Templot Club forums powered for Martin Wynne by XenForo :

TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Experimental Plug Track: 3D-printed, CNC-milled, laser-cut

Quick reply >
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

Your STL file is empty. There is nothing in it.

I have just tried creating several STL files and it all seems to be working ok.

Please can you post here your BOX file and a screenshot of the DXF/STL dialog showing the settings you are using. Thanks.

Anyone else seeing empty STL files?

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6516
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

I have managed to create an empty STL identical yours by selecting the timbering brick only option on the DXF dialog without having previously marked any templates as brick templates. Does that ring any bells?

It's a bug, in the sense that I should have caught it with an error message. I will fix it in the next update.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6518
If you find you need to have 3 dimensional capacity at the vee, I am thinking/hoping that's where the router option comes into play.
just an other idea to throw into the mix.
@Phil G

I'm going to start with individual X, A and B chairs, and add the spacer blocks to them. These should fit in the standard sockets, so won't need anything extra cut into the timbers. However, it's going to be difficult to bash fit them without damage, they may need a spot of superglue in a looser-fitting socket. The slicer might want to add extra supports to the spacer blocks. All very experimental.

So far the chairs have been stylised geometrical designs, but mostly I have managed to follow the REA dimensions quite closely.

For most of the crossing chairs I am going to have to play fast and loose with the REA designs to some extent. Not least of course because our flangeway gaps are significantly over-scale (even in P4). But also for other reasons. At present all the existing chairs are rectangular with radiused corners. The corner radius can be easily changed, but having more than 4 sides on a chair would involve a very significant re-write of much of the existing code. That's doable in the long term, but for now I am going to fudge my way round it. Some of the crossing chairs are 8" wide rectangles, so that's no problem. But others are octagonal, with a middle section 10.5" wide or more. In the short term I am going to represent those as 9" wide rectangular chairs.

Also some of the vee chairs are inside-keyed. That might work in P4, S7, but in 00/EM the wheel flanges are likely to clonk the top of the chair jaw. For those chairs therefore plug track will be missing the keys -- they could be added later cosmetically in the larger scales. It also means having a loose gauging jaw, rather than a loose outer jaw. That's sub-optimal, but there is no way to fit 2 loose jaws between the vee rails.

The majority of folks will likely not even notice these discrepancies. I mention all this now to pre-empt the messages from those who do notice them, telling me I have got it all wrong. :)

And because I may never remember to mention it again.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6523
Sorry - still struggling with the empty file error (user). Yesterday I successfully printed some chairs. This morning I want back to change the settings of the custom chairs and now I have the empty file error. Attached is the box file and screen shots. Any thoughts?
 

Attachments

  • sunday 2.box
    57.7 KB · Views: 61
  • Screenshot 2023-04-30 093038.png
    Screenshot 2023-04-30 093038.png
    28.7 KB · Views: 65
  • Screenshot (210).png
    Screenshot (210).png
    424.2 KB · Views: 61
_______________
message ref: 6525
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

Do not click the timbering brick option unless you have set up the brick templates (which you most likely haven't):

michael_dxf.png


If you are printing chairs for a single test template, just leave it on the all background templates default setting for now.

I can't write a full explanation now, sorry. See the topic on extracting timbering bricks for more. You don't need that just to print some test pieces.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6526
Try having all 3 tick boxes in the 3D pop-up window ticked when you store the control template, so that when you list the box contents, the templates that you are trying h to export are marked with the correct brick colour
 
_______________
message ref: 6527
Hi Martin - I have been trying to use the custom rail setting and regardless of the settings the STL does not seem to change.....once again this is probably something I am doing wrong. Any thoughts on what I could be doing wrong?
 
_______________
message ref: 6533
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

It seems to be working ok here.

1. make sure you have set your S scale before you do anything else. Never attempt to do anything in Templot until you have set your model scale.

2. Do not use the settings at real > rails. They are for 2-D paper templates.

3. click these buttons to set your 3-D rail dimensions:

silly_rail_custom.png


Make sure the custom radio button is selected before exporting.

