Experimental Plug Track: continued

[Martin Wynne]

Ergo whist the cast A chair is correct, its only strictly correct for a few short years after of the adoption REA design concept.

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Well that's broadly true, but because something is introduced doesn't mean all track is immediately renewed. On main running lines renewals would be typically at around 15-20 year intervals. On secondary and branch lines much longer. For sidings and yards probably never -- many of those would still have had pre-grouping track with loose-heel switches to the end. And cast A chairs.

For this reason I thought you were keen to add the slab and bracket option.

The reason for wanting to do it as soon as possible is to prevent being continually asked about it! Especially by folks who regard it as an error. I had over 10 years supplying model track as 85A Models back in the 1970s and 1980s and I think I know the minds of modellers quite well.

For amusement have a look at the slab & bracket chairs on the Finetrax 00 and EM kits (I don't know about P4) -- the through bolt has a bend in the middle! Wayne can sleep easy -- no-one else will notice.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[genixia]

View attachment 6851

Oh my. That looks spectacular.

 

[Martin Wynne]

The reason for wanting to do it as soon as possible is to prevent being continually asked about it! Especially by folks who regard it as an error. I had over 10 years supplying model track as 85A Models back in the 1970s and 1980s and I think I know the minds of modellers quite well.

@Phil G

Sorry Phil. That didn't read quite as I intended. I wasn't referring to you.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

But sometimes a clip between the timbers can't be avoided, and I'm currently re-working the clip functions to make that easier. The current functions are little more than the original kludges to prove the concept.

@genixia

I've been playing with the connector clips, and really the present arrangements can't be considered fit for purpose, if we want to say that FDM plug track is ready for use. It all works, but it is far too clunky and time-consuming to do.

I'm looking at a single-click function in the shove timbers to add a clip between the timbers as part of the template. This would be in the BOX file and completely independent of the existing connector clips in the background shapes. But to the same design, so that they could connect if desired. If the clip is part of the template, the side flanges on the timber can be automatically adjusted to fit round the clip without conflicting with it or weakening the timber.

Ideally there would be an option to have the clip added automatically to the end timber while shortening or blanking a template for a brick.

None of this works of course if you want a clip between one template and the next. But generally it is better to avoid having the brick boundaries on the template boundaries, even if at first sight that seems the logical place for them.

Not working yet, but while I'm re-working the BOX file for the chair heaving, it makes sense to allow for other timber-specific data such as this.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

.
Another day, another brain failure.

I've just been trying to fit some EM crossing chairs in a P4 timbering base (despite having "EM" written on the back of the raft). They don't fit of course, because the wider flangeway gap makes them longer.

If we ever reach the stage of creating or sharing a library of STL files, it will be essential to mark them very clearly with the relevant track standard, both on any labels on the raft and also in the file name.

I have been thinking of making up a bit of pointwork in EM-SF to see how it looks alongside EM and P4. It will require a major effort of will not to get the chairs muddled up. The only safe way will be to keep all EM-SF stuff in a separate locked room, and be searched on the way in and out.

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

But where do you keep the key(s)?


Side Flanges & Connector Clips
If the user is going to stick the timbering base down before inserting any plugs, and also if using clip-fit plugs would it harm to reduce the width of the side flanges?

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I'm not too clear what you mean there? You can already set the flange width to whatever you want:

Or switch them off entirely in the layers. Or on individual timbers via the shove timbers dialog.

Generally, for 12" turnout timbers near the middle of a turnout, containing only S1 ordinary chairs, removing the flanges doesn't do any harm. For long timbers under the V-crossing, especially if square-on, the skewed long sockets for 2 check rail chairs and the crossing chairs do combine to weaken the timber so that it can be pushed slightly to one side if there are no side flanges. Which would upset the rail alignment and disrupt the dimensional integrity of the whole brick. Having an undercut in the socket walls for the clip-fit plugs has weakened them further. On the other hand the clip-fit plugs require much less force to insert them, so the risk of distorting the timber is reduced.

