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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Experimental Plug Track: 3D-printed, CNC-milled, laser-cut

Quick reply >
Would it be possible to produce a laser cutting file (I assume that would be .DXF) for a trackbed layer complete with sockets?
This could be laser cut in cork or 2mm greyboard.
Then lasercut the sleepers in 1.5mm ply or 1.6mm basswood, complete with sockets.
Produce resin 3D printed chairs with longer plugs, or some temporary alignment plugs(ABS say).
Stick down your trackbed.
Stick the sleepers onto trackbed using the temporary alignment pegs (or the the chairs with longer pegs)
Remove temporary plugs
Thread rail onto chairs, then plug the chairs into the sockets.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your ideas. (y)

Most of that is already possible in the current version 228a -- but so far for plain track only. (I haven't yet done the special chairs for pointwork, and the socket sizes will vary.)

At present you can't have the sockets without the timber outlines for the trackbed, but I will fix that. For the DXF file most of the features are in their own layer, so if importing into a CAD program it's easy to switch layers on and off to get whatever you want for the laser cutter.

The plug depth on the chairs is already an option setting, and you can switch off the chair jaws to print some socket locators, like this:

socket_locators.png

Ideally they need to be a fraction smaller than the press-fit chair plugs, which is also doable now, but I will add some specific options to make it simple.

To make it easier to locate timbers on the trackbed it would be better to have the plugs only, without any tops, and with an upper taper, so that the timbers can be dropped over them. So I will add that option too.

I want to add whatever options anyone wants to create a flexible system for whatever equipment they have access to. But it means a formidable array of tickboxes on the export dialog. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2283
Hi Martin,
Thanks for the amazingly quick response and for the info supplied.
I have used the 2D export, timbers only to get a .DXF file.
I am hoping to get a 3rd party laser cutting service to produce some trial pieces in 1.5mm ply and 1.6mm basswood.
As I don't have a CAD package, I have opened the .DXF file in Inkscape, and can see that it is compsed of many layers.
First tried "importing" to Inkscape, but only got one layer, then tried just "opening" it with Inkscape and got all the layers:-

1628769552591.png


I can see that in this case the two relevant (populated) layers are TIMBOUTL and TIMBER3D.
If I hide TIMBER3D I get:-

1628769670011.png


Both the timbers and the sockets are made up of 4 discrete lines rather than a rectangle, but this might just be the way Inkscape has interpreted the .DXF.
I am assuming that for laser cutting will not need the "sprues" (layer TIMBER3D)

Anyway I will make an enquiry at a CO2 laser cutting service & see what they say.

Steve
 
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message ref: 2284
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

To remove the extended outlines, untick this option and then rebuild the templates. Then export the DXF again:

no_outline_extensions.png


p.s. there will be more options in 228b. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2285
@Steve_Cornford

p.s. Steve,

You wanted the trackbed edges in the DXF?

trackbed_edges_dxf.png


modify group to match to update the background templates.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2287
Thank you Martin, here is the result, but I expect you knew that already!

1628775221424.png


I wonder if you need tags for laser printing like phot-etching.
Close-up of a socket:-

1628775363333.png


Also I have been thinking about grain orientation when using ply or basswood. Easy for plain track to get it longitudinally, but for curved pointwork presumably one would need to unbundle the timbers, then align them parallel to the grain direction before cutting.

But I am jumping ahead, and instead will concentrate on plain track first.
Steve
 
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message ref: 2288
Hi Martin,
Feedback from the lasercutting service I have been talking to:-
They recommend cutting the sockets first then the timbers, in particular this service cuts blue lines first, then green, so it would be really useful as you suggested to have a SOCKOUTL layer as well as a TIMBOUTL layer, with colour choice.

They need a line thickness of 0.076 mm (hairline in their words), but the laser burns a 0.2mm line, so to attempt to get correct size objects I am adding 0.2mm to outline(timbers) cuts and subtracting 0.2mm from inside cuts(sockets.

