THIS WEEK  -  NEXT ZOOM MEETING - All welcome - The next Zoom meeting is on Wednesday 27th September 2023 at 8pm UK time (20:00 BST - 19:00 UTC). How to take part: click here.

TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Experimental Plug Track: continued

Quick reply >
Wthin Templot the text characters are limited to:-
the numbers: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
the letters: A,C,E,F,G,H,L,P,U
the characters: minus,equals,underscore
the # character gets translated to minus
all other characters get translated to the "unknown" character which is three horizontal bars of segments (of the 7 segment display paradigm)

1690797930661.png

Here is a 4mm L1 fixed jaw chair raft with a text label #4#L1#F to identify it. This has an exagerated text height of 5mm.
I suppose I should have put 75CL in their to represent suitable for code 75 C&L rail.
Steve on a rainy day
 
_______________
message ref: 7297
Wthin Templot the text characters are limited to:-
the numbers: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
the letters: A,C,E,F,G,H,L,P,U
the characters: minus,equals,underscore
the # character gets translated to minus
all other characters get translated to the "unknown" character which is three horizontal bars of segments (of the 7 segment display paradigm)

View attachment 6446
Here is a 4mm L1 fixed jaw chair raft with a text label #4#L1#F to identify it. This has an exagerated text height of 5mm.
I suppose I should have put 75CL in their to represent suitable for code 75 C&L rail.
Steve on a rainy day
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

In the next update I have added lower case:

c d h i n o r t u

Also full stop/decimal dot and spaces.

Also O is the same as 0, I is the same as 1, comma is the same as full stop.

Pipe ( | shift+backslash ) is the same as 1 but on the left instead of right.

They are not very readable in 7-seg and one fine day I will increase them to 16-seg.

The decimal dot is exaggerated, because otherwise Cura ignores it as a blip in the design:

jig_data.png


p.s. the 3 horizontal bars character is called a hamburger. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7299
Hi Martin,
Enhancement requests (to be added to the end of your todo list if approved by you)
Colour selection
When we display the box list it displays the optional colour of each background template as in a column just before the templaye ID number:-
1690817031924.png

Some of these colour differences are quite subtle, especially if like me you have chosen a lot!
Would it be possible to display the RGB code of the relevant colour when you click on the [info] button?
Or would it be possible to click on the colour swatch if a particular template in the list & get Templot to copy that colour to the "experimental 3D" pop-up window, thus enabling the next template to be stored to be set to the same colour combo?

Of course now that I have learnt about "group" selection & export of "by group" this might be redundant..


Background shapes - Raft/Slabs
It is possible to attribute colours to these rafts, thus differentiating between them.
But if we have say 3 rafts each with a different coulur, but each colour matching a set of stored templates, when we generate a 3D export "by colour", having chosen a colour, all the rafts get included in the export, including ones without colur and ones with the wrong colour. Would it be possible to make the export "by colour" just export the chosen colour raft in much the same way that it only exports the chosen colour backgound templates?
I dont think that their is a group option for shapes.

Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 7300
Hi Martin,
Enhancement requests (to be added to the end of your todo list if approved by you)
Colour selection
When we display the box list it displays the optional colour of each background template as in a column just before the templaye ID number:-
View attachment 6450
Some of these colour differences are quite subtle, especially if like me you have chosen a lot!
Would it be possible to display the RGB code of the relevant colour when you click on the [info] button?
Or would it be possible to click on the colour swatch if a particular template in the list & get Templot to copy that colour to the "experimental 3D" pop-up window, thus enabling the next template to be stored to be set to the same colour combo?

Of course now that I have learnt about "group" selection & export of "by group" this might be redundant..


Background shapes - Raft/Slabs
It is possible to attribute colours to these rafts, thus differentiating between them.
But if we have say 3 rafts each with a different coulur, but each colour matching a set of stored templates, when we generate a 3D export "by colour", having chosen a colour, all the rafts get included in the export, including ones without colur and ones with the wrong colour. Would it be possible to make the export "by colour" just export the chosen colour raft in much the same way that it only exports the chosen colour backgound templates?
I dont think that their is a group option for shapes.

Steve
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Many thanks for your ideas. It's all doable, but quite a lot to think about. :)

Clicking on a colour patch separately from clicking to select the template in the list is doable but tricky.

