Experimental Plug Track: 3D-printed, CNC-milled, laser-cut

[Phil G]

Hi Michael,
the reason your not seeing an STL file of the control template is, you can't how Templot works is the control template is for working on that particular aspect, be it straight track or a turnout. in order to create a STL or DXF you have to first save it to the box file. from there you can export. you don't need a full track plan to do this, you simply save one turnout for example, and then export that to the STL.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

Sorry background not box file,
Cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

The challenge I have is that when I try and export the control template (turnout) only the create SDL goes grey but when I print the whole trackplan it works - hence sending the track plan to see what was going on. Any clues what I am doing wrong?

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

Click on the template, then:

P.S. this is basic Templot stuff. This topic is already 50 pages long and spiralling out of control, and is going to fall over completely if it has to include explanations of the basic workings of Templot. All this stuff is explained elsewhere, or we can start a new topic in "Baffled beginners" if you can't find it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Michael,
Can I make a suggestion?
S Scale chairs and timber base for testing
Make a fresh start in Templot then:-
Gauge > 22.45 S
Then [plain track], then [curve] , click on the blue radius in mm text to get a pop-up window:-

replace the 3143.25 with a / character and keep pressing <cr> until you get the trackpad back with a section of straight track, then click the [legth] button to shorten the template until the result fits within your build plate
Real > chairing > experimental chairing, and you should get this:-

click the [3D] to get the "experimental 3D" pop-up if it is not already displayed.

ensure all three tickboxes ticked
click on the colour box so that we can choose a different colour for the template that we are about to store.

In this example I am going to click the next colour along the bottom next to the existing colour, and then click [ok]

This allows us to to select a different colour for each timbering template brick we save.
Perform your favourite method of "store and background", for example just click on the buttonat the top with the two adjacent red down arrows.
This screen pops up:-

click "shwo storage box" to get this:-

note the colour, then click [show box list] button to get this:-

This will list all the templates that you have stored so far, and note that each template will display its chosen colour on the right hand side just before the identifier (PL001 in this case)
Close this window
Now click on the [DFX/ STL file export] button that is on the bottom of the 3D pop-up.
This displays the export dialogue screen:-

In the group box in the top left hand corner I have ticked the "timbering brick only" radio button.
Note the colour in the box adjacent to "brick colour".
This means that all background templates (and shapes for that matter) that have been stored with this colour will be exported.
In the group box with the yellow background tick the [timbers only] button.
This will set all the pararmeters on tis screen so that just the timbering brick will be output, ie no chairs, but there will be sockets for the chairs.
In the "puce" group box in bottom left hand select the radio button for the type of print you will be performing

Rail
When you come to print "chairs only", you will need to have selected the correct rail profile from the pre-sets available, or if not available click on the [set custom rail] button in the top right hand box.
Now key in a description that is relevant, here is one I have made up:-

when you click [ok] you will get the "3D custom rail section dialogue" box, which will have values that default to BS-95R section scled to your chosen scale (i think, Martin might correct me here).

ANyway I would try the defaults first, unless you have already got your micrometer out.
I could not find values on the S society webiste for the rail they supply.

I would recomend that you try printing a section of plain straight timbering brick, and a set of corresponding S1 chairs to check the fit of your rail.

By print i mean :-
Export the STL from Templot, fix using the link in the bottom right corner, then slice with your slicer & print. No CAD involved (other than you might want to view the files.
If you need to adjust the rail section parameters in templot, then feed the info back to the forum so that Martin ahs the option of adding a pre-defined S scale rail to Templot, as this would then be very useful for those users of Templot who only ahve Templot and dont have access to CAD software like yourself.

I hope this helps
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

ps example of a box file containing 3 timbering bricks:-

No clips added yet, and they are small bricks for testing on my small printer!

 

[Michael Woods]

Thanks Steve. This is massively helpful. Too late to print this evening will try for next weekend. Together with the chairs. Thank you to you and Martin for your patience.

