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Steve_Cornford
Member
- Location
- Brighton, East Sussex
Sounds more like 1 step back, 2 steps forward to me!
Steve
Steve
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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.
-
The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.
For an updated overview of this project see this post. For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.
The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.
Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne. -
The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.
For an updated overview of this project see this post. For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.
The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.
Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
Experimental Plug Track: 3D-printed, CNC-milled, laser-cut
- Thread starter Martin Wynne
- Start date
Quick reply >
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RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.
The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.
More info and download:
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software
cheers,
Martin.
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I happened to be on the RS website placing an order when I saw your email, so went to the DesignSpark Mechanical page. The first thing I saw was “Tired of traditional CAD tools with parametric constraints?” as if they’re a bad thing! No, those constraints are what makes these tools much easier to use, and much easier to modify the design! Maybe I’m old-fashioned, or maybe I’m being spoilt using Creo Parametric, but I think I’d struggle using a 3D CAD package without parametric constraints!
I have tried Fusion360 but found it clunky and crash-prone. My only problem with Creo is that it’s only available to me (at home and work) whilst I’m with my current employer.
Cheers,
Paul
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Cheers,
Paul
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Having now tried DSM 6 there is a disappointing change. Some features which were previously free have been moved to the paid-for versions only.
Previously DSM 5 was free, with paid-for add-on modules available if required. Unfortunately DSM 5 is no longer available for download. However, if you downloaded it when I posted about it previously -- do not uninstall it if upgrading to DSM 6, despite what the web site says. Both versions can be on your computer at the same time and work fine.
The DSM 5 add-ons have now been discontinued and merged into separate versions of DSM 6.
For us the most significant change is that the STL import is no longer available in the free "Explorer" version. Which is a nuisance if you want to modify an existing design, such as the STL files created by Templot. It's not really relevant if you are creating new designs from scratch.
On the other hand if you go for the paid-for "Creator" version (£10 per month) you not only get the STL import, but also DXF import and lots of other extra features.
(There is also a more expensive "Engineer" version, but DO NOT get this, because there is no practical difference between Creator and Engineer for DesignSpark Mechanical, the differences apply only to DesignSpark PCB for electronic circuit design.)
Because we want to work with files imported from Templot, I have gone ahead and used the Templot funds to subscribe to the Creator version. It's free for the next 2 months, so I can cancel the subscription at the end of March if I'm not happy with it.
I could of course do all the same things in TurboCAD, but I want to have the same functionality here that Templot users are likely to be using, so that I can test the Templot output and answer questions about it.
• Finally, after all that waffle, I can get to the point. If you have the free DSM 6 Explorer version, and want to import STL files from Templot (or elsewhere), I can provide a conversion service to a file format which will import into DSM 6. Just attach your STL files here, and I will convert them to RSDOCX files. Likewise I can run them through my copy of the Formware STL mesh fixer if the online service is timing out.
• Just to add again, you don't need any of this DSM stuff for plug track, Templot does it all for you. If you are not interested in CAD you can ignore all this. But having got a 3D printer, you might want to make other models too.
cheers,
Martin.
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Unfortunately people who won't read the instructions, even if it's in bold red writing and highlighted for them, are a fact of life in this hobby (and many others).
It seems the chap who created that thread is new to turnout construction so I'd chalk this one up to the ignorance often brought on by stepping into a quite technical field and stumbling around to find one's feet. I know I'm still doing the same thing.
We're all very lucky to have you producing a complex tool for free so I can't make any demands, but I would urge you not to be disheartened by the eternal human struggle to get end users to RTFM.
-James
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It’s so disappointing to see this, and it’s clear that the contributors have neither read the warning nor the topic here. Are any even signed up here?
How feasible would it be to “lock” the experimental stuff, only unlockable with a release code in much the same way as the original Templot? To get a release code, a user would have to demonstrate that they understand the nature of this project, and be willing to participate in the experiment.
I also wonder if, in that very visible warning, that you could also emphasise that anyone continuing past the warning is helping you with the experiment. Still the problem of how to make them actually read it though.
It’ll be very disappointing if you were to pull the plug(track). I really do think the only way to preserve sanity is to not have it in the general release, but that in itself would be a faff to manage. If only people would read the warning that needs to be clicked past - they can’t say they haven’t seen it.
Cheers,
Paul
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
- .
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.
The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.
More info and download:
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software
cheers,
Martin.
message ref: 5768
Paul Boyd
Member
- Location
- Loughborough, UK
Hi Martin,
I happened to be on the RS website placing an order when I saw your email, so went to the DesignSpark Mechanical page. The first thing I saw was “Tired of traditional CAD tools with parametric constraints?” as if they’re a bad thing! No, those constraints are what makes these tools much easier to use, and much easier to modify the design! Maybe I’m old-fashioned, or maybe I’m being spoilt using Creo Parametric, but I think I’d struggle using a 3D CAD package without parametric constraints!