The storage box dialog is currently packed solid with not much space for extra features or buttons. The obvious solution is to make it bigger, but I know that not everyone has a large screen. How much of your screen does it take up? Is there space to make it about 40 pixels deeper, for an additional row of information and buttons? On the other hand it has its own menu structure, and the easiest solution is always to add extra menu items. But it's difficult to display colours on the menus without creating a lot of work elsewhere.

The rafts being in the background shapes is just a temporary kludge so that we can at least get some chairs printed, it's not intended to be the final design. There will be a separate function to draw rafts around the chairs, and hopefully a function to create rafts automatically for all the chairs in the export.

In the meantime, if you have several rafts, you can prevent unwanted ones being exported if you select it in the list and untick the box below the list:

shapes_tickboxes.png


As far as I know that's working for raft exports, you might like to test it for me. If not it's a bug, and an easy fix.

p.s. If you click the other box, you can flash it on and off on the trackpad to make sure you have selected the right one.

You can change the colour of brick shapes in the splint/slab menu on there.

Thanks again,

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7301
Hi Martin,
Unticking the "show on output" works fine, well at least in the preview (my favourite button).
That solves the problem of having multiple raft/slabs as shapes & only wanting one to be exported, thanks :)

Here is she storage box screen extended down to fit my laptop screen, I have program size set to "small"
1690824814230.png

Sorry here is some more feedback, hope it helps not hinders.
By the way in an earlier post you mentioned the "save custome date" and "load custom data" on the Export DXF/STL dialogue screen.
I do use those and found them very useful.
It would be good if it saved any changes made by pressing buttons in that same column that the save/load buttons are.
At the moment it does not save the [chair/socket fit] button data nor the [chair support] data
I tend to reduce this parameter from 0.79mm (the default) to 0.60mm to give a mre defined edge to slide the huron cutters up to before snipping the chairs, without any adverse print problems.
Cheers Steve
edit to add missing screenshot, whoops
1690826026469.png
 
_______________
message ref: 7302
Last edited:
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Yes of course. Every single thing will be in the save custom files, including whether or not you want sugar in your coffee while waiting for the print to finish. :)

It's just that I haven't got round to doing it all yet. Writing the save and load functions is very tedious because it's in XML format. It's also very easy to make mistakes which the compiler won't flag, so I have to be very careful and do a bit at a time.

Also there will need to be some files to save the custom chair designs when we get that far, and the chair heaving settings.

So much still to do. :(

I'm just now finalising the designs for the filing jigs for the vee rails. Next will be the jigs for the switch blade planing. Then some rail bending fixtures for the knuckle bends and switch set bends. Then the slab & bracket "A" chair. Then the chairs for K-crossings...

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7303
<ah>the joys of XML</ah>
I have had to write exports from accounting software to XML format files in the past. Verbose to say the least, now i cant even remember the name of the very good XML editor/viewer that i used for checking.
But if i can help in any way to reduce the tedium let me know.
Luddite Steve who believes George 4 is the best operating system known to man.
 
_______________
message ref: 7304
@Steve_Cornford @graeme @Alistair Ward

It doesn't have to be XML -- left to myself I would probably have used a binary format (as the BOX files). But we need a format which Graeme and Alistair can one day load into OpenTemplot -- if we ever get as far as chairs and 3D exports in OpenTemplot.

Templot already contained Nils's XML engine (for the sketchboard files), so I used that. It's also used for the BGS3 shapes files.

Thanks for the offer to help, I may take you up on that later. If you open a saved SK4 file in a text editor you can see what is so far in there -- not very much. Note that most of the data is in prototype inches, even for stuff which doesn't have a prototype such as the plugs. If you can remember the utility you used for checking XML that would be great.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7305
.
Vee-rail filing jigs now done.

p.s. it's grey FDM filament, not a resin print:


new_filing_jig.jpg


new_jig5.png


Working fine. Can be printed for any angle 1: 0.5 to 1:20 in 4mm/ft scale.

Overall size for most angles is 85mm x 50mm. The thickness can be set as required -- the default is 18mm.

The large opening in the middle allows it to be clamped on the corner of a table, if holding it in a bench vice isn't convenient.

Using all-threads with double wing nuts makes it easy to hand tighten without needing any other tools ( screwdriver, spanner, socket) on the head, but obviously any ordinary M6 (6mm) bolts will do.