 

[Martin Wynne]

replace the 3143.25 with a / character and keep pressing <cr> until you get the trackpad back with a section of straight track,

@Steve_Cornford @Paul Boyd

Hi Steve,

Try:

That straightens the existing control template.

Or if it's not horizontal on the screen, you can start with a new one:

Many thanks for posting the detailed brick instructions.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Phil G

Thanks Phil. Looking forward to your report, but I doubt your situation is typical of most Templot users?

The specific problem for laser cutting and the reason for writing before is the crossing chairs you asked about. My current designs require some 3D effects into the FDM/CNC/resin timbering base, and I'm not sure it will work on laser-cut plywood.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,
Interesting comments,
So you're going to have the timbers under the a B and possibly C chairs do more work then just have a pocket in them to take the chair plug. that's interesting. I will wait with bated breath
just a question do you think these (special timbers) could also be made on a resin printer, assuming the build plate was large enough?
cheers
Phil

 

[Martin Wynne]

Thanks Steve. This is massively helpful. Too late to print this evening will try for next weekend. Together with the chairs. Thank you to you and Martin for your patience.

View attachment 5562

@Michael Woods @Paul Boyd

Hi Michael,

You have that set for a standard printer profile (0.2mm NORMAL).

It's worth a try, but based on my experience with 4 different FDM printers, it is unlikely to produce very satisfactory results. The socket dimensions will be poorly defined, inconsistent, and the chairs won't fit them. Especially those skewed at an angle to the timbers. There is likely to be some stringing across the sockets. On most machines the standard profiles are designed to optimise print time over print quality.

Attached below is the settings profile which I use for the timbering bricks on my gantry printer (Neptune 2S) which is similar in design to your AnyCubic Mega Zero.

It's for the Cura slicer, I don't know how the settings compare with the Prusa slicer. Cura is free if you want to try it -- the settings file below is for version Cura 5.1

Here are some of the settings which are important. It looks complicated but hopefully all that most Templot users will have to do is download the Cura software (free) and load the appropriate profile setting from the Templot web site.

After an initial print, you would need to measure it, and probably adjust some of these settings and the shrinkage settings in the DXF export to get accurate results on your own printer. In due course there will be a calibration print file available to make this easy (like the 2D printer calibration for the paper templates).

I'm really fearful that by posting all this stuff now it is going to frighten off some potential users of plug track. I intend to make it really easy for them -- get this, click that, press this button. BUT I CAN'T DO IT YET, it is far too soon. There is so much still to find out and do first.

I will write again later to explain some of these settings. Thank goodness it is too late for you to start printing tonight! I have got a chance to draw breath and take my time explaining things properly.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

So you're going to

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Now you are making me bad-tempered!

I never said I was "going to" do anything. I said I'm experimenting with different ideas -- and I haven't yet concluded anything from them. I don't know how many times I have to keep saying that I'm conducting an experiment. When you do that you don't know the results until the experiment is finished. Absolutely nothing about Templot plug track is yet finally decided.

It's great to have folks helping me with this experiment and providing feedback, but it's turning into a constant battle of wits to stop them running ahead of me. That's entirely up to them of course, but they could be wasting an awful lot of time, money and materials. I don't want to be responsible for that.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
Sorry certainly not my intension to put you in a bad mood.
You know, that I know its all experimental, that's a given. To the point I don't even mention it, maybe I should for the sake of other readers.

If I gave you the impression I was forcing you in a direction, that was not my intension at all.
I was just curious, but I take on board your point, you can't develop the product if you spend all your time replaying to posts.

As to the comment about ill spent money, your sounding like your talking directly to my wife.
As I said to her, its my money and my choice, Some people rush out and buy new cars each year. I have a bit of a habit of collecting tools.
After all, even if plug track falls over completely heaven forbid, I will find other uses for the tools. So no need to feel your in anyway responsible for me purchasing things.