For timber outlines I have done this by using the real > timbering > timbering data option, and have added 0.6 inches to timber sizes, in OO-SF this gives:-
1629306979426.png


For sockets I have done this by using the [chair/socket fit..] button on the Export DFX/STL panel:-
1629307526976.png

ps, the chair plug clearance option is ignored for 2D exports as yoo explain in the [info] button.
By setting the socket side clearance to -0.25mm I should get a drawn socket 2mm - 2* 0.25mm = 1.5mm, and then half the kerf of the laser should enlarge this by 0.1mm all round. Well thats the theory.

*note to self, press the [rebuild background templates] button before the [export DFX/STL file] button!

Steve
 

Attachments

  • 1629306414429.png
    1629306414429.png
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message ref: 2349
so it would be really useful as you suggested to have a SOCKOUTL layer as well as a TIMBOUTL layer, with colour choice.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

That's great, I will get on with adding that and several other layers and colour choices for the new stuff. I've been concentrating on the 3-D output recently and haven't really paid much attention to 2-D. It's hardly changed in 20 years.

I will also add some separate adjustment for 2-D laser line thickness in addition to the socket/plug tolerances, now that I know about that. For some time folks have been having timbering laser-cut from Templot's DXFs, but this is the first time anyone has mentioned to me that they are coming out undersize because of the laser kerf.

Also since it's likely you would have the timbering done before making the chairs, I will make the tweak adjustment on the plug size more flexible to use.

p.s. when entering data for the timbering (or anything else), if you prefix the figure with a letter S you can enter the scaled model size in mm instead of the prototype size in inches (if that is what Templot is asking for), instead of having to do the calculation yourself. But make sure you have set your model scale first.

Many thanks for the post. It's great to get such detailed technical feedback. (y)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2350
Maybe the "folks" are right and I have made adjustments for no reason, other than my understanding of the discussion that I have had with the laser cutting service. So far all theory, the "proof will be in the pudding"!

I wonder what dimensions Ralph uses in his Coreldraw design for the P4 sleepers?

I have output a design including plain, B7 straight turnout and a B7 curved turnout with a minmum radius of 30.0" as a test. I know turnout sockets are still WIP, but thought it worth testing the viability of laser cutting the sockets that are angled in relation to the timbers, to check if there is burn through between the socket corners and the timber edges.

Having output the .DFX file, I then opened it in Inkscape, added a new layer named SOCKOUTL and moved the sockets from TIMBOUTL to the new layer. Then changed the socket colour to blue. I then set all the cut outlines to 0.076mm as requested by cutting service.
The plan is to get a TRACKBED sheet cut with just the sockets, and a JIG sheet cut with both sleepers/timbers and sockets.
Once cut I will measure the timbers and sockets, and adjust the pudding recipe if needed.
I have attached DXF file.

Should there be a "copyright" text legend output in the DXF as you do when printing the templates, or is it just suffiient for me to state that in the email when sending the .DXF file to the cutting service?

Thanks for the S for scale tip.
 

Attachments

  • OO-SF-trial-jig.dxf
    2.1 MB · Views: 146
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message ref: 2355
I would be careful changing Templot specifically to suit one laser bureau and one type of laser cutter. I have used 3 different types of laser cutter over the years and the software used for driving the cutter works differently in each case. The width of the laser beam can be dependant upon the type of laser used - there are different types that can cut using different technology. I am using a diode laser on my Darkly Labs machine and the thickness of the line on the drawing is really immaterial since the beam always cuts through the same width regardless of the drawing - my beam is also 0.2mm but that depends upon the material being cut and the thickness of the material.

When deciding the size of the sleeper for my example I didn't actually use the Templot output. I did say I worked differently and my need was for plain sleepers in card, a material far more suited to my cutter than anything else. Personally I see no advantage in having timbers cut in plywood which is much harder to cut so I have settled on card sleepers shellacked with easily available sanding sealer, shellac, button polish or whatever is available. I buy it in litre containers and dunk the sleepers in it and fish them out to dry giving a stable end result which is perfectly capable of serving the purpose of holding a chair plug.