The square holes are slightly undersize -- self-tap the bolt through the hole, then pull it through with a wing nut to strip the thread in the jig. The result is a close fitting bolt which will align the two halves.

Total cost of filament about £1. eSUN toughened PLA Plus, to resist filing -- same as used for the timbering bases:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2

Total time to print both halves was 3 hours 45 minutes. If using a glass bed, add 20 minutes or so for it to go cold -- you will hear a crack as differential contraction frees it from the glass and you can then just lift it off. FDM printing always seems slow -- until you start some other job while you are waiting, in which case I can guarantee the print will be finished before you are ready for it. :)

I will write some more later about the slicer settings to use in Cura, and adjustments for 7mm/ft rail.

In the next Templot update. Should I be releasing this now, or wait until I have done the filing jigs for the switch blades? They are more involved and will take a bit longer.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7307
Neat enhancement for clamping to work table.
Perhaps I should refrain from voicing opinion regarding release into the wild as I don't have an FDM printer(yet)! Whatever is mist convenient for you. I think you have mentioned that it would include a few other minor improvements/fixes that you would like exercised.

Fishplates
In the meantime I have been giving these fishplates a go:-
20230801_095446.jpg
Available from Brassmasters or Scalefour stores.
Each pair has a front & back.
I assume the bolt heads go on the inside face of the running rail, and the nuts go on the outside.
In some places I have just cut a not h in the top of the rail coinciding with the rail break in Templot, then super glued the fishplate centred under that cut. I can do this as the rail drops vertically onto the chairs and then loose faws inserted, rather than having to slide chairs along.

I find it is much easier to position & glue these with rail on its side.
Where there are actual physical breaks in the rail I am going to try soldering one of each pair of fishplates to each rail. The starting rail having inside fishplates then subsequent rails having the outside fishplate at that end and an inside fishplate at the other end.
We shall see how I get on, all part of the great experiment.
where I need an insulated fishplate I have managed to use an Exactoscale H fishplate, by gluing it onto the end of the wing rail before dropping vfx the wing rail down onto the chair seats & inserting the loose jaws.
Tge blade/ closure rail can then be slid into the other part if the H as you drop it down onto the chair seats of the loose jawed chairs.
Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 7308
Last edited:
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Many thanks for the info re fishplates.

When we have got the plug track properly going we shall need a Plug Track Builders Guide with all this stuff collected in one place. Vertical assembly of the rails does change some of the existing published track building methods.

I am intending eventually to 3D-print some fishplates, to be glued on the rail sides. There will be a tab on the back of each half, to fit between the rail ends, about 10 thou or so thick. The tabs split across diagonally to fit together:

printed_fishplates.png


With the neat square rail ends possible with the loose jaws, and these thin fishplate tabs, it should be possible to create unobtrusive isolation gaps at the rail joints.

But you are well advised not to hold your breath for the above. :) At least from me -- nothing to stop anyone else doing them in CAD and posting the STLs. Anyone?

It may be that we need separate versions for P4 (with full bolt heads), and the rest (with reduced bolt heads to clear wheel flanges). No need to reduce the nuts because they go on the outer side of the rail.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7309
Hi Martin,
Enhancement requests (to be added to the end of your todo list if approved by you)
Colour selection
When we display the box list it displays the optional colour of each background template as in a column just before the templaye ID number:-
1690817031924.png

Some of these colour differences are quite subtle, especially if like me you have chosen a lot!
Would it be possible to display the RGB code of the relevant colour when you click on the [info] button?
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your comments.(y)

I have moved the brick tickbox down from the side, and increased the height of the storage box by 36 pixels -- to make room for a new panel:

box_bricks1.png


The panel at A-A appears if the template selected in the list is a brick template. The panel shows its marker colour, and 3 buttons.

The first button shows the rgb colour in both decimal and hex. Clicking it allows you to change it to any other colour.

The second button changes it to match the active colour showing at B. The third button allows you to change the colour at B to match this colour. By this means you can copy this colour to other templates in two stages.

I hope this covers all likely requirements, because there isn't room for any more. :) Anything else would have to go in the menus.

Will be in the next update 241b.

For interest here is my design view -- as you can see it's well packed:

box_bricks2.png


For templates which are not brick templates, the new panel won't appear -- leaving some blank space which might be used for something else if a need arises.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7311
Hi Steve,

With regards the fishplates, mostly the nuts are on the outside, but in some situations, it's not possible and the nuts have to go on the inside. One situation that this happens is where there's a check rail, because there's not enough room to get the bolts in, without removing the check rail, first.
 