With that I will leave you alone to carry on with your experiments in peace.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods @Paul Boyd

Hi Michael,

1. Layer Height

This setting is the most significant in controlling the print time. I'm using 0.12mm which is far less than it needs to be for most of the timbering brick height, but not for the top layer. There is a small rebate around the top of the sockets to ensure the chairs can sit flush to the timber surface. If the top layer is more than 0.12mm Cura will not be able to print this rebate and will simply ignore it. Increasing the depth of the rebate would prevent the chair plugs from fitting tight.

Ideally we would use say 0.24mm for most of the timber depth, switching to 0.12mm for the last few layers only. Which would shorten print times significantly. It seems Cura does not have an option to change layer height for different sections of the model. As far as I know the only slicer program which does so is the paid-for Simplify3D slicer which is expensive and received poor reviews for the latest version. Given that most of the other FDM slicers are free, we probably don't want to bother with that. Cura has an experimental "Adaptive layers" function which ought to be able to do what we want, but in lengthy dabbling with it I couldn't get it to do anything other than increase the normal layer height for the whole model. There is a lot of experimenting with different slicers and settings which could be done here, but it's just side-tracking me from getting on with the chairs. It will have to wait for another day.

Instead, I have written a Gcode editor utility which can create the required effect by splitting and combining two separate Gcode files from Cura. It sort of works and reduces print time significantly, but it's a faff to use, so I'm not going to release it until I have got it to the stage where it can be used with just a few clicks. At present it would need yet another page of explanation of ifs and buts, and I'm reaching burn-out in writing endless explanations -- here I am in the 3rd paragraph about just one Cura setting.

More Cura stuff to follow.

In the end Templot users won't need to know any of this -- just download the recommended plug track printer profile and use it.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

you can't develop the product if you spend all your time replaying to posts.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

I know you didn't mean anything by that, but I just want to be clear that plug track is not a "product". I'm not supplying or selling anything at all with Templot. It is just my hobby interest, which others can join in if they wish.

I've already had to fend off emails from folks trying to order plug track from me, asking for price lists, even expecting to buy a 3D printer from me. I've tried and tried to make clear what I'm doing with Templot, but some folks just don't seem able to understand.

I know there are still a few bits of wording on the web site left over from the time (12 years ago now) when I was selling the Templot program commercially. But I can't stop now to re-write the web site, otherwise I never will make progress with the plug track, it seems to be getting slower and slower.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Martin,
You are quite right a very poor choice of a words on my part, what I should have wrote was project.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Michael,
Here are some tips for chair rafts
Starting with S gauge, plain straight track , i set length to 110mm, then added a yellow(easier to see) background shape to contain the MS rail wit chairs plus space above the chairs for another row.
then real > rails > omit rails etc

unticked TS running rail, that just gives us the MS running rail & chairs, stire & background,. this stores a template to the storage box with the MS running rail chairs.
Then real > rails > omit rails again.
untick MS running rail & tick TS running rail to give us the opposite of the first template

Now click [shift&join] button to move the TS running rail set of chairs down so that they also fit on the yellow rectangle (which will become the raft)

store & background
Then perform the DXF/STL export, selecting all background templates, chairs only, setting your custom rail.
This will give you a long narrow raft with S1 fixed jaw chairs (unless you play with the various chair & jaw tickboxes)


I recomend you go for a long narrow raft as it is easier to a) release raft from build plate (at leats on the my Mars), b) with chairs close to edge of raft allows you to get Xuron style cutters in to snip off the chairs.

You can get more chairs in by "grouping" the two templates, making a copy and shifting the copy of the group so that the chairs are adjacent to the original group but are inbetween if you see what I mean.

good luck with your printing

Steve
ps measure the length of your sleepers, and also the legth of the timber base from the outside surface of the two end timbers to check the accuracy of the finished timber base.
You can use shove timbers function to calculate what the length of the base should be (see a previous post by Martin & myself a few pages ago fro method)

 

[Michael Woods]

@Michael Woods @Paul Boyd

Hi Michael,

You have that set for a standard printer profile (0.2mm NORMAL).