The laser cutting software I am using now is called Lightburn and in my opinion is the Rolls Royce of the products I have used. It allows the cutting colour order to be changed however you want so you can control how you personally want the order of the cuts to be made. Also you can change the position of the cutting lines to reflect the kerf (width) of the laser so if you want precise sizes output you can make the laser cut to a dimension plus n or minus n where n is a value you set yourself. This allows extremely precise cutting according to your machine which is very important as they do vary as I said earlier and you can end up with perfectly fitting parts.

When preparing my test piece after having roughly worked out how much boundary was needed around the socket size on the sleeper to give a suitably strong socket I then changed the 3D parameters on the Templot chair plug size and printed some chairs on my Anycubic Photon. I then measured this plug size and drew a timber in Coreldraw with a socket I thought corresponded to the size the printer had produced. Using the chair plug size as a fixed value I then adjusted to size of the socket in Coreldraw until I got a perfect match that worked using the machines and materials I was using. This is the important bit because that may be different for other scenarios. Once an accurate timber was produced it was easy in Coreldraw to produce a row of exact size sleepers in a row with no gaps, a quicker job than cutting gaps. Using a spacing jig then makes gluing all this down much easier and leaves no tabs between sleepers.

I don't know how accurate or easy it would be to do it the other way round, that is cut the sleepers and then make the 3D printed chairs fit the socket but it might work easier - I haven't tried it. Different 3D printers and resins might generate different size plugs too even though the parameter settings in Templot are the same, I don't know, I only have one 3D printer capable of creating chairs although I do have a PLA printer which just gathers dust nowadays.

I hope this helps people understand how this process works. There are a few variables here which need to be understood to achieve the result I have been able to show.

Ralph
(edited to correct typo)
 
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message ref: 2356
I would be careful changing Templot specifically to suit one laser bureau and one type of laser cutter.
@ralphrobertson

Hi Ralph,

There's no way I would do that. Like much else in Templot everything will be an option. There will be clearance options and adjustment settings available, but they will all default to zero and have no effect unless and until you change them.

Furthermore, at present the entire 3D stuff is experimental, and it could stay that way for years. Anything might change in any program update. I do want to emphasize that.

But unless this option is set on the control template, the working of Templot will be just the same as before:

3d_screen.png


And when it is set the screen response is likely to be much slower -- look at all the extra detail to be drawn. So for most of the time when track planning you will want to have that option turned off.

Also, I haven't yet decided how much of this detail to include in the output for construction templates -- so far none of it is. That's because for a long time to come, most of the chairing will be wrong. Getting to a situation where you can do, say, make tandem, and all the right chairs are in the right place for your chosen prototype is a dream for the future. Just getting to where 3D Plug Track is doable for a single turnout is going to be a major task, and then only for REA chairing. GWR chairs will have to come later. Not to mention all the pre-group designs. Or FB.

Unless of course a whole bunch of coders want to jump into the T3 project to help out?

In the meantime I must get 228b out soon, because I forgot to fix the straight-over-straight bug in make diamond-crossing which crept into 227a.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2359
Just getting to where 3D Plug Track is doable for a single turnout is going to be a major task, and then only for REA chairing. GWR chairs will have to come later. Not to mention all the pre-group designs. Or FB.

Unless of course a whole bunch of coders want to jump into the T3 project to help out?

Hi Martin,

I passed a whole bunch of coders on the road today. I waved at them but they seemed a wee bit surly :giggle:

I've no idea what your code looks like (and I'd rather not know :)) but would it make any sense to construct the crossing chairs as the summation of a few bits? The difference in jaw angles over a large range of crossing angles is really very small. Could you construct most of the crossing chairs "on the fly" by adding standard jaws (rotated to align with the rails) and base-plates of appropriate length?