_______________
message ref: 7314
Martin,

Having taken the plunge with 3D printers (although the FDM one is still in its box!), I've been trying to master the basics of Fusion 360. Fishplates sprang to mind as something that could be fun. My first attempt was to use standard BR designs but realised a hybrid would be needed when reading through the forum about the 'model' rail differences. I opted to use the C&L section (as it was the only one I could see with any dimensional detail!) and included thin joining strip, which can act as insulators if required.

I've tried both types as a loose fit but have yet to try glued in place - that's my excuse if they don't fit! Two files attached, one for non-skirted plates (54253) and one for later skirted type (54293). If of interest, the file names refer to the BR catalogue numbers for each type.

Cheers,

Paul
 

Attachments

  • 54253v1.0 v1.stl
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  • 54293.stl
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_______________
message ref: 7319
I like the handle that you have attached. Should make it easy to manipulate the fishplate onto the end of one of the rails, then once glue has hardened, snip it off.
1690999049237.png

Did you print them standing vertically on the handle?
Cheers Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 7321
Steve,!

Many thanks for the positive view!

Yes, I printed them using the handle as the support. As mentioned, the first few iterations were printed directly on the build plate but finished plates seemed to 'lose' the end to first bolt and Chitubox's idea of 'small' supports were huge on the plates!

I hadn't planned to fit with your idea, but it makes sense.

Cheers,

Paul
 
_______________
message ref: 7322
Hi Paul,
I got Templot to output a raft, and then populated it with 16 fishplates:-
1691005058352.png


Although I have not tried to print this, it was just an experiment to check the feasability.
When you say you were missing a bolt, was that the top bolt?
Maybe make the handle a bit shorter?
Unfortunately my Mars 2 Pro is all boxed up whilst we have visitors for a week, so I can't perform an actual print on it for a while.

I have attached the fixed .STL of the plain raft that is imported into chitubox after making a centred array of 16 fishplates.
Steve
 

Attachments

  • plain_raft.stl
    6.7 KB · Views: 19
_______________
message ref: 7323
Steve,

As the design was intended for personal use, I've only used Chitubox to copy a number onto build plate.

Perhaps I wasn't clear with the early iteration failure, the early design was only the fishplate with no tongue or support. In retrospect I think the loss of length (and bolt) was more to do with my learning curve than anything else. Current design will be the one going foward.

IMG20230623194534.jpg


Photo of trial prints.

Cheers,

Paul
 
_______________
message ref: 7324
@Cransford

Hi Paul,

Looking good!

To increase the strength, the middle cross bar could be increased to almost a full rail section without any significant change in the final appearance.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7325
.
This is the jig for filing the back of the switch blades.

As you can see it's just a stretched version of the vee rails jig. It won't take too much more time to print or use too much more material because the stretched section has the clamp opening in it.

This is only for the back of the switch blades. The jigs for the front of the blades will be more complex, and handed left and right.

For left and right of the backs, insert the rail the other way up (as for the vee rails).

switch_jig1.png


It needs a bit of explaining. This is for a simplified model version of undercut switch planing.

This one is for REA "B" switches (and 12ft straight switches). For which the switch deflection angle (toe angle) is 1:32

However the back planing reaches into the rail only as far as the rail web -- i.e. 1" into the rail width of 2.75" (BS-95R). So the actual planing angle on the back of the blade is 1:32 x 2.75 = 1:88

Hence that is the angle this jig is for. The front planing then creates the gauge-face on the rail, to a knife-edge at the toe.

The remainder of the 1:32 deflection is created by the final set put in the blade at the limit of the planing.

It's important not to take too much off the back of the blade, otherwise the tip part will be too flexible, and the blade won't open properly to create a full flange clearance all along it.

In using this jig for 4mm/ft scale, the end of the rail is placed 20mm from the end of the jig. Filing then removes the back of the rail over a distance of 29.3 mm. This distance is marked on the printed track templates.

I haven't put marks or slots on the jig because that might affect creating smooth straight faces on the printer, for filing. I suggest marking the jig with a marker pen if you need the marks while filing. They are not actually needed because you simply file the rail until it is flush with the face of the jig.