How or if these issues are impacted by whether clipped together bricks are assembled in situ or on the bench is still unclear. Or whether the base is glued down or screwed/pinned in place. Or whether alignment pins are used through the hole in the clips. The chairs can be inserted in the base before or after clipping the bases together, and before or after transferring the base(s) from the bench to the layout. Likewise the loose jaws, although I think leaning across a baseboard to insert the loose jaws wouldn't be much fun.

The bottom line is that we don't yet know the answers to any of this. Not enough FDM track has been built and installed to have reached a consensus on the best way of doing it. Ideally we need a lengthy narrative posted on here of practical experiences building and laying plug track, before announcing to the world that it is ready for use. At present if a new user comes on here and asks the best way of using plug track on his layout, I don't really have an answer. I can suggest ideas, but not provide a proven method. But I'm sure there is one out there.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
It was just a suggestion to use the existing facility of adjusting the width of the flange by reducing it, to mitigate the addition of a connector clip. I used that facility when printing my resin bases, as I the method I used was to stick the bases down to the trackbed before inserting chairs.
I can see that on a wide baseboard sticking timbering bricks down before chair insertion would cause "back stretching" problems when inserting the chairs and also make slotting in the loose jaws even harder!

By the way "Experimental" sounds (and reads) a lot better than "Unfinished", and easier to rebut criticism of missing K crossings etc.

Keep up the good work.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

By the way "Experimental" sounds (and reads) a lot better than "Unfinished", and easier to rebut criticism of missing K crossings etc.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Perhaps you could have that argument with James and Phil and let me know the result.

Maybe "in progress" sounds more positive than "unfinished"?

Or "this project is still at an unfolding developmental stage"?

Knowing where we are going would help.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[James Walters]

.
Another day, another brain failure.

I've just been trying to fit some EM crossing chairs in a P4 timbering base (despite having "EM" written on the back of the raft). They don't fit of course, because the wider flangeway gap makes them longer.

If we ever reach the stage of creating or sharing a library of STL files, it will be essential to mark them very clearly with the relevant track standard, both on any labels on the raft and also in the file name.

I have been thinking of making up a bit of pointwork in EM-SF to see how it looks alongside EM and P4. It will require a major effort of will not to get the chairs muddled up. The only safe way will be to keep all EM-SF stuff in a separate locked room, and be searched on the way in and out.

Martin.

Should we aim a file naming standard, something like Gauge_Chair Type_Clip Fit, etc.

Just a thought.

 

[Phil G]

The only safe way will be to keep all EM-SF stuff in a separate locked room, and be searched on the way in and out.

Hi Martin,
your making EM-SF sounding like a Brexit story
cheers
Phil,

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
The correct computer terminology for Plug track within Templot, is, it's at a Beta release stage.
It was not so much the name I was getting at. I think was can all agree its still a work in progress, but it has also reached a stage that something tangible can now be created and more importantly demonstrated to work very well and look fantastic.

My real point was, Plug Track is ready for more public awareness, As much to acknowledge Martins sterling efforts, as for any other reason.
James showing it at Scale forum is a good start, it should be noted however Plug track generates very useful computer files.
primarily STL and DXF files.
Its important its understood physical machines are required to further turn these files into practical objects.

I acknowledge we all understand this, but it is a point that will need emphasizing.

For this reason quite a few people actually seeing what its can do is important. As it drives the awareness of the need to acquire the physical machines in the first place.
Cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
When I changed the width of sleeper E1 from 3.33mm to 4.00mm, it did what I wanted and converted the S1 chairs to S1J chairs.

If I revise the width back to 3.33mm however it leaves the chairs as S1J.

Just thought I would let you know. I expect the forthcoming Heave chairs function will allow us control over this in due course.

