stock in 00 at some stage, hence the "wondering out loud" about the newer, larger resin printers....

I was kind of thinking that resin printers might be better at representing most concrete sleepers with their obviously "uneven" profile, falling in to a valley in the middle. I wonder how well FDM printers can do that? Clearly a laser cutter can not help there as the wood will almost certainly always be flat.
 
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Martin Wynne

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I was kind of thinking that resin printers might be better at representing most concrete sleepers with their obviously "uneven" profile, falling in to a valley in the middle. I wonder how well FDM printers can do that? Clearly a laser cutter can not help there as the wood will almost certainly always be flat.
@murphaph

Hi Phil,

You are jumping a long way ahead. Concrete bearers are mostly used for flat-bottom track, and I haven't got anywhere near thinking about FB baseplates yet -- beyond the idea of omitting the jaws from a BH chair. :)

Concrete sleepers are not unknown for bullhead plain track:

mount_pleasant_tunnel.jpg


But I don't know of any bullhead pointwork on concrete bearers.

There would be no inherent difficulty in programming the concrete shape for 3D printing. For FDM the issue might be in getting a smooth top surface if it isn't flat -- although for the above weathered concrete look it might be ideal.

For the pointwork timbers I am already planning some surface detail, such as the switch sole plates, which are seldom modelled and often quite prominent on the toe timber:

index.php


cheers,

Martin.
 
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Yeah I'm like 5 years down the road in my head already lol. The possibilities really are limitless aren't they. Patience is a virtue as they say and I am patiently following this thread with great interest :)
 
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Martin Wynne

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Unless you know different, I think I've got the timbering mostly done, at least for REA bullhead. There is a new timber throw setting in the timbering data in 232a, intended for creating L1-chaired waybeams. I will write more about that later.

So on we go. P chairs (slide chairs) next:

rea_gwr_p_slide_chairs.jpg


REA on the left and GWR on the right.

Slightly confusing because of the two, the GWR looks more like the REA S1 chair with a single outer chair screw and double ribs.

For the special switch and crossing chairs, the REA swaps from 3-screws to 4-screws throughout. The GWR sticks with 2-screws throughout, which is a bit puzzling -- understandable if they were through bolts as on their plain track, but in pointwork the GWR used screws from above like everyone else. The REA fixing looks far more substantial to resist gauge spread -- always a risk in switches resulting from the deflection angle in the turnout road.

There is an alternative REA design, the PJ chair, which has a separate spacer block in the rail web, in effect a cast-iron key, similar to flat-bottom slide chairs. That requires a more upright jaw and a longer bolt. It also has a hexagon nut on the bolt instead of a square nut, for easier spannering between the chair-screw heads.

The PJ would make a more substantial resin print. On the other hand as far as I know they were introduced only in the 1950s (anyone?), so those modelling the grouping era are going to be called rude names for having the wrong style of slide chair. :)

On balance I'm minded to start with the original REA P chair as above. If it proves too fragile, we still have the option of swapping to PJ.

So I'd better make a start on it, instead of putting it off by rambling on about it here.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

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p.s. correction :confused:

Oh no it doesn't. Have a hexagon nut. That's only on flat-bottom, for the wider rail foot.

Here's the REA PJ chair:

rea_pj_slide_chair.jpg


Notice that the spacer block is thinner than a normal key, and there is no fresh air below it.

That's because there is no requirement to drop the rail into the chair before kicking it across under an inner jaw.

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

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Another conundrum.

The prototype switch opening is 4.1/4".

For EM and 00-SF that's increased to 5.1/4" recommended minimum (1.75mm, thickness of a 20p coin).

Unfortunately that means a conflict with the chair screw heads:
p_chair_opening_em.png


p_chair_opening_em1.png


Would you rather:

a. snip the tops off the chair screws to clear (they are very small in 4mm scale), or

b. have Templot make the chair longer than scale to suit the chosen gauge, or

c. have yet another tickbox option for that, or

d. something else.

Bear in mind for 00-SF that making the chairs longer than scale will reduce even further the distance between opposite slide chairs than is already caused by the under-scale gauge.

p.s. in the drawing I have rotated the rail to vertical.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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