It seems to be working ok in both DXF and STL -- I entered some silly dimensions to check:

silly_rail.png


silly_rail_stl.png


What dimensions are you using?

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6535
.
Following the discussion in the Zoom meeting I have now added the missing reset button.

Also some coloured markers to show which button was clicked last:

reset_both.png


p.s. the markers stay on, even if you subsequently change some of the settings manually.

Will be in the next update.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6536
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

It seems to be working ok here.

1. make sure you have set your S scale before you do anything else. Never attempt to do anything in Templot until you have set your model scale.

2. Do not use the settings at real > rails. They are for 2-D paper templates.

3. click these buttons to set your 3-D rail dimensions:

View attachment 5627

Make sure the custom radio button is selected before exporting.

It seems to be working ok in both DXF and STL -- I entered some silly dimensions to check:

View attachment 5629

View attachment 5628

What dimensions are you using?

cheers,

Martin.
Had real rails sellected.....good news is that the chairs fit the sleepers nicely now.....just spin up another chair print
 
_______________
message ref: 6537
This is the profile that I am trying to use....I have taken the instruction from previous post questions and answsers. But when I try this config and create an STL I cannot repair either in formware or other 3D print repair tools....have I missunderstood and requesting something that is geometrically impossible?

S Scale profile.png
 
_______________
message ref: 6540
Hi Steve, 22 Chairs....(11 per side). I apply the raft at the end when it is on my slicer.....it worked for the earlier chairs so this rail profile is the only thing that has changed.....
 
_______________
message ref: 6543
Hi Michael,

Is the mesh repair seeing 22 separate items not linked together?

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6544
Hi Michael,
I started afresh, set gauge to S, created plain straight track with 11 sleepers.
Then used the Gauge > modify current settings > modify track gauge & set it to 8mm (this is a trick Martin showed me to get the two rows of chairs closer together on the raft.
Then added a rectangle shape to encompass the resultant chairs.
Also real > chairing > chairs on the template & set all cahirs to be solid (aka fixed ) jaws.
Then store & background.
Then DXF/STl export, set custom rail using the values you posted. then exported the STL.
Uploaded to the formware site & fixed ok.

I think the step you are missing is to add the raft

Martin has desigtned Templot so that it outputs the raft for you.
As he pointed out earlier today he is just plugging options in to the most conveneient place whilst he experiments.
However this did not take me long to perform.

Attachments box file, shape file, Stl, fixed stl

The only troule for me is that the resultant fied stl is just slightly too big for Mars 2 Pro build plate, so in S scale i would need to reduce the number of sleepers to 10 (20 chairs)
Hope this helps.
 

Attachments

  • market_square_2023_04_30_1722_01.box
    16.2 KB · Views: 65
  • market_square_23_04_30_1721_54.bgs3
    1 KB · Views: 66
  • market_square_23_04_30_1717_13.stl
    5.3 MB · Views: 52
  • market_square_23_04_30_1717_13_fixed.stl
    3.2 MB · Views: 58
_______________
message ref: 6546
@Michael Woods

Hi Michael,

That rail section is a bit chunky in head and foot, but I can't see any reason why it would be a problem:

michael_rail1.png


michael_rail.png


I rather doubt that the model fish angle matches the prototype 1:2.75, it is usually steeper on model rail. Say 1:1.5 or 1:1.75

If you change it, it would make the section look a bit better with slightly less head and foot depth.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6547
Hi Michael,
I started afresh, set gauge to S, created plain straight track with 11 sleepers.
Then used the Gauge > modify current settings > modify track gauge & set it to 8mm (this is a trick Martin showed me to get the two rows of chairs closer together on the raft.
Then added a rectangle shape to encompass the resultant chairs.
Also real > chairing > chairs on the template & set all cahirs to be solid (aka fixed ) jaws.
Then store & background.
Then DXF/STl export, set custom rail using the values you posted. then exported the STL.
Uploaded to the formware site & fixed ok.

I think the step you are missing is to add the raft

Martin has desigtned Templot so that it outputs the raft for you.
As he pointed out earlier today he is just plugging options in to the most conveneient place whilst he experiments.
However this did not take me long to perform.