I have tried Fusion360 but found it clunky and crash-prone. My only problem with Creo is that it’s only available to me (at home and work) whilst I’m with my current employer.
Cheers,
Paul
message ref: 5769
Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
- .
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
@Paul Boyd
Hi Paul,
I still prefer TurboCAD for proper CAD work, although I don't do much of that nowadays. DSM is 3D-only, and primarily intended for those who want to create parts for 3D printing.
Unlike Fusion360 it is a normal Windows exe, doesn't require an internet connection, saves your files on your own computer, and allows free use for any purpose including commercial. Fusion360 makes you jump through hoops to prove you are not using it for any commercial purpose.
But the main reason for mentioning it here is that it is entirely free and fully functional. Unlike most free CAD software it is not a trial version or full of nag screens or with very restricted functionality. Or at least the last version wasn't. I suspect the new basic version 6 will be the same, because clearly RS regard it as a sales aid for their robotic parts and components. Likewise their electronic components for the PCB version. Hence the free commercial use.
Of course you don't need any of this for plug track, Templot does all the work. But anyone having got a 3D printer is likely to want to create more than just track on it.
cheers,
Martin.
Hi Paul,
I still prefer TurboCAD for proper CAD work, although I don't do much of that nowadays. DSM is 3D-only, and primarily intended for those who want to create parts for 3D printing.
Unlike Fusion360 it is a normal Windows exe, doesn't require an internet connection, saves your files on your own computer, and allows free use for any purpose including commercial. Fusion360 makes you jump through hoops to prove you are not using it for any commercial purpose.
But the main reason for mentioning it here is that it is entirely free and fully functional. Unlike most free CAD software it is not a trial version or full of nag screens or with very restricted functionality. Or at least the last version wasn't. I suspect the new basic version 6 will be the same, because clearly RS regard it as a sales aid for their robotic parts and components. Likewise their electronic components for the PCB version. Hence the free commercial use.
Of course you don't need any of this for plug track, Templot does all the work. But anyone having got a 3D printer is likely to want to create more than just track on it.
cheers,
Martin.
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Paul Boyd
Member
- Location
- Loughborough, UK
Free is good! Allowing you to keep your own files is good! I will give it a go some time. At some point, hopefully not too soon, I’ll have to bite the bullet and use something other than Creo. Incidentally, Cura also requires an internet connection to work, which means that could also be taken away at a moment’s notice.@Paul Boyd
Hi Paul,
I still prefer TurboCAD for proper CAD work, although I don't do much of that nowadays. DSM is 3D-only, and primarily intended for those who want to create parts for 3D printing.
Unlike Fusion360 it is a normal Windows exe, doesn't require an internet connection, saves your files on your own computer, and allows free use for any purpose including commercial. Fusion360 makes you jump through hoops to prove you are not using it for any commercial purpose.
But the main reason for mentioning it here is that it is entirely free and fully functional. Unlike most free CAD software it is not a trial version or full of nag screens or with very restricted functionality. Or at least the last version wasn't. I suspect the new basic version 6 will be the same, because clearly RS regard it as a sales aid for their robotic parts and components. Likewise their electronic components for the PCB version. Hence the free commercial use.
Of course you don't need any of this for plug track, Templot does all the work. But anyone having got a 3D printer is likely to want to create more than just track on it.
cheers,
Martin.
Cheers,
Paul
message ref: 5771
Steve_Cornford
Member
- Location
- Brighton, East Sussex
Printed this cupola on the Mars 2 Pro resin printer as a change from PlugTrack components:-
From a thingiverse STL download, I used chitubox option to hollow it out as I think it was designed for FDM printing really.
Following that it reduced the predicted weight & resin usage, but it still seemed pretty heavy. I deduced that it must contain uncured resin, so having drilled a hole top & bottom an awful lot of resin drained out! Much lighter now!
Now with the scalescenes printed overlays attached. It's for the large scalescenes station.
Just need some kind of finial now.
Steve
edited for typos etc
From a thingiverse STL download, I used chitubox option to hollow it out as I think it was designed for FDM printing really.
Following that it reduced the predicted weight & resin usage, but it still seemed pretty heavy. I deduced that it must contain uncured resin, so having drilled a hole top & bottom an awful lot of resin drained out! Much lighter now!
Now with the scalescenes printed overlays attached. It's for the large scalescenes station.
Just need some kind of finial now.
Steve
edited for typos etc
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
.