Steve

ps something new I learnt today was how to move the rail join marks, which uses your locators, so thanks for that function too.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks. It works ok if you use the widen and narrow buttons -- each click widens or narrows by 2" scale. Or to revert to normal you can click the restore timber button (but that also reverts any other shove changes to length, etc.)

The problem is that the normal width needs to be entered as 3.333333mm recurring, which is tricky.

The way to get round that is to click the full size inches option:

and you can then enter the normal width as 10 inches.

Thanks for reporting it -- I will make Templot less fussy about the exact widths.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[genixia]

If you're looking for a release label for Plug Track's current status, how about "REA-Alpha"? That's a fairly accurate description of where it is - it's capable of creating trackwork with functionality that is near-complete for REA Bullhead, but still has a few kinks to fix. It also makes it clear that it can't create e.g. GWR or FBR chairs yet. Labeling it Alpha would indicate that significant functional or UI changes could still be made before completion. (Beta would usually imply that most changes are minor bugfixes.)

I think that a good roadmap would be to get REA functionality to Beta standard and then release as "REA-Beta". Hopefully at that point other chairings can be added without requiring major changes to existing Plug Track, and then Plug Track as a whole can be released as "Beta".

 

[Martin Wynne]

If you're looking for a release label for Plug Track's current status,

@genixia

Hi Ian,

Well no, I'm not looking for a "release label". I'm not pretending to be a professional software developer. This is just my hobby -- it proceeds at the pace I choose it to proceed, in the direction I choose it to go, and where it will eventually lead, who knows?

I'm just concerned to ensure that anyone who wants to join in the fun understands all that.

It's also a bit daft to talk in terms of alpha and beta, or any other Greek letters, after Templot has been in existence for over 40 years and publicly available for over 20 years. All the existing track design functions are working normally -- the majority of Templot users are interested only in 2D track design and printed paper construction templates. It is only the recent changes to the 3D file exports which are in any way new/experimental/unfinished.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Thanks Martin, clicking on [widen] or [narrow] is a lot easier than clicking on the width field and typing in 4.0 or 3.33!
I will use thise buttons in future.
Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
Out of interest is there a reason you prefer to use model widths such as 4 mm and 3.333r mm for timbers?
Once I realised typing in prototype values, and letting Templot scale it by your gauge works seamlessly. I have always done it that way.
I must admit I have not used the [widen] or [narrow] buttons either, so maybe I will go that route myself as well.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

In this case I wanted E1 and E2 sleepers to become 12" timbers to carry S1J joint chairs, so that I could move the rail joint between them.
The gap between X10 and E1 was a bit small for a fishplate.
Steve

 

[Phil G]

In this case I wanted E1 and E2 sleepers to become 12" timbers to carry S1J joint chairs, so that I could move the rail joint between them.
Steve

Hi Steve,
Yes I got that, I was wondering why your using scale values, That's all. As you have just typed both E1 and E2 could have been entered as 12 inches.
I am not trying to be funny, I am genuinely asking you, is there a reason to use scale values, that maybe I am missing?
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

When I clicked on  shove timbers it displayed as 3.33mm, my simple mind wanted it as 4mm, so that is what I did.

 

[Phil G]

When I clicked on  shove timbers it displayed as 3.33mm, my simple mind wanted it as 4mm, so that is what I did.

Ok Steve
thanks, now I understand fully.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Trevor]

Hello,
The orders I put in at Geeetech have totally failed.When I try to pay with Paypal the screen just goes blank.I have been told my orders will be deleted in 24hours due to non payment. What sort of company is that? Looks like I wont be getting things any time soon.
Trevor.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hello,
The orders I put in at Geeetech have totally failed.When I try to pay with Paypal the screen just goes blank.I have been told my orders will be deleted in 24hours due to non payment. What sort of company is that? Looks like I wont be getting things any time soon.
Trevor.

@Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble. I found their website very clunky to follow. It appears to be a world-wide site translated from Chinese with the expectation that everyone else is in the USA.