Cheers,
Andy
 
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message ref: 2366
I've no idea what your code looks like (and I'd rather not know :))
@AndyB

Hi Andy,

It's all open-source. See: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/t1-files.192/

dxf_unit.pas is at: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/t1-files.192/post-1739

(as it was then -- I've made many changes since)

See also: https://sourceforge.net/projects/opentemplot/

but would it make any sense to construct the crossing chairs as the summation of a few bits?

That is how they are being constructed. The tricky part is the placing on the timbers (bearing in mind that timbers can be shoved to new positions, but the chairs can't). Some chairs can move along the rails in the process, changing angle for the rail as they go (S1, L1, P slide chairs, check chairs), but switch and crossing chairs can't be moved. Some may have to swap from S1 to L1 as the timber is shoved along.

And then do it all again when swapping from square-on to equalized timbering style.

Some of it is working now -- try shoving some turnout timbers and watch the chairs re-position and swap to/from S1 to L1 (bases and keys only for L1 so far) at the switch heel. Note that crab shoves are not included (and won't be, the complexity goes through the roof if I try that). But nothing has so far been done to allow individual chairs positions to be tweaked on a timber. In fact I don't even have a name yet for that process ("heaving" chairs?).

p.s. switch block chairs are currently moving too, not yet fixed.

3d_chair_swap1.png


3d_chair_swap2.png


What fun! :) A long way still to go.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2367
Todays Socket Fun
I have made a crossover and used the shove timbers function to extend 2 timbers, X6-C and X7-D.
Note that these timbers do not have chairs where they intersect the background template rails.
1629742921539.png

I then stored this template in the background, and made the lower template the control.
I then used shove timbers to increase the width of sleepers E2 and E3 to 4", and shoved them along until they overlaid the two extended timbers.
1629745148315.png

We now have chairs & more importantly sockets in the right place over the extended timbers.
If I now save to the background & then invoke the Export to DXF, 2D function but opt for timbers only (with sockets.
The resultant file will have the sockets needed, but it will have a superflous sleeper outlinbe that I can delete by opening the .DXF file in Inkscape and deleting the 4 lines that make up the widened sleepers.
Before:-
1629746225449.png

After deleting sleepers E2 and E3
1629746425486.png

I changed the sockets to blue to highlight the extra sockets that are now positiond on the extended timbers.

This is a work around, but no doubt Martin will design a much better way when Heave chairs is born!

I am trying to learn something new in Templot each day in order to re-inforce what I have learnt so far.
It is quite addictive
Steve
 
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message ref: 2405
This is a work around, but no doubt Martin will design a much better way when Heave chairs is born!
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Many thanks for the feedback. :)

Instead of removing the timbers from the DXF, try shoving their length to zero. They will then be in the BOX file and not need removing from the exports every time. More about all this:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3307.php#p25295

If you look at the date on that, you will see why I keep warning folks not to hold their breath. :) (At that stage I was still trying to do it all by FDM printing, and hadn't invented the idea of Plug Track. None of that was in the released program updates.)

p.s. package arrived, many thanks, looks very good. Haven't had a chance today to look at it properly yet.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2406
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I have now had a chance to look closely at the laser-cut parts you sent me. Many thanks for those. They do look good with clean accurate cuts and dimensions. I'm tempted to make some matching chairs and start track building. :)

Your idea of using socket slots in the trackbed to align separate timbers is also inspired -- but it surely adds a lot to the cost? I'm wondering if cork was used for the trackbed it would be possible to cut the socket slots on the Silhouette cutter. With the advantage that it can be any length. The "kraft" blade is claimed to cut up to 3mm in "soft" materials, in addition to cheese slices. Cutting only the sockets rather than the timber outlines at the same time is obviously a much easier task. If it works it might be a way of using resin-printed timbers without needing to create a timbering brick to align them.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2435
Hi Martin,
Apologies if I have missed something on this thread - I have to confess to not really paying attention to all the posts but is there a major reason to have holes in the sleepers rather than using the Exactoscale "NewTrack" method ( circa 2004 ) method of round dimples on the sleepers and a matching recess in the base of the chairs ? Would it not make the sleepers/timbers stronger.....and the alignment of the chairs would be set by the rail to chair jaw interface.