And another one:
IF (important IF) ALL the other stock-rail chairs are loose-jaw outers, it's not strictly necessary for the slide chairs to have loose jaws. That's because the stock rail will be added after the chairs, and can be flexed under the slide chair jaws where there is no opposite inner jaw. Which means it becomes optional to do this -- they can be solid chairs if preferred:
So they get their own separate tickbox.
Soon there won't be space for any more tickboxes, and I shall have to redesign the whole thing. I've been putting that off because it will be a lot of work. Hopefully it will last for at least one more update release.
Martin.
And another one:
IF (important IF) ALL the other stock-rail chairs are loose-jaw outers, it's not strictly necessary for the slide chairs to have loose jaws. That's because the stock rail will be added after the chairs, and can be flexed under the slide chair jaws where there is no opposite inner jaw. Which means it becomes optional to do this -- they can be solid chairs if preferred:
So they get their own separate tickbox.
Soon there won't be space for any more tickboxes, and I shall have to redesign the whole thing. I've been putting that off because it will be a lot of work. Hopefully it will last for at least one more update release.
Martin.
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
- .
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
.
Having now tried DSM 6 there is a disappointing change. Some features which were previously free have been moved to the paid-for versions only.
Previously DSM 5 was free, with paid-for add-on modules available if required. Unfortunately DSM 5 is no longer available for download. However, if you downloaded it when I posted about it previously -- do not uninstall it if upgrading to DSM 6, despite what the web site says. Both versions can be on your computer at the same time and work fine.
The DSM 5 add-ons have now been discontinued and merged into separate versions of DSM 6.
For us the most significant change is that the STL import is no longer available in the free "Explorer" version. Which is a nuisance if you want to modify an existing design, such as the STL files created by Templot. It's not really relevant if you are creating new designs from scratch.
On the other hand if you go for the paid-for "Creator" version (£10 per month) you not only get the STL import, but also DXF import and lots of other extra features.
(There is also a more expensive "Engineer" version, but DO NOT get this, because there is no practical difference between Creator and Engineer for DesignSpark Mechanical, the differences apply only to DesignSpark PCB for electronic circuit design.)
Because we want to work with files imported from Templot, I have gone ahead and used the Templot funds to subscribe to the Creator version. It's free for the next 2 months, so I can cancel the subscription at the end of March if I'm not happy with it.
I could of course do all the same things in TurboCAD, but I want to have the same functionality here that Templot users are likely to be using, so that I can test the Templot output and answer questions about it.
• Finally, after all that waffle, I can get to the point. If you have the free DSM 6 Explorer version, and want to import STL files from Templot (or elsewhere), I can provide a conversion service to a file format which will import into DSM 6. Just attach your STL files here, and I will convert them to RSDOCX files. Likewise I can run them through my copy of the Formware STL mesh fixer if the online service is timing out.
• Just to add again, you don't need any of this DSM stuff for plug track, Templot does it all for you. If you are not interested in CAD you can ignore all this. But having got a 3D printer, you might want to make other models too.
cheers,
Martin.
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
.
Just to test that, here is a DSM 6 file, containing a few chairs from Templot.
If you have any version of DSM 6 you should be able to open it?
Martin.
Just to test that, here is a DSM 6 file, containing a few chairs from Templot.
If you have any version of DSM 6 you should be able to open it?
Martin.
message ref: 5781
Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
.
We have a new chair:
This chair does not exist in the REA designs, it is entirely fictional. An ordinary single-rail chair with 4 screws. I have called it an SC chair.
The REA ordinary chairs have 3 screws. All the special switch and crossing chairs have 4 screws, but the ordinary chairs have only 3. I have created this fictional 4-screw chair so that the component parts can be used in creating the special chairs.
It is however possible to make some of these SC chairs if you wish, with or without loose outer jaws:
which would make sense only for plain track templates. Such chairs might be useful to represent some non-REA pre-grouping chairs which had 4 fixings (although not usually all 4 were actual screws).
cheers,
Martin.
We have a new chair:
This chair does not exist in the REA designs, it is entirely fictional. An ordinary single-rail chair with 4 screws. I have called it an SC chair.
The REA ordinary chairs have 3 screws. All the special switch and crossing chairs have 4 screws, but the ordinary chairs have only 3. I have created this fictional 4-screw chair so that the component parts can be used in creating the special chairs.
It is however possible to make some of these SC chairs if you wish, with or without loose outer jaws:
which would make sense only for plain track templates. Such chairs might be useful to represent some non-REA pre-grouping chairs which had 4 fixings (although not usually all 4 were actual screws).
cheers,
Martin.
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Steve_Cornford
Member
- Location
- Brighton, East Sussex
1 step sideways in order to go 2 steps forwards?