The overall length of this jig is 190mm, so printable on most FDM printers. For the next size "C" it might be necessary to make it longer to ensure an adequate grip on the rail.

I haven't yet tried printing it, so the above could still end up in the bin. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7327
@Cransford

Hi Paul,

Looking good!

To increase the strength, the middle cross bar could be increased to almost a full rail section without any significant change in the final appearance.

cheers,

Martin.
Martin,

Thank you too for the positive vote. I did think of a full size cross bar but couldn't get the thought of it looking more like an insulated real world joint out of my mind!

Cheers,

Paul
 
_______________
message ref: 7328
Job done for now.....this will not make it onto the layout, having built the first turnout, confident that I can do a better job second time around but in terms of testing the principle and techniques invaluable. I got a little bit lost around the V but so far smooth transit of the test coaches....

Martin - I absolutely salute your skills......this went together very nicely...sliding chairs are not pushed down just yet as I may want to adjust the switch rails...
 

Attachments

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    top.jpg
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_______________
message ref: 7332
The shorter angles for short diamonds and K-crossings will need a separate design, shorter but similar.

No they won't. Can now do any angle down to 1: 0.5 for short diamond-crossings (which is the shortest angle Templot can handle). This is for 1:1.5

new_jig6.png


I have reduced the overall sizes a bit to save printing time and filament.

The jig thickness can now be set to whatever you want to save print time and filament. Thin jigs down to about 10mm (i.e. 5mm per half) are usable, but thicker jigs up to around 25mm are easier to use with large files and likely to last longer with the wider filing face.

The default thickness is 18mm, i.e. 2 x 9mm. Actually it is 2 x 8.8mm, not 9mm, but the reason for that I will explain when I write about the Cura slicer settings for these jigs. Likewise the 0.88mm dimension showing on the jig, which is the depth of the groove for code 75 rail.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7333
.
There is now an (optional) gizmo on the corner of the crossing rail filing jigs:


knuckle_guide.png


This is a gauging device to check knuckle bends after making them. Slide the rail into the slot, and you can check that the angle, length and radius of the bend are correct for this crossing angle. The rail should lie snugly flush against the gauge.

I will add an option to export this feature separately -- it could be resin-printed as a handy gauge tool.

This is not a bending jig. It is for checking the bend after you have made it. For the bending I shall be doing some 3D bending jigs using sliding metal pins. Eventually. :)

In the meantime, the way to make a symmetrical radiused knuckle bend is:

2_041828_140000000.png


Lots more info about knuckle bends at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/knuckle_radius.php

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7337
I'm resin printing a combination of full chairs and loose jawed bricks with the intention of sliding some rails and dropping in some check rails etc. I'm using a Formlabs resin printer which is giving a slightly tighter chair/rail fit than I would like. can anyone point me in the direction of where I can adjust the chair/rail fit slightly?
 
_______________
message ref: 7339
I'm resin printing a combination of full chairs and loose jawed bricks with the intention of sliding some rails and dropping in some check rails etc. I'm using a Formlabs resin printer which is giving a slightly tighter chair/rail fit than I would like. can anyone point me in the direction of where I can adjust the chair/rail fit slightly?
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Here you go:

dxf_rail_fit.png


That's a percentage adjustment to the rail web thickness setting. Positive changes make an easier fit in the chair. Negative changes make a closer fit in the chair. i.e. +100% would double the rail web thickness used in the calculations.

All chairs will be affected, with solid or loose jaws.

I haven't done much testing of this -- you will likely need some trial and error to see the effect. Try a short template of just one timber and use the preview to look at the chairs. You may also need to check the track gauge afterwards.

Please report your results, which rail section you are using, etc. -- this is still an experiment. I may have mentioned that before. :)

n.b. I suspect it's important not to have the rail a tight fit in the resin chairs, which might cause stress-cracking as the chair ages. They should slide along the rail without any resistance, but without significant play.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7341
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

Having got the fit adjusted for the solid-jaw chairs, you may want to make a further small adjustment to the fit of the loose jaws:

lj_rail_fit.png



That doesn't change the jaw or pin, or the inner jaw on the chair, or the track gauge.

It simply changes the thickness of the key on the loose jaw. A positive dimension increases the key thickness, and so makes a closer fit on the rail. A negative dimension reduces the key thickness and makes an easier fit on the rail.