Rob
 
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message ref: 2436
Apologies if I have missed something on this topic - I have to confess to not really paying attention to all the posts but is there a major reason to have holes in the sleepers rather than using the Exactoscale "NewTrack" method ( circa 2004 ) method of round dimples on the sleepers and a matching recess in the base of the chairs ? Would it not make the sleepers/timbers stronger.....and the alignment of the chairs would be set by the rail to chair jaw interface.
@Guinea_Pig_Tester

Hi Rob,

I tried that 3 years ago, see:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3307.php#p26312


2_091641_110000000.png


Of course with "exactopips" on the timbers we don't need to make our own chairs and can use the Exactoscale chairs. In the Exactoscale system the chairs have an easy clearance on the pips, it is intended to use gauges in the usual way for assembly.

The downside is that you are restricted to the chair prototypes provided by Exactoscale and their continuing availability. But the main reason I threw them out of the window is because the rail is canted in the chairs (an utter no-no in my book below about Gauge 1) and the extremely poor fit on the currently available rail sections -- see various topics on the Scalefour forum.

If you then decide to make your own chairs for the exactopips system, you have the difficulty of supporting them with a flat base for printing, and without the plug base in 4mm scale they are much more fragile and difficult to handle. The plug base solves all that. Also of finding a suitable adhesive -- ideally the Plug Track chairs are a press fit and any adhesive is only a backup.

But no doubt I will add an option to add exactopips to the DXF export -- I want to add all possible options that anyone might want.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2437
Having produced a straight B7 and a curved B7 turnout in templot, I exported to 2D .DXF file, opend the resultant file in Inkscape, then grouped all the components of timber 1.X9(straight turnout) together as one object, changed stroke to black ink, 0.076mm wide, then took a copy and overlayed the copy onto the green timber 2.x9 of the curved (2400mm radius) turnout.
1630101759042.png

This was in order to check the corelation of the sockets, and whether it will be practical to just produce "standard" laser cut sheets of straight turnouts of a given size/angle (advantage being all timbers can have grain alighned with long edge of timbers) and use these to assemble curved turnouts.
1630101856470.png

1630102281055.png

1630102327294.png

The corelation is pretty good in my opinion, at least for a B7 curved to 2400mm.
The laser cutting service recomended closing up or perhaps concatenating is a better description of the timbers for a most economical cut. Cost is dependent on sum of the lengths of all cut lines, so by sharing timber outlines we can reduce the total cost, see their .pdf attached example.
So could have a "bespoke" trackbed layer cut in cork just with sockets to suit the track layout.
Then for the sleeper/timber layer cut in ply, use some standard "plain" sleeper sheets, and standard straight turnout sheets. Then just produce a "bespoke" extended timber sheet of ply for all the non-standard timbers relationg to the track layout.

If you have time to print some S1 chairs with longer narrower pegs to try them out that would be great.
Steve



Steve
 

Attachments

  • Timber-cutting-comparison.PDF
    95.1 KB · Views: 183
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message ref: 2440
Hi Martin,
Apologies if I have missed something on this thread - I have to confess to not really paying attention to all the posts but is there a major reason to have holes in the sleepers rather than using the Exactoscale "NewTrack" method ( circa 2004 ) method of round dimples on the sleepers and a matching recess in the base of the chairs ? Would it not make the sleepers/timbers stronger.....and the alignment of the chairs would be set by the rail to chair jaw interface.

Rob

I had a similar thought. Why not just put circular holes in the sleepers to accept a cylindrical pip on the bottom of the chair and let the rail align the direction of the chair?