Attachments box file, shape file, Stl, fixed stl

The only troule for me is that the resultant fied stl is just slightly too big for Mars 2 Pro build plate, so in S scale i would need to reduce the number of sleepers to 10 (20 chairs)
Hope this helps.
Thanks Steve - very useful!
 
_______________
message ref: 6549
Hi Michael,
I started afresh, set gauge to S, created plain straight track with 11 sleepers.
Then used the Gauge > modify current settings > modify track gauge & set it to 8mm (this is a trick Martin showed me to get the two rows of chairs closer together on the raft.
Then added a rectangle shape to encompass the resultant chairs.
Also real > chairing > chairs on the template & set all cahirs to be solid (aka fixed ) jaws.
Then store & background.
Then DXF/STl export, set custom rail using the values you posted. then exported the STL.
Uploaded to the formware site & fixed ok.

I think the step you are missing is to add the raft

Martin has desigtned Templot so that it outputs the raft for you.
As he pointed out earlier today he is just plugging options in to the most conveneient place whilst he experiments.
However this did not take me long to perform.

Attachments box file, shape file, Stl, fixed stl

The only troule for me is that the resultant fied stl is just slightly too big for Mars 2 Pro build plate, so in S scale i would need to reduce the number of sleepers to 10 (20 chairs)
Hope this helps.

Thanks Steve.

Here is that fixed STL in TurboCAD. Looks fine to me:

michael_rail1_steve.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6550
Thank you both - reset the profile reducing the side of the head and followed instructions....back on printer now....lets see but feeling optimistic !
 
_______________
message ref: 6551
Here is a version with loose jaw chairs & the loose jaws:-
1682873370586.png

I set gauge to 18mm, real > chairing > chairs on the template, then clicked [export all chairs with slots] button
store & background, then set gauge to 6mm then real > chairing > chairs on template (which means on the control template) then clicked [export only all loose outer jaws] button, store & background.
we now have two templates in background, one with the chairs and one with the loose jaws.
I then resized the raft to encompass all, then performed the export & fixed the file.
The idea being that you create a library of chair rafts, and note that these do not necessarily need to match (in quantity of chairs) the actual templates of your track plan that you will export as individual timber bases.

However when Templot is capable of exporting all the turnout chairs, these will not be general purpose.
For instance you will need separate sets of chairs for Left Handed B7 as opposed to right handed B7 (as I understand it from chats with Martin)
 

Attachments

  • s_scale_loose_jaw_chairs_23_04_30_1744_32_fixed.stl
    3.5 MB · Views: 54
  • s_scale_loose_jaw_chairs_2023_04_30_1755_07.box
    24.3 KB · Views: 63
  • s_scale_loose_jaw_chairs_23_04_30_1755_00.bgs3
    1 KB · Views: 55
_______________
message ref: 6552
MIchael,

Another tip.....

Once you have entered your custom rail data in the DXF dialogue box, it is worth clicking on the [save custom dat} button that also resides on that dialogue box
1682874369054.png


then next time you restart Templot and go into this dialogue box you can click on [load custom data] button to restore your S scale rail settings, it even set the custom rail radio button for you.
Saves having to re-create the S scale rail setting every time you load Templot.
STeve
 
_______________
message ref: 6553
@Steve_Cornford

Thanks Steve. :)

But don't fall into the trap of expecting everything to be in the custom settings file. It ought to be, and it will be one day, but it's one more thing that I haven't had time to keep up with.

You can see what is and isn't actually included in the SK4 file by opening it in a text editor such as Windows Notepad.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6554
HI Martin,
Earlier you mentioned the design of the crossing chairs. I think that it a good pragmatic approach that will allow us to get some turnouts built and tested. Worry about the fine cosmetic details later.
Also just stick bits of dialogue in where you can for now and shuffle it around at a suitable moment. Like just now for 238a when you move the chair parameters into the template from the DXF/STL export dialogue.

