Steve_Cornford
Member
- Location
- Brighton, East Sussex
Sounds more like 1 step back, 2 steps forward to me!
Steve
Steve
message ref: 5765
TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here. To watch an introductory video click here. See the User Guide at Bexhill West.
@Steve_Cornford
Hi Steve,
Two months on from that and my rusty brain finally remembered that I have another excellent 3D CAD program installed here -- and it's free.
Snappily named DesignSparkMechanical from RS Components:
View attachment 4796
Download: https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-download-and-installation
To download you need a (free) account with RS but you probably already have one for ordering screws, connecting wire and suchlike. Easy to register if not.
It is aimed at getting folks started in 3D designing and 3D printing, for engineering-type applications. It won't open DXFs from Templot, but it does open STLs from Templot, both original (usually with some warnings) and fixed, after the mesh repair service. It can integrate with the Cura slicer for FDM printing. It works only in 3D, there is no option to print conventional 2D engineering drawings in the free version*.
Unlike Fusion360 it doesn't require an internet connection while running or make you jump through hoops to prove you are not using it commercially. Even if you don't intend to do any designing, it makes a nice STL viewer. There is a detailed beginners guide and tutorial in the right-hand column on the screen.
Having remembered it, I can't think why I haven't been making more use of it, instead of the more traditional TurboCAD:
If anyone is thinking of getting a 3D printer on the strength of plug track, this is an excellent free program to make the most of the printer and get into 3D CAD design.
* the paid-for 2D version appears to have been temporarily withdrawn because of its reliance on Internet Explorer.
cheers,
Martin.
Hi Martin,RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.
The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.
More info and download:
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software
cheers,
Martin.
Free is good! Allowing you to keep your own files is good! I will give it a go some time. At some point, hopefully not too soon, I’ll have to bite the bullet and use something other than Creo. Incidentally, Cura also requires an internet connection to work, which means that could also be taken away at a moment’s notice.@Paul Boyd
Hi Paul,
I still prefer TurboCAD for proper CAD work, although I don't do much of that nowadays. DSM is 3D-only, and primarily intended for those who want to create parts for 3D printing.
Unlike Fusion360 it is a normal Windows exe, doesn't require an internet connection, saves your files on your own computer, and allows free use for any purpose including commercial. Fusion360 makes you jump through hoops to prove you are not using it for any commercial purpose.
But the main reason for mentioning it here is that it is entirely free and fully functional. Unlike most free CAD software it is not a trial version or full of nag screens or with very restricted functionality. Or at least the last version wasn't. I suspect the new basic version 6 will be the same, because clearly RS regard it as a sales aid for their robotic parts and components. Likewise their electronic components for the PCB version. Hence the free commercial use.
Of course you don't need any of this for plug track, Templot does all the work. But anyone having got a 3D printer is likely to want to create more than just track on it.
cheers,
Martin.
.RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.
The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.
More info and download:
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software
cheers,
Martin.
Hi Martin,.
I'm not happy. Tempted to scrap the whole project. I knew this would happen:
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-268929
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-269017
That image is now in Google and indexed for 100 years. Fortunately not the larger version which is visible only to logged-in members of Western Thunder.
Martin.
Hi Martin,.
I'm not happy. Tempted to scrap the whole project. I knew this would happen:
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-268929
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/s7-track-construction-question.11381/post-269017
That image is now in Google and indexed for 100 years. Fortunately not the larger version which is visible only to logged-in members of Western Thunder.
Martin.
im in the middle of cancer treatment so if I can I will join@Junctionmad
Hi David,
At this stage you shouldn't "assume" anything at all. "Experimental" means nothing is finalised and anything might change at any time. The whole object of conducting an experiment is to find out what works, what doesn't, and what works best. Until the experiment reaches some sort of conclusion the plug track is not really ready to be used in anger on an actual layout. You can do that if you wish of course, but you shouldn't be surprised if parts made with one Templot update are not compatible, or even doable, in a subsequent update. I'm releasing it in this ever-changing experimental form so that you can tinker with it and report your results, which is valuable feedback for which I'm extremely grateful. It's been great to see what others have done with it -- it's encouraged me to keep going.