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
message ref: 5817
Steve_Cornford
Member
- Location
- Brighton, East Sussex
Trust an American to go 2 steps forward, then 1 step sideways!
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Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
- .
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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.
I'm not happy. Tempted to scrap the whole project. I knew this would happen:
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-268929
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-269017
That image is now in Google and indexed for 100 years. Fortunately not the larger version which is visible only to logged-in members of Western Thunder.
Martin.
I'm not happy. Tempted to scrap the whole project. I knew this would happen:
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-268929
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-269017
That image is now in Google and indexed for 100 years. Fortunately not the larger version which is visible only to logged-in members of Western Thunder.
Martin.
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James Grundy
Member
- Location
- North Yorkshire, England
Hi Martin,
Unfortunately people who won't read the instructions, even if it's in bold red writing and highlighted for them, are a fact of life in this hobby (and many others).
It seems the chap who created that thread is new to turnout construction so I'd chalk this one up to the ignorance often brought on by stepping into a quite technical field and stumbling around to find one's feet. I know I'm still doing the same thing.
We're all very lucky to have you producing a complex tool for free so I can't make any demands, but I would urge you not to be disheartened by the eternal human struggle to get end users to RTFM.
-James
message ref: 5864
With the greatest respect to those in the thread, it looks like the blind leading the blind
I think if you go back to some of my own early writings I made similar mistakes and at times some of the replies on my threads by some others are completely wrong. The good thing is they are soon forgotten
I think if you go back to some of my own early writings I made similar mistakes and at times some of the replies on my threads by some others are completely wrong. The good thing is they are soon forgotten
message ref: 5865
Paul Boyd
Member
- Location
- Loughborough, UK
Hi Martin,
It’s so disappointing to see this, and it’s clear that the contributors have neither read the warning nor the topic here. Are any even signed up here?
How feasible would it be to “lock” the experimental stuff, only unlockable with a release code in much the same way as the original Templot? To get a release code, a user would have to demonstrate that they understand the nature of this project, and be willing to participate in the experiment.
I also wonder if, in that very visible warning, that you could also emphasise that anyone continuing past the warning is helping you with the experiment. Still the problem of how to make them actually read it though.
It’ll be very disappointing if you were to pull the plug(track). I really do think the only way to preserve sanity is to not have it in the general release, but that in itself would be a faff to manage. If only people would read the warning that needs to be clicked past - they can’t say they haven’t seen it.
Cheers,
Paul
message ref: 5867
Martin Wynne
Admin
- Location
- West of the Severn UK
- Info
- .
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.
Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.
Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
@Paul Boyd
Thanks all. Sorry about the rush of blood. I put an egg on to boil and calmed down. I should have had it before posting.
I did think about releasing a separate development version of Templot for the plug track experiments, restricted to users who were a bit more experienced and understood what the word "experimental" means. But it makes a lot more work to have two versions on the go, and explaining it over and over again to folks who haven't read the relevant words on their computer screen.
For the next program update I will make the message appear during start-up -- which will be extremely annoying for everyone else, but it is only one extra click.
cheers,
Martin.
Thanks all. Sorry about the rush of blood. I put an egg on to boil and calmed down. I should have had it before posting.
I did think about releasing a separate development version of Templot for the plug track experiments, restricted to users who were a bit more experienced and understood what the word "experimental" means. But it makes a lot more work to have two versions on the go, and explaining it over and over again to folks who haven't read the relevant words on their computer screen.
For the next program update I will make the message appear during start-up -- which will be extremely annoying for everyone else, but it is only one extra click.
cheers,
Martin.
message ref: 5868
Hello Martin,
Whatever you do there will always be someone who spoils your party. Unfortunately that is human nature.
I am sure the overwhelming majority of us whom see use and follow your unparalleled efforts in this area of modelling appreciate it.
Thank you.
Best wishes.
Trevor.
Whatever you do there will always be someone who spoils your party. Unfortunately that is human nature.
I am sure the overwhelming majority of us whom see use and follow your unparalleled efforts in this area of modelling appreciate it.
Thank you.
Best wishes.
Trevor.
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Junctionmad
Member
- Location
- Ireland
Leaving aside any discussion about the physics of 3D printing etc. what is the current state of plug track development in the latest templot
Can I “ assume “ for simple crossings and Dismobds etc thug tbd Timbering and chair outputs are suitable assuming you know what you’re doing with 3D and or laser cutting etc
Where are the current limits ? Are certain track configs unsuitable. Will templot generate slide chairs etc ?
Can I “ assume “ for simple crossings and Dismobds etc thug tbd Timbering and chair outputs are suitable assuming you know what you’re doing with 3D and or laser cutting etc
Where are the current limits ? Are certain track configs unsuitable. Will templot generate slide chairs etc ?
message ref: 5878