On that note, I did have a bit of a wobble when first going into the real > chairing > chairs on template screen.
It kept forgetting what I had clicked!
That is until I realised that I was just clicking on the red X in the top right corner!
As I could not see the ok button on my laptop screen!
Once I twigged this I clicked on the size slider in bottom right hand of trackpad & chose "smaller" & voila the [ok] button appeared on the chair dialogue screen.
Just mentioning this in case others have similar problem.

Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 6555
That is until I realised that I was just clicking on the red X in the top right corner!
As I could not see the ok button on my laptop screen!
Once I twigged this I clicked on the size slider in bottom right hand of trackpad & chose "smaller" & voila the [ok] button appeared on the chair dialogue screen.
Just mentioning this in case others have similar problem.
@Steve_Cornford

Thanks Steve,

I will put a duplicate OK button at the top. Are there any other places in Templot where you have the same problem? Presumably the DXF dialog doesn't fit too?

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6557
Although the DXF dialogue did not fit, it had a slider on the right hand side that allowed access to the bits at the bottom/top.
The "chairs on template" dialogue did not have the slider.
With "smaller" selected the whole DXF dialogue box is visible,
 
_______________
message ref: 6558
@Steve_Cornford

Thanks Steve. I will add the slider scrollbar to the chairs dialog. It should have been there anyway, because the list will be getting a lot longer before we are done.

Do you find the "smaller" program size convenient to see and click? Is your laptop smaller than most, or do you think lots of other folks are having the same problem? With my large desktop screen I have to be careful not to get carried away and fill it up! I don't have a laptop to try things on nowadays.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6559
I will let you know once I have used "smaller" for a few more days, but so far it is ok.
Adding the slider, sorry I mean "scroll bar" to give it the correct name (only been semi-retired for a couple of years and already forgotten most of the jargon) would save the problem.
Think I have an average size laptop screen, so far no problem, but if it was i could plug in my desktop monitor .
So far it is fine & i use it for your zoom sessions, chitubox & any other 64-bit programs I need to run.

Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 6560
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Here you go:

more_chair_options.png


The most-used buttons now at the top.

Scrollbar.

Two OK buttons.

Some new chairs -- which don't yet do anything.

Rails shown in green have loose outer jaws which are interchangeable on any template. It might be worth printing a stock of these loose jaws in advance, rather than making them at the same time as the chairs. These are the S1 , P , L1 , SC outer jaws:

S1 jaws have 2 ribs.
SC jaws have 1 rib.
L1 jaws have no rib.
P jaws have a bolt instead of a rib, and no key.

Rails shown in black have non-interchangeable loose jaws which will fit only in the chair they were created for.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6563
Very good Martin.
Thanks for the explanation too.
Near idea of coloured fonts to denote interchangeability across templates.
Midnight oil well spent

How do you get the blue background to the tick boxes with ticks?
Is that Templot setting or a Windows setting?
Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 6564
How do you get the blue background to the tick boxes with ticks?
Is that Templot setting or a Windows setting?
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

It's a Windows 11 change from Windows 10. Nothing to do with Templot or me.

I don't much like it -- the blue is too dark and the ticks are not bold enough. The menus have gone the other way in the latest Windows upgrade and no longer have the blue background when selected, which I don't like at all. Why can't Microsoft just leave things alone when they are working fine?

You can however get the blue and white menus back by clicking the blue bar on the left here:

blue_menus.png


which exploits a legacy setting in Delphi5.

The most infuriating change is the narrow scrollbars, which drive me nuts. I think it is all part of the change to touch-screens instead of a mouse.

It would in theory be possible to change some of this in the program manifest, but I don't know how it would respond on the many different versions of Windows in use without a lot of testing, so I tend to leave it alone. It will almost certainly change again in the next Windows upgrade, so there is no point in chasing a moving feast.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 6566
Martin / Steve,

Thanks for your help.....work in progress, bit more to do to make the chairs always sit 100% but this is definately the way forward (for me).

Screenshot 2023-05-01 165532.png


Screenshot 2023-05-01 165640.png
 
_______________
message ref: 6577
Back
Top