I'm pretty sure Martin will have considered this and abandoned it for several good reasons :)

(Crossing chairs would probably need two pips)

Andy

(Personally I think it would be a much better idea to print timbers, chairs and rails all at the same time and simply stick a conductive cap on the rails but I'm a well-known heretic :))
 
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message ref: 2441
The correlation is pretty good in my opinion, at least for a B7 curved to 2400mm.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Yes, a timber in a curved template is identical to the same timber in a straight turnout. That is how Templot draws curved templates.

I already have a function to bunch template timbers together side-by-side. I haven't had any use for it since the 1990s when I was experimenting CNC milling timbers from copper-clad laminate sheets. It will be commented out in one of the earlier files -- I just need to find it again, or re-write it. It is needed to allow a set of template timbers to be resin-printed on the small build plate. If you set the timber separation to zero the outlines would coincide, but it needs some careful thought on setting the cutter kerf width.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2445
I had a similar thought. Why not just put circular holes in the sleepers to accept a cylindrical pip on the bottom of the chair and let the rail align the direction of the chair?
I'm pretty sure Martin will have considered this and abandoned it for several good reasons :)
(Crossing chairs would probably need two pips)
@AndyB

Hi Andy,

I've been asked this several times, but no-one has explained what benefit accrues by discarding information which Templot already knows (the angle of the chair on the timber) and leaving it to be determined by the rail? And if you then say two pips that argument is destroyed anyway.

The intention is that the plug chairs are a firm press fit in the sockets, in most cases not requiring any adhesive, and setting the gauge in the process. Once pressed home it wouldn't be possible for the rail to rotate the chair into alignment. So with a cylindrical plug you would be relying on the chair being aligned by means of the ungauged loose rail before pressing it home. The chances of getting some misaligned chairs strikes me as very high.

Having a rectangular plug makes it much easier to adjust the tolerances for a good press fit. In comparison two cylindrical plugs would be very difficult to tolerance.

As far as I can see the only advantage to a cylindrical plug is that you could drill the holes in home-made timbers. But because they also set the gauge, it would be necessary to do the drilling on a CNC miller or jig borer for sufficient accuracy.

The edge of the chair base is very thin and fragile, so adding a rectangular plug provides support as close the the edge as possible.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2446
They recommend cutting the sockets first then the timbers, in particular this service cuts blue lines first, then green, so it would be really useful as you suggested to have a SOCKOUTL layer as well as a TIMBOUTL layer, with colour choice.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I have added 6 new layers for the 2-D DXF so that colours can be changed or elements omitted:

dxf_dialog_228x.png


Also a 3-D option to create tall headless locator plugs for the trackbed. These are a looser fit in the timbers so that the timbers can be dropped over them, and then removed. Presumably you would make the sockets in the trackbed a fraction smaller so they are a firmish fit in the trackbed.

As you can see the dialog is getting too large and crowded. :( I need to move stuff to a set of separate tabs.

Does anyone want the template > symbols... included in the 2-D DXF? It might be useful to have pre-drilled holes in the trackbed below the rails for the dropper wires and/or the dropper ID text marked?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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With several additional combo drop-downs the list has got a lot longer.

To make setting the colours a bit easier I have added some buttons below the list to use as a precursor to making the required settings:

combo_colours.png


I have changed the omit layer option from "none" to blank, to make it more obvious in the list.

Note that the radial centres option always defaults to omit. Otherwise the fit extents function in CAD programs will zoom out to include all the radial centres, potentially making the actual track plan a tiny smudge on the screen. If the radial centres are needed in the file, they must be explicitly turned on.

This stuff has remained virtually unchanged for over 20 years, it feels strange to be returning to it now and making changes. :)

No doubt if I was starting from scratch I would do things very differently.

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2469
20 years!
How many boiled eggs?