Did you create a user account on there first? It seemed to make a difference for me. Then the page you want is this one:

https://www.geeetech.com/alkaid-lcd-light-curing-resin-3d-printer-p-1210.html

To see the UK price, click Ship To at the top of the page and enter your location and currency. Then click GB for Ship From.

Did you try to order the printer+washer bundle? As far as I could make out that is delivered from China, only the printer itself is available from a UK source. (There are other suitable washer/cure units available on Amazon UK.)

When I finally got it showing Ship from GB and Ship To GB and showing UK prices, £82 + £7 delivery, it all went fine and accepted my PayPal.

I then got very polite thank you emails, and another one within 24 hours telling me it had been shipped. Nowhere could I find where it had in fact been shipped from, or what the likely delivery time would be. I was given a tracking number without any explanation of which delivery company it referred to. However I recognised the tracking number format as being a Yodel number. Putting the number in the Yodel web site came up with the fact that it was already in their hands -- and it was delivered at breakfast time the very next morning. All beautifully packed and in perfect condition.

In very tiny lettering on the box label, it appears that it was actually sent from:

4PX Express Online Seller (phone 02081 278528)
Leicester Commercial Park Unit 1
Dorsey Way
LE19 4DB

Which seems to be a global delivery network for many far east suppliers: https://en.4px.com

I hope this helps,

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Trevor]

@Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble. I found their website very clunky to follow. It appears to be a world-wide site translated from Chinese with the expectation that everyone else is in the USA.

Did you create a user account on there first? It seemed to make a difference for me. Then the page you want is this one:

https://www.geeetech.com/alkaid-lcd-light-curing-resin-3d-printer-p-1210.html

To see the UK price, click Ship To at the top of the page and enter your location and currency. Then click GB for Ship From.

Did you try to order the printer+washer bundle? As far as I could make out that is delivered from China, only the printer itself is available from a UK source. (There are other suitable washer/cure units available on Amazon UK.)

When I finally got it showing Ship from GB and Ship To GB and showing UK prices, £82 + £7 delivery, it all went fine and accepted my PayPal.

I then got very polite thank you emails, and another one within 24 hours telling me it had been shipped. Nowhere could I find where it had in fact been shipped from, or what the likely delivery time would be. I was given a tracking number without any explanation of which delivery company it referred to. However I recognised the tracking number format as being a Yodel number. Putting the number in the Yodel web site came up with the fact that it was already in their hands -- and it was delivered at breakfast time the very next morning. All beautifully packed and in perfect condition.

In very tiny lettering on the box label, it appears that it was actually sent from:

4PX Express Online Seller (phone 02081 278528)
Leicester Commercial Park Unit 1
Dorsey Way
LE19 4DB

Which seems to be a global delivery network for many far east suppliers: https://en.4px.com

I hope this helps,

cheers,

Martin.

Hello Martin,
The printer shown in the link was ordered for delivery in the UK.The washer drier and resin were supposedly coming from China.When I tried paying for the printer again via Paypal ended up with another on order.
Not a good situation.
Regards
Trevor..

 

[Martin Wynne]

The washer drier and resin were supposedly coming from China

@Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Which resin? Are you intending to use it for plug track chairs? The resin for those needs to be a resilient type, not the standard resins, which are too brittle. I have no information about the Geeetech resin.

The resin several of us are using with success for the chairs is Elegoo ABS-Like resin. It's readily available in the UK from Amazon (and probably elsewhere):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07P84PQCF

You will also need some IPA for washing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082XQ4W4R

Probably other so-called "ABS-Like" resins are equally good, but I haven't tried them.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

p.s.

There is an upgraded version 2.0 of the Elegoo ABS-Like resin:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08T1QN197

Reportedly it has less shrinkage, but not quite so strong. Anyone tried it?

We are not too bothered about shrinkage for the chairs (it affects bulky items more), but we do need maximum strength. So maybe the original version is better for us. Assuming it continues to be available.