This dimension is in actual mm, not %, so you would normally enter a very small dimension, probably not much more than 0.05 mm.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7347
.
The knuckle bend gauge tool thingy is probably better printed separately in resin than as an afterthought on the FDM filing jig:

kn_bend_gauge3.png


kn_bend_gauge2.png


kn_bend_gauge1.png

Allows checking the knuckle bend angle and bend radius. Drop the rail into the groove and it should fit snug against the gauge. The lowered section (showing darker blue) marks the limit of the bend radius.

Unlike the version on each half of the the filing jig, the groove is the full rail depth (plus a bit, can be set to whatever you want) for more positive location of the rail (turn the rail over to check the opposite rail).

Overall size is 40mm x 26mm, so should print directly on the build plate without any problems.

Or the STL can be FDM printed if preferred.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7350
.
If anyone is visiting Scalefour Southwest in Wells, Somerset (part of the RailWells exhibition) this weekend:

http://railwells.com/railway-show/railwells-show-2023/

and would like to see plug track in the flesh, my friend Gavin Clark will have a few bits and pieces of plug track with him on his demo stand (RTR conversions).

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 7352
Hi Martin,
is there any chance you could post a STL of the latest filing jig? Fully understand you going to release it with the next Templot update 241b, However your also working on some other additions required for this update.
It's simply I have been very busy pimping my old ender 3, It now has dual Z screws, linear rails for the Y axis, BTL touch probe,
New mother board and touch screen, so its well on its way to having the same spec as the new Elegoo Neptune 3 Filament printer.
As such I am now very keen to print something and was hoping to start with vee rail Jigs.
The STL of the 1in 8.5 is fine, but if its no real trouble 1.10 would be idea.
To be honest I am now even tempted to try some FDM printed timber bricks!
phil,
 
_______________
message ref: 7355
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Here is an STL for 1:10 using these settings:

jig_settings.png


Using the Cura slicer (free) it's important for successful clamping that these two settings are both round multiples of the Layer Height set in the slicer. In this case the STL below is for 0.15 mm layers and code75 bullhead.

For a faster print you could use 0.22mm layers and say 0.88 groove, maybe 9.46 part thickness (when you get 241b). On the Neptune 2, 0.15mm layers produce a noticeably better result.

The rail head width is also important of course to match your rail. In this case however, you can adjust the rail fit using the Horizontal Expansion setting in Cura.

For best results you also need to change the Z Seam Alignment setting so that layers don't start or finish on the groove walls.

p.s. the Code 75 setting on the above dialog is purely for the data label, it plays no part in the jig design.

The STL has been fixed in 3D Builder and is ready for use:

jig_1in10.png


For a successful jig you need to be using Toughened PLA Plus polymer. This works great:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FQ75QG2

cheers,

Martin.
 

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  • filing_jig_for_0p15_layers_1in10_code75_fixed.stl
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Hi Martin,
Thanks for the STL you post has lost me a bit on my Cura (5.4.0) I have layer height options of 0.12 (super quality)
0.16 (dynamic quality) and 0.02 (standard quality) I have been on the internet and read about something called adaptive layers. Is this what I need to set for a layer height of 0.15?
The other thing is I have measured the new rail I have just received from the EMGS and it mics up as 0.89mm wide, so should I use a groove depth of 0.88 or 0.90? Last thing I have PLA + is that the same toughened PLA plus polymer?
Phil,
 
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@Phil G

Sorry Phil, I assumed that if you are into converting an Ender to a Neptune3 you would be well versed in Cura. Do you normally use a different slicer?

The user interface for Cura is a bit of a mystery tour (like Templot :) ), but it's all there in the end:

cura1.png



The first thing to do is click Marketplace top right. Download and install the Settings Guide. Then you can right-click on any of the settings and get a detailed explanation of what each setting does. There are only about 10,000 of them, so you will soon be up to speed.

Now go to Extensions > Settings Guide > Preferences. Untick Show articles in setting tooltips and restart Cura. Otherwise you will need a screen 5 yards wide to prevent the settings guide blocking out everything.

A collection of print settings is called a Profile. Click the down arrow on the current Profile to see all the other options. Click the hamburger (3 lines) and tick All and then Manage Settings Visibility... On that dialog tick Check all.

Now you can see all that is going on in Cura, and not just the dumbed-down selection of options that Cura thinks you would like.