Plug Track
Chairs are produced as separate components from the timbers.
You have illlustrated how to produce a "raft" of S1 chairs by manipulating sleeper spacing and gauge and adding a background shape.
By "raft" I mean the small group of chairs that are able to fit as a module onto your build plate, that you then "cloned" 5 times

How about adding this as a separate function so that one could produce a raft of one particular chair type or a "set" of related chairs.
For Example
S1 chairs
L1 Chairs
Set of Check Rail Chairs (CCL,CC,CCR)
Slide chairs / Switch chairs
1:5 Crossing Chairs.
1:6 Crossing Chairs
etc
A bit like the plastic sprues we are used to at the moment

But as usual I expect your are 2 steps ahead of me already

Steve
 
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message ref: 2470
How many boiled eggs?

How about adding this as a separate function so that one could produce a raft of one particular chair type or a "set" of related chairs.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

You can do most of that now. Here's a raft of mostly L1 bridge chairs -- or it would be when I get the L1 chairs finished:

bridge_chair_bunching1.png


which could be cloned on the printer (with timbers omitted of course).

That's part of an E-16 template in EM with the gauge reduced to 10mm, and the timber fill spacing changed to 14":

bridge_chair_bunching2.png


Blank off and shorten the template in the usual way to get what you want.

In the same way you could get rafts of other special chairs.

I intend to do everything you are asking for -- but not just yet. I sense that you are getting impatient for the special chairs? :)

Me too, but I dare not leave off the timbering bricks and DXF interface until I have got all I want to do done. At present there are dozens of loose ends and if I leave off now I shall be in the same boat I was in with 227a -- powerless to release an update because I had left unfinished and forgotten about too many loose ends. It took 4 program updates to sort all that out, and there is still the silly diamond-crossing mistake not yet fixed.

As soon as I can FDM print a defined timbering brick from within a track plan, with all the on-off options working, I will have somewhere to put the special chairs and will be able to test them as I create them.

p.s. boiled eggs total = +1 half an hour ago. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2471
Hi Martin,
No not impatient, just excited! :):D

As a retired programmer (54 years of coding behind me) I really appreciate the lifetime of effort you have put into Templot, and the way you are evolving the software to take advantage of modern technology.

The chips from the lasercut plywood sockets are strangely reminiscent of the "chads" from punched cards that I remember from my early days of 1900 PLAN programming!

Thanks for the E-16 EM illustration.

Steve
 
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message ref: 2472
Posting this now in case I forget to mention it later.

There was some confusion between the tickboxes for 3-D DXF layer options, and the previous method of setting the DXF colour to "none" to omit 2-D layers.

To avoid re-writing all the 2-D stuff, I have removed the duplicated tickboxes and reverted to the drop-down method for all except stuff which can only be in 3-D files (chair jaws, keys, etc.).

To make it easier to omit a layer with a single click, you can now do that by right-clicking on the drop-down combo.

I've added a note at the top of the dialog, and to the mouse-hover hint:

dxf_right_click.png


Omitted layers now show with the colour showing blank, to make it more obvious in the column.

The layers and colours have no meaning in STL files, but elements are omitted from the file by the same means. Set any colour to include an element.

Martin.
 
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@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Two more layers for the 2-D DXF: :)

kerf_layers.png


These modify the outlines to allow for the kerf width of the laser cutter (or any other cutter), i.e. outside the finished timber outline, inside the finished socket size. Also the timber extension marks are ignored, so don't need to be rebuilt in the generator.

It's intended that you would switch one or other layer off for any given file, but can have both outlines in the file if you wish (and is the default).

I didn't want to do this with a zero-able offset, so that both outlines can be on by default, as a reminder of the setting option. You wrote:
the laser burns a 0.2mm line
so I have set this as the default, i.e. 0.1mm offset (independent of model scale).

n.b. This is not intended to be used for socket tolerancing (otherwise the timber outline size might be wrong). After setting the kerf width to give the required timber size, adjust the plug/socket fit using the settings on the chair/socket fit... button.

The kerf layers are ignored in 3-D files.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2477
How far to go on detail when it is hard to see with the naked eye? If I can successfully print it I will have a go at modelling it.
@timbersgalore

Hi Timbers,

Are you referring to my note about the nuts on GWR chair bolts?