Martin.

 

[Trevor]

Hello Martin,
The printer shown in the link was ordered for delivery in the UK.The washer drier and resin were supposedly coming from China.When I tried paying for the printer again via Paypal ended up with another on order.
Not a good situation.
Regards
Trevor..

p.s.

There is an upgraded version 2.0 of the Elegoo ABS-Like resin:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08T1QN197

Reportedly it has less shrinkage, but not quite so strong. Anyone tried it?

We are not too bothered about shrinkage for the chairs (it affects bulky items more), but we do need maximum strength. So maybe the original version is better for us. Assuming it continues to be available.

Martin.

Hello Martin,
I wanted the resin from the same company while I was learning how to use the machine I ordered from them.
That way I had hoped to have all issues that may have occurred covered.That appears a bit redundant now.
Regards
Trevor

 

[NoIdea]

Apologies if this should be in another thread, or a new thread.

I'm returning to the hobby after a 40+ year gap so bear with me. I'm trying to understand if the images of chairs and sleepers on a sprue I've seen on other topics were produced with with a resin printer, or do I need a filament printer for this?

 

[Martin Wynne]

@NoIdea

Hi Martin,

Welcome to Templot Club.

The chairs are produced on a resin printer.

The timbering bases are produced on a filament printer. Or they can be cut from plywood on a laser cutter.

A lot of the images here are renderings from a computer program, not the real thing, which means they look the same for both.

This is real:

Resin-printed chairs in FDM (filament)-printed timbers.

There is an overview of the basics at:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/getting-started-with-3d-plug-track.722/

I'm sorry it is a bit convoluted to follow on here -- we have been experimenting with different ideas for a couple of years. If you visit the Scaleforum exhibition this weekend you will be able to see plug track in the flesh:

https://www.scaleforum.org

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175743-scaleforum-2023-23-24-september/?do=findComment&comment=5282006

cheers,

Martin.

 

[NoIdea]

@Martin Wynne - Thanks for this.

I've been following many topics on this and other forums as my learning curve is near perpendicular . There's no need to apologise as I understand this is all experimental.

My first goal is to produce a straight piece of plug track exactly 180mm in length to match the length of a medium TT:120 turnout from a well-known track manufacturer beginning with 'P'.

Before I start investing in 3D printers I'd appreciate your opinion as to whether this is feasible in this scale?

The 2D version output is perfect so the old analog approach using a soldering iron and copper-clad strips is another thing I'll try.

 

[Martin Wynne]

My first goal is to produce a straight piece of plug track exactly 180mm in length to match the length of a medium TT:120 turnout from a well-known track manufacturer beginning with 'P'.

Before I start investing in 3D printers I'd appreciate your opinion as to whether this is feasible in this scale?

@NoIdea

Hi Martin,

My first question would be using what rail? Plug track is currently only for bullhead track. I believe the 3mm Society have a code 60 bullhead rail available to members which might be usable in the smaller scale. To be correct scale for 1:120 it should be code 48 bullhead rail, so you would need to scale up the chairs to match a larger rail.

I doubt the loose-jaws option would be feasible at that scale, but the solid slide-on chairs might be doable. If I can get some of that rail I will do some test prints and find out.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[NoIdea]

@Martin Wynne,

According to the product docs it's Code 55, but no mention of rail type.

Reading in the RMWeb forums there's all sort of debate about which standards are in play. The product docs claim NEM standards but that is disputed in the forums. I'm guessing this is to be compatible with other track manufacturers products.

So my current thinking is either align my experiments to match the product or, more likely, build prototypical using Templot. I'm not even going with the Code 80 rail that Hornby set track uses .

"If I can get some of that rail I will do some test prints and find out"

I really appreciate this but let me do the experimenting. I have so much else to research and source so it's going to take time for me to get going.

There's one thing I could really do with help and that's sourcing rail. I can strip the rail from flexi-track but are there better sources?