It's worth a try, but based on my experience with 4 different FDM printers, it is unlikely to produce very satisfactory results. The socket dimensions will be poorly defined, inconsistent, and the chairs won't fit them. Especially those skewed at an angle to the timbers. There is likely to be some stringing across the sockets. On most machines the standard profiles are designed to optimise print time over print quality.

Attached below is the settings profile which I use for the timbering bricks on my gantry printer (Neptune 2S) which is similar in design to your AnyCubic Mega Zero.

It's for the Cura slicer, I don't know how the settings compare with the Prusa slicer. Cura is free if you want to try it -- the settings file below is for version Cura 5.1

Here are some of the settings which are important. It looks complicated but hopefully all that most Templot users will have to do is download the Cura software (free) and load the appropriate profile setting from the Templot web site.

After an initial print, you would need to measure it, and probably adjust some of these settings and the shrinkage settings in the DXF export to get accurate results on your own printer. In due course there will be a calibration print file available to make this easy (like the 2D printer calibration for the paper templates).

I'm really fearful that by posting all this stuff now it is going to frighten off some potential users of plug track. I intend to make it really easy for them -- get this, click that, press this button. BUT I CAN'T DO IT YET, it is far too soon. There is so much still to find out and do first.

I will write again later to explain some of these settings. Thank goodness it is too late for you to start printing tonight! I have got a chance to draw breath and take my time explaining things properly.

View attachment 5567


cheers,

Martin.

Thanks Martin,


I played with the settings. Will have another go later in the week but feels like it is directionally correct. Will spin up the chairs on my resin printer next weekend.

 

[Michael Woods]

Hi Michael,
Here are some tips for chair rafts
Starting with S gauge, plain straight track , i set length to 110mm, then added a yellow(easier to see) background shape to contain the MS rail wit chairs plus space above the chairs for another row.
then real > rails > omit rails etc
View attachment 5574
unticked TS running rail, that just gives us the MS running rail & chairs, stire & background,. this stores a template to the storage box with the MS running rail chairs.
Then real > rails > omit rails again.
untick MS running rail & tick TS running rail to give us the opposite of the first template
View attachment 5575
Now click [shift&join] button to move the TS running rail set of chairs down so that they also fit on the yellow rectangle (which will become the raft)
View attachment 5576
store & background
Then perform the DXF/STL export, selecting all background templates, chairs only, setting your custom rail.
This will give you a long narrow raft with S1 fixed jaw chairs (unless you play with the various chair & jaw tickboxes)


I recomend you go for a long narrow raft as it is easier to a) release raft from build plate (at leats on the my Mars), b) with chairs close to edge of raft allows you to get Xuron style cutters in to snip off the chairs.

You can get more chairs in by "grouping" the two templates, making a copy and shifting the copy of the group so that the chairs are adjacent to the original group but are inbetween if you see what I mean.

good luck with your printing

Steve
ps measure the length of your sleepers, and also the legth of the timber base from the outside surface of the two end timbers to check the accuracy of the finished timber base.
You can use shove timbers function to calculate what the length of the base should be (see a previous post by Martin & myself a few pages ago fro method)

Thanks Steve - will have a work through on this.

 

[Michael Woods]

Bit of work to do on printer settings to get the chairs to be a nice snug fit......also I need to try and set the custom settings for the S Scale society prefered code 87 rail. I chose the scale profile and it is too tight.....but these are things I can play with.....great system!

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

I can't be sure from your photo, but your chairs seem to have the rail seat missing (the red component here):

The seat supports the underside of the rail. Without it, the rail will be hanging in fresh air on the jaws and the key, and you won't be able to firm the chairs into the sockets. The settings are on the DXF dialog. However, it is all change in update 238a which I hope to have on the server this week, maybe tomorrow.

So it will just be confusing if I explain any more now.

I should have explained that model rail section never matches the prototype exactly, the web thickness is almost always over-scale. You could start by increasing that.

cheers,

Martin.