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  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Ffestiniog signalling query

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Paul Boyd

Member
Location
Loughborough, UK
Hi all

The attached photo was taken by myself in July 1998 and shows the down starter at Tan-y-Bwlch on the Ffestiniog Railway. The up starter is the same, except there's no catch (trap?) point. The question is, what is the "junction" feather used for, as there is no facing junction! The Stop sign faces the up line, not the down. The FR uses right-hand running, by the way, not left-hand.

Any ideas, anyone?

Cheers,
Paul
 

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Hi Paul,

This is purely conjecture, but if the turnout at the other end of the loop is set normal for the right hand road, then the signal would protect the catch (trap) and also prevent a run through of the trailing turnout. The catch points would also derail any run aways from further up. The turnouts look to be motor worked. No other ideas currently. Do we have any members who volunteer on FR, who may know or can find out?
 
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Hi Paul,

This is purely conjecture, but if the turnout at the other end of the loop is set normal for the right hand road, then the signal would protect the catch (trap) and also prevent a run through of the trailing turnout. The catch points would also derail any run aways from further up. The turnouts look to be motor worked. No other ideas currently. Do we have any members who volunteer on FR, who may know or can find out?
Hi Phil

Thanks for your reply. I wasn’t clear in my post, it was really the junction feather I was asking about (and I’ve now edited my post). The 2-aspect head is a platform starter which would presumably protect the catch and a trailing turnout without the feather, wouldn’t it? I did wonder if the feather was to indicate the direction of the trailing turnout or the catch, but why?

Cheers,
Paul
 
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Hi Paul,

Are you sure it's a junction feather? It seems more likely a Calling On, Shunt Ahead, or similar. Allowing the turnout to be used for running round, while the section ahead is blocked (at a level crossing?).

The catch road is odd. It's more usual for the stock rail to stop short of the turnout rail. Is there limited clearance on the right?

This is apparently lever number 250. Does the FR really have 250 levers?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Are you sure it's a junction feather? It seems more likely a Calling On, Shunt Ahead, or similar. Allowing the turnout to be used for running round, while the section ahead is blocked (at a level crossing?).

The catch road is odd. It's more usual for the stock rail to stop short of the turnout rail. Is there limited clearance on the right?

This is apparently lever number 250. Does the FR really have 250 levers?
Hi Martin

Ah, that makes a lot of sense, especially in the absence of any other means of signalling that move as seen in this photo looking the other way, as well as the limited clearance to the right of the first photo!

As to 250 levers, somehow I doubt it, but the FR always did their own thing!

Cheers,
Paul

(A complete aside, I started this reply on my iPad in Safari, then decided to move to my PC so just closed Safari without saving anything as I hadn't got far. When I opened this thread on my PC in Edge, my already started message was here ready to just carry straight on - how did that happen?!?!?)
 

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(A complete aside, I started this reply on my iPad in Safari, then decided to move to my PC so just closed Safari without saving anything as I hadn't got far. When I opened this thread on my PC in Edge, my already started message was here ready to just carry straight on - how did that happen?!?!?)
Hi Paul,

Clever things computers! :)

If you watch this icon while typing:

xf_auto_save.png

You will see the green dot flashing on and off as your work is saved.

XF saves your work in the database as a Draft post, and offers it back when you re-start. If not wanted, you can Delete it on the drop-down.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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And the answer is.... it's an Associated Position Light Signal! As Martin suggested, used for shunting moves with the red aspect on. It differs from a ground signal in only having the two white lights at 45 degrees which are either on or off, whereas a ground signal always has at least one light on.

Further info is on Wikipedia at UK railway signalling - Wikipedia So, the next question is to investigate making them in 4mm scale.

Cheers,
Paul
 
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Hi Paul,

Is there nothing available from the trade? There are several modern signal suppliers that I have seen at various shows, I would have assumed that the FR would have bought something off the shelf rather than make it themselves, or at least adapted something to suit their needs.
 
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Hi Paul,

Is there nothing available from the trade? There are several modern signal suppliers that I have seen at various shows, I would have assumed that the FR would have bought something off the shelf rather than make it themselves, or at least adapted something to suit their needs.
Hi Phil

The FR signals are all off the shelf parts, although I think "scrounge" is probably more appropriate for the FR than "bought"! Most of my signal will be based on