Thanks for your help, Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

@James Walters

Just a reminder that if you are visiting Scaleforum this weekend, James will have some bits of plug track to see on his demo stand "Starting in P4". See his previous post.

Including this P4 timbering base (photo taken between the rain):

Made up from 3 FDM bricks clipped together. A 1:7.5 curved crossover, plus goods loop alongside.

You will be able to try clipping chairs into the sockets. Be sure to get the correct ones in the correct sockets, and the correct way round -- the pin slot for the loose jaw goes on the outside of the rail. Because once clipped in place, they are next to impossible to remove! If you do get one wrong it doesn't matter -- this is purely a display item, it's not going to be part of a layout.

The chairs look very fiddly to handle, but they can be handled very easily by pushing a cocktail stick into the pin slot. If you do that before snipping them from the raft, you can get them from raft to installed in the timbering base, untouched by human hand.

If they don't clip fully down first time, use a blunted cocktail stick to push them home.

After clipping them in place, you might detect some very slight end-play between the chair and the socket on some of them. This is down to variations in the resin shrinkage, and rounding effects of the printer resolution. It's not enough to affect 00-SF or EM track, but it might not hold the gauge for P4 within the desired limits. So I shall have to look again at the default tolerances for clip-fit -- the problem being that printers vary, and if I set the defaults too tight some folks will have problems.

The thought occurs that having got the clip-fit side tangs on the plugs working, it might be possible to do something similar on the ends. It can't be on the plug, because of the pin slots. But it might be possible to have a resilient element in the end of the socket. More experimenting needed.

p.s. Rafts marked ALK on the back have been printed on the Alkaid printer. Others on the Mars.

Bricks printed in JAYO Rustic Grey PLA Plus filament -- still a fair way from weathered creosote, but I haven't found anything closer:

Streaking it with typing correction fluid adds some rough-sawn wood-like texture. I sense a whole new topic starting.

I-spy a slab & bracket chair looking at me.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[KHC1]

Just a thought on the end play. Would a resin printed sleeper chair combined be used to hold the final section in place. Then a small amount float through out the rest of the assembly would not present a problem.

Keith
Ps has anyone tried printing chairs in fdm just to see if it works.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Ps has anyone tried printing chairs in fdm just to see if it works.

@KHC1 @AndyB

Hi Keith,

Andy has been experimenting with FDM chairs. see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/fdm-printed-chairs-and-baseplates.704/

p.s. Keith, sorry I forgot about the timbering bricks for your B-5 turnouts. I will get it done soon.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[James Walters]

@James Walters

Just a reminder that if you are visiting Scaleforum this weekend, James will have some bits of plug track to see on his demo stand "Starting in P4". See his previous post.

Including this P4 timbering base (photo taken between the rain):

View attachment 6878

Made up from 3 FDM bricks clipped together. A 1:7.5 curved crossover, plus goods loop alongside.

You will be able to try clipping chairs into the sockets. Be sure to get the correct ones in the correct sockets, and the correct way round -- the pin slot for the loose jaw goes on the outside of the rail. Because once clipped in place, they are next to impossible to remove! If you do get one wrong it doesn't matter -- this is purely a display item, it's not going to be part of a layout.

The chairs look very fiddly to handle, but they can be handled very easily by pushing a cocktail stick into the pin slot. If you do that before snipping them from the raft, you can get them from raft to installed in the timbering base, untouched by human hand.

If they don't clip fully down first time, use a blunted cocktail stick to push them home.

After clipping them in place, you might detect some very slight end-play between the chair and the socket on some of them. This is down to variations in the resin shrinkage, and rounding effects of the printer resolution. It's not enough to affect 00-SF or EM track, but it might not hold the gauge for P4 within the desired limits. So I shall have to look again at the default tolerances for clip-fit -- the problem being that printers vary, and if I set the defaults too tight some folks will have problems.