Some things can reasonably be assumed. For example anything which works in one scale, gauge, size or radius should work in any other scale, gauge, size or radius -- within the limits of your printer or miller, of course. Except the rail filing jigs and the tweezer tips which are currently only for 4mm/ft scale and even more experimental than the rest.
With the current Templot update 236d you can get as far as this, and no further:
View attachment 5030
All chairing is currently to REA bullhead designs. There is nothing yet for GWR or pre-grouping designs or anything for flat-bottom. All rail is vertical -- Templot plug track does not and will not support canted rail. The chairing can be set to fit any model bullhead rail section.
Plain track at A can have all S1 chairs, or all L1 bridge chairs (for waybeams), or if you set the sleeper width to 12" all S1J joint chairs, as the joint sleeper at B.
Currently done chairs are:
S1 ordinary chairs
S1J joint chairs
P slide chairs, switch opening adjustable for different track standards
1P, 2P switch heel slide chairs for REA switches A..D only
3P..11P switch heel block chairs for all REA switches A..F
L1 bridge chairs
All chairs can be made with separate loose outer jaws if wanted, or as solid jaws. EXCEPT the switch heel chairs at C. In 236d those are possible only with solid jaws and the chairs are in 2 separate parts, with separate sockets, one on each rail:
That will CHANGE in the next update -- the switch heel chairs will be a single chair and socket, with the option of loose jaws. This means switch heel chairs and timbering from the next program update will be incompatible with any heel chairs or timbering made from the current or previous program updates. If you are using them you need to make all you need, or at least export the files for them, before updating.
I'm currently working on the chairs for check rails, which I'm hoping will be possible in the next program update, and hopefully some improved tweezer tips for any scale. After that I shall be working on the chairs for V-crossings, but I can't say when they will be ready, hopefully before this summer. Chairs for K-crossings, slips, etc., are still in the sunny uplands far away.
Likewise the 1P and 2P heel chairs for switches E and F. You can make such switches now, but those two chairs will be unprototypical.
Currently done track furniture is:
soleplate:
To discuss all this in greater detail, why not join in one of the Zoom meetings? Next one is this Wednesday at 8pm.
For the full chapter and verse on plug track, see this long topic:
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/229/
cheers,
Martin.
I quite like that idea, not that I have a resin printer (yet?)..
Having established that the loose jaws idea does actually work, and is quite pleasing to do, several other ideas come to mind after a boiled egg.
For example, instead of resin printing individual chairs, we might print a full set of chairs for each timber on a thin timber surface layer:
View attachment 5092
pro:
Easier to handle and faster assembly.
Timber tops can be detailed with square corners, splits, cracks and sawmill marks.
FDM-printed timbering bases don't need a smooth top surface or any sanding, for much faster printing.
Less risk of getting the chairs muddled up.
Can be bunched together on the small 3D build plate, unlike resin printing a full timber base.
con:
Costs a bit more for the resin.
Less interchangeability between templates.
Difficult to remove an individual chair if repairs needed at a later time.
Some thought needed for the printing supports.
Will need close matching of shrinkage settings between resin and FDM printing. Quite a bit of trial and error likely to be needed there.
pro/con:
For bash-fit the surface layer needs to be thin enough to flex as each chair is pressed home, although with multiple plugs in play the plug fit can be a bit looser. But a glued construction might be preferable -- there is less risk of excess adhesive being visible or difficult to remove than with individual chairs. We still need a good depth of plug and timbering base for the loose jaws to work.
Could be done with solid jaws for those who prefer to slide the rails into place. In that case the plug and timbering depths could be much thinner for glued construction.
Just another idea in the mix. It can actually be done now in 236d by changing the settings accordingly, it doesn't need any new functions, although I can see that some changes would be a help in providing the printing supports.
I ought to have tried actually printing this idea before posting, but I'm a bit busy with other stuff at present.
cheers,
Martin.
@Paul BoydI quite like that idea, not that I have a resin printer (yet?).