That was partly in jest, at least for 4mm scale.

But -- the bolts are 1" diameter and might typically protrude above the tightened nuts by say 1/2". That scales to 0.17mm in 4mm/ft scale.

Your Phrozen 4K printer claims a resolution of 0.035mm, so that would correspond to 5 layers in your sliced model. Even on my Elegoo printer with 0.05mm resolution it would be 3 or 4 layers. So it should be doable.

However I will let you off modelling the bolt thread. :)

In 7mm scale and above it would definitely be doable, so I must include it in the Templot export. The nuts will be generated at a random angle, and 1/2" of bolt will optionally protrude above them on the GWR S1 chairs.

You may have noticed that the screw-heads on the REA S1 and L1 chairs are also generated at a random angle:

random_screw_heads.png

(L1 chairs unfinished)

Notice how much more prominent the REA chair fixings are, compared to GWR.

GWR L1 bridge chairs have only 2 screws on diagonally opposed corners (right-hand side when looking towards the rail). Here's 4 of them:

gwr_bridge_chairs.jpg


They always look as if they have a screw missing!

Not used on plain sleepers, so they are always screws not bolts. Having written the dreaded word "always" I now have to leave some space for someone to post a photo showing GWR L1 chairs fixed with through-bolts. :)






cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2487
That may be due to the wrong fishplates, there are rails drilled to 4 1/2 inch centres and rails drilled to 5 inch centres, there are fishplates for both, but if there's a mismatch then only the 2 centre bolts fit. More commonly is one rail has been replaced and you end up with 3 bolts.
 
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message ref: 2490
I print some chairs from the templot files. I first had to fix and unsupported island formed at the bottom of the rail clip.
@timbersgalore

Hi Timbers,

Looking good. :)

Can you clarify which part you mean by the rail clip?

s1_inner_detail.png


In Templot terminology, the part of the inner jaw shown green is called the "stand". As far as possible allowing for model wheel flanges it follows prototype dimensions.

The part coloured blue is called the "grip" and has to match the model rail section, with no regard to the prototype.

I'm aware of a bug in the area circled, and it's on my list to be fixed.

Looking at your print, you seem to have lost the angled fillet between the jaw and the rail seat:

edit: see later posts.

s1_inner_fillet1.jpg


This what Templot generates in that area:
s1_inner_fillet2.png

which is also in the generated STL:
s1_inner_fillet3.png


So it's a bit of a mystery where it has gone, or appears to have gone, in your print? Maybe it is an optical illusion.

I'm aware that those side fillets on the jaws are a poor representation of the radiused fillets on the prototype, and they are also on my list to do something about. When I did the design originally I was thinking in terms of FDM printing. The resin printers can create higher resolution results, so need rather more work on the design.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2496
That may be due to the wrong fishplates, there are rails drilled to 4 1/2 inch centres and rails drilled to 5 inch centres, there are fishplates for both, but if there's a mismatch then only the 2 centre bolts fit. More commonly is one rail has been replaced and you end up with 3 bolts.
@Phil O

Hi Phil,

Fishplates with bolt holes at 5" centres are intended for flat-bottom rail. Do they fit ok on bullhead? They are 20" long (as opposed to 18" for bullhead) so wouldn't easily fit between the chairs at a bullhead rail joint. Flat-bottom rail fixings do not obstruct the fishplates to the same extent, and the fishplates can be longer. If an 18" fishplate is drilled at 5" centres, the end holes would be very close to the end of the fishplate.

We need the full info on this because Plug Track will need it's own 3D printed fishplates. The standard H-section locking fishplates from the trade won't work because the rail needs to slide into them. Whereas Plug Track rails are pressed home vertically. The fishplates will need to be attached to the side of the rail rather than inserted from the end. The insulator lug on the back of the fishplate will occupy only half the rail height (and can be cut off where the fishplate is on a dummy joint).

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 2497
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