The thought occurs that having got the clip-fit side tangs on the plugs working, it might be possible to do something similar on the ends. It can't be on the plug, because of the pin slots. But it might be possible to have a flexible element in the end of the socket. More experimenting needed.

p.s. Rafts marked ALK on the back have been printed on the Alkaid printer. Others on the Mars.

cheers,

Martin.

This is looking really impressive Martin. I can't wait to see it in the flesh.

 

[LassUnsSchaun]

...
My first goal is to produce a straight piece of plug track exactly 180mm in length to match the length of a medium TT:120 turnout from a well-known track manufacturer beginning with 'P'.
...

...
According to the product docs it's Code 55, but no mention of rail type.

Reading in the RMWeb forums there's all sort of debate about which standards are in play. The product docs claim NEM standards but that is disputed in the forums. I'm guessing this is to be compatible with other track manufacturers products.

So my current thinking is either align my experiments to match the product or, more likely, build prototypical using Templot. I'm not even going with the Code 80 rail that Hornby set track uses .

"If I can get some of that rail I will do some test prints and find out"

I really appreciate this but let me do the experimenting. I have so much else to research and source so it's going to take time for me to get going.

There's one thing I could really do with help and that's sourcing rail. I can strip the rail from flexi-track but are there better sources?
...

Hey

That would be according to NEM 120, here https://www.morop.org/images/NEM_register/NEM_E/nem120_en_2010.pdf
depending on era and mainline / branchline / sidings use.

Alternatively to beginning with 'P',
you could take a look at Tillig the old bull in TT, here https://www.tillig.com/eng/Modellgleissysteme.html
they do sell rail profils https://www.tillig.com/eng/Produkte/produktinfo-83500.html

---

Otherwise nice and interessting topic @Martin Wynne and @James Walters

Cheers
LassUnsSchaun

 

[genixia]

The thought occurs that having got the clip-fit side tangs on the plugs working, it might be possible to do something similar on the ends. It can't be on the plug, because of the pin slots. But it might be possible to have a flexible element in the end of the socket. More experimenting needed.

Martin.

Some thoughts on this:
1. Keeping one end solid as-is (presumably the outer end?) to set the gauge, and only removing any tolerance slop at the opposite end should give the most consistent gauging for any given modeler's choices of printers and settings. Obviously that can't be true for crossing chairs that hold two rails though.
2. Printers and processes will continue to improve, making this less of an issue in the future. Is leaving this alone a viable option for now with the hope that it solves itself?
3. I think that anyone mad enough to take on P4 will likely be willing to test their tolerances and gauging with their first prints anyway. That's probably true of anyone using Plug Track, at least in the near term, too. Spending a few hours up front to ensure that Plug Track processes are dialed in still beats spending the few hours per turnout gauging every chair that scratch-building currently requires.
4. Points 2 and 3 apply to anyone trying to work in TT120, and do I dare say ... N gauge (in the future)? I wonder where the real practical limit is. Younger eyes and hands have an easier time with fine detail work and might be able to achieve smaller gauges in Plug Track than those of us in the older generations can.
5. An alternative to a flexure here might be desirable. Unlike the side clips that once clipped into place remove most if not all of the strain on the flexure, this application could leave it under strain forever. If we rely on such a flexure to remove excessive slop in lieu of better tolerances, we risk those flexures breaking down the road and trackwork then becoming loose. With the flexure on the timber, fixing it without completely relaying it becomes challenging. If we can find a way of removing slop that keeps that risk on the chair, at least we might be able to fix broken chairs without ripping out timbers and ballast. Another option might be a fitting that is designed to permanently deform upon installation to remove slop. Maybe a thin wedge that squishes plastically, or a knife edge that digs into the other side. The challenge there is that those ideas are very much dependent on the material properties of both chairs and timbers.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Both Peco and Tillig are flat bottom rail profile .
Steve
Edited to add the all important TT qualifier!