@Nick Allportso I'm wondering if I even need to get an FDM printer? The Saturn 2 has a 219mm x 123mm x 250mm build volume, so I could print 20cm lengths of trackbase fairly comfortably.
@Paul BoydYour suggestion of printing full depth timbers, with chairs ready for loose jaws, slotting into a FDM would seem to be a good compromise, I think. I'm pretty sure that a few more tick boxes will appear on the export dialogue box!
@Terry DownesI would really like to use the comprehensive 3D export features you have developed but, can not seem to utilise the 3d dxf's exported from Templot. I wonder whether anyone else has been experiencing this?
Hi Martin@Paul Boyd
Hi Paul,
Yes.
An issue with full-depth timbers is how to support them. I don't think they will work printed directly on the build plate. We could deal with the possible "elephant's foot" by putting a bottom recess round them (as for the connector clips). But that still leaves the problem of flushing through the pin slots if they go in the washer while still on the build plate. Also the timber thickness would be affected by the levelling of the build plate.
My thinking is to replace the flat raft with a "bed of nails" raft on which the bunched timbers could be placed at random. But I'm not clear how easily they could be removed from it after printing. The "nails" might need to be sawn through or cut with a slitting disc. That raises health issues with the resin dust.
I'm wondering if the timbers could be cut from the "nails" all in one go after washing while they are still soft and uncured on the build plate, with a "cheese wire" style of cutter. But not sure the resin would be soft enough for that -- lots of experimenting with the diameter and spacing of the "nails" needed. The loose timbers could then be cured in a wire basket or some such on the turntable.
Next into the 3D printing den after the glass marbles is:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apollo-Rb-Cheese-Board-Wire/dp/B002HDZ5OO/
A holder for the rafts or build plate might be needed -- amazingly useful things, FDM printers.
Martin.
@Paul BoydAm I right in thinking that the "nails" just need to be the absolute minimum to hold the weight of the raft and keep it flat?
Hi Martin@Paul Boyd
Hi Paul,
Resin printing is done upside down. The so-called "supports" don't actually support anything. What they do is to pull the part up off the clear FEP film in the bottom of the tank (to which it tends to stick). They are actually in tension, and should properly be called "hangers", but because all design and slicing work is done the normal way up, they are called "supports" to match FDM design work done in the same software. It's no wonder this 3D stuff can do yer ed in.
Essentially, you can't have a large horizontal overhang in the design, which is why so many 3D resin prints are done tipped up at an angle, so that no faces are horizontal. Each layer is only 2 thou thick, so when the printer reaches a large horizontal overhang, you suddenly have a large 2 thou thick first wafer of cured resin, to be pulled off the FEP only by means of the edge where it is attached to the part already printed. The hangers/supports are added across it to assist in pulling it up off the FEP. As it gets thicker with subsequent layers they are less needed, but still help to prevent the soft part from distorting.
A failed overhang doesn't only wreck the printed part as it would in FDM. It also leaves a bit of broken-off resin stuck to the FEP film in the bottom of the tank. Which will have received more UV from subsequent layers and become very firmly stuck. It has to be removed before the next print job can be done, otherwise that job will be wrecked too, and it might even cause the build plate to damage the FEP or even the UV screen on its first layer next time. With every print it's important to check that no parts are missing from it, because those parts are still in the tank and likely stuck to the FEP.
All will become clearifwhen you get your resin printer.
I think my "bed of nails" idea can have nails about 0.4mm tip diameter at about 1.0mm centres. That leaves a space 0.6mm between them which based on the results with the chair base edges should print ok. While leaving enough clear space around the nails for flushing IPA through in the washer if a timber happens to get placed on the "bed of nails" with a pin slot directly over a nail (slots are 1.2mm x 0.6mm in 4mm/ft scale). We shall see.
Cheese slicer arrived a couple of hours ago -- looks nicely made for the cost. I'm hopeful it will work, but if not the kitchen will be getting an Easter present.
Looking forward to seeing your 4n27 track. I haven't yet added it to the Templot pre-sets because I made a rule not to include n.g. stuff in the list (to preserve my sanity). But maybe I should make an exception?
cheers,
Martin.
@Paul BoydThe reviews are not good...