Below I have attached the Profile which I'm using for the filing jigs on my Neptune2S.

Now some breakfast, then I will explain how to import it and use it. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 

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  • neptune2s_filing_jigs_aug2023_cura5p4p0.curaprofile
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Hi Martin,
I do use Cura but to be honest I have never printed anything other than standard settings, So I have never dug too deep into it.(that may explain why I have never been to impressed with FDM printers,)
I will download the setting guide now, So I think that's taken any heat off you doing any further explanation for several breakfasts :)
cheers
Phil
 
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Now some breakfast, then I will explain how to import it and use it. :)
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

The first thing to say is that Cura is very stroppy about associating a profile with a specific printer. This is because the .curaprofile file appears to contain only the differences from the standard settings for a given printer.

When you try to import a profile it will very likely tell you that it's not compatible with your printer. (There must be a way around this -- anyone?)

The solution is to create a custom printer with the default standard settings.

Click the printer list drop-down and click Add printer:


cura4.png



Click Non-UltiMaker printer (unless it is one):

cura5.png



Assuming you don't have a 3D printer networked on your system (in which case you won't be reading this), click the drop-down for Add a non-networked printer. Then scroll down to the Custom option and select Custom FFF printer.

(FFF = Fused Filament Fabrication)

A panel appears in which you can give it a name, whatever you like. Then click Add:


cura9.png




This dialog then appears, in which Cura wants to know about this printer. Copy all this information from your existing printer -- which you can find by going to the Machine Settings dialog for it.

Or change it as you wish. On the Printer tab I set the Y dimension at 220mm instead of 235mm because I'm using a glass bed and need to allow for the clips:


cura11.png



It's very likely that your printer is using the Marlin G-code interpreter. If not I think you would know about it and not be reading this.

You can leave the Printhead Settings unchanged.

Also the Start G-code and End G-code. Later you may want to edit these to get better Z zeroing and backlash adjustment, and I will post some files. But for now the defaults should work ok.

And for the Extruder tab:


cura12.png



Set the nozzle size (very likely 0.4mm) and the filament diameter. This probably needs changing to 1.75mm and is very critical to good results.

Finally click Next.

In fact nothing happens next. :confused:

Click the Preferences > Configure Cura... menu item:


cura13.png



Check that it mentions your new custom printer as the active printer, click Profiles and then Import.

You should then be able to import my downloaded .curaprofile file and get a successful result:


cura14.png



Click OK.

Now over on the right you need to select this profile to be used:


cura15.png



And finally you should see my suggested settings, ready for use:


cura16.png




Open the STL file and slice it in the usual way. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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.
I didn't want to write this, but I think I have to. :(

After a break from them, I've been tinkering with my 3D printers for the last few days. I have reluctantly concluded that what I've been claiming for the last couple of years isn't going to be practical for most users.

I did say that it was an experiment. Possibly I said it more than once. :)

My hope and intention was that the plug track chairs could be a dry press-fit in the sockets. But two factors are now clear:

1. maintaining the required tolerance dimensions on the plug and socket requires constant tweaking of the printer settings and the 3D export settings in Templot. Just changing to a different reel of nominally identical filament, or a different batch of resin, or a different temperature in the workshop, is enough to change the finished dimensions and require a tweak to the settings. Otherwise combined with the rounding effects of the typical printer resolutions, some of the chairs may be loose and liable to fall out, and/or some of them may be so tight that they need a hefty bash fit in the socket, risking damage to the chair and a bumpy ride if they don't seat fully home.

Finding some settings which result in the majority of chairs falling mid-way between these extremes requires constant measuring and adjustments. Some users may be happy to do that, but I'm thinking now that press-fitting is not a workable default option for the majority of users. Some of you may have reached the same conclusion, but didn't like to say so?

2. there is now evidence, at least for FDM timbers, that chairs which were originally a good press-fit will become loose after a few months. This is presumably caused by plastic deformation of the polymer under stress from the press-fitting. I ought to have expected that, but I didn't give it enough thought. As I said, an experiment. It can be avoided by applying some sealant into the underside of the sockets after assembly -- but in that case why not glue them in the first place?

What to do about it? Well the obvious solution is to say that the default option is for the chairs to be glued in place, and that dry press-fitting is an option for those who want it. It may possibly work ok for laser-cut plywood timbers (I'm not sure), or for CNC-milling in MDF (I'm a bit more confident about that) or solid wood (I'm quite confident about that). But since the default timbering option is FDM 3D printing, the default plug fit method obviously needs to correspond with that.

All of which is a bit dispiriting and disappointing. It's been a long road to reach this point, and the idea of dry assembly without the dreadful pong of butanone was the great hope which set me off on this experiment.



So if the chairs are to be glued in, how and with what adhesive? Most common solvents don't work on the resin chairs or the PLA polymer. An important consideration when using the loose jaws is that no surplus adhesive should get into the pin slots. For typical track construction, there may be several days between fitting the chairs in the timbers, and adding the rails and loose jaws. Ample time for any glue in the slots to set solid.

For some time now my preferred sealant has been a tinlet of old-style Humbrol enamel paint from the back of the modelling cupboard. It can be applied cleanly with a cocktail stick, is thin enough to penetrate gaps and cracks, and eventually sets quite solid. But eventually is the operative word. I doubt the modern acrylic paints would work in quite the same way. But they might do.

Enamel paint is obviously no good as an assembly adhesive, if you have to wait a fortnight for it to set. So I've been looking for something similar that might set a bit faster, but not so fast that it adds unwanted stress to the assembly process.

I've seen white typing correction fluid mentioned as a model-making aid for filling gaps. (It came up again recently on the Scalefour forum.) I had assumed that it had disappeared from use -- and so it has for office use, obviously. But it seems that it is still used in schools, so I had a look in the local pound shop and found this:

tallon_fluid.png


Doing some googling it seems that there are two versions of this. One is traditional solvent based and dries very quickly -- which means it would be of little use as an open adhesive. But it seems to have been replaced with this water-based solvent-free version, which being water-based takes a short while to dry -- and longer on non-absorbent surfaces.

So I've tried some, and it looks promising. After about an hour chairs which were loosely pressed into place are quite firm, and next day are firmer still -- they can be pushed out from below with sufficient brute force, but amply solid enough for our purpose.

The integral brush in the cap is just a bit large to fit easily in a socket (4mm scale), but it could be trimmed to a finer point. Or a fine paint brush used instead. The fluid can be brushed around the insides of the socket before the chair is pushed into place. The important point is that it is a liquid, not a sticky glue, with the result that it doesn't get into the loose jaw slots, or at least it hasn't done on any of the chairs I've tried.

A final point -- if you apply a bit too much so that it strays onto the timber surface, just wipe it along the timber. It then dries very quickly to a streaky effect with just a hint of texture -- perfect to represent sawmill marks on the timber surface (not actual wood grain, that's daft). So it might have a track-building use even if not successful as an adhesive/sealant. :)

The water-based version has a distinctive smell, but not unpleasant. Of course, for all I know it may be just some ordinary white paint!

If you want to try it, make sure it is the water-based solvent-free version and not old stock of traditional correction fluid. I think that will dry too fast to be usable.

Also, ideally for gluing it needs changes to the default socket sizes to create an equal clearance all round the plug. At present there is a clearance along the sides of the plug and an interference fit at the ends. I see yet more tick boxes.

Other suggestions for a suitable glue for chair fixing welcome. Preferably inexpensive and not messy to use. Where is Seccotine fish glue when you want it? :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin,

Not sure that this problem is as serious as you think. I find that there is variability in the fit but most of the time my chairs fit in with a nice engineered fit. I do apply a blob of super glue if I am worried but I was planning to glue my track to the baseboard with some sort of silcon glue that will squeeze into the bottom of the plugs. That should hold the whole lot in place for many years to come.

Super glue seems to work fine on resin to FLP but not so great on resin to N/S rail.

There appears to be so many advantages to your system verses other systems that the odd drop of super glue is not going to be a problem..at least not for me.
 
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@Michael Woods

Thanks Michael.

Are you using loose jaws or solid? If loose, have you found that when using superglue it strays into the slots from below?

How long have your first chairs been in place? Have you noticed them getting loose after a few months?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin all my work so far including the 80cm point i build have been with solid jaws. It was tricky holding the whole lot together why I slid in the rails and then dropped into the sleepers but it worked.

I have only been at this at this a few months - all seems fine....absolutely no doubts that this is the system I am going to use for the new layout when the baseboards finally arrive.

I am planning to build a loose jaw point next but taking time out of track making to finish a loco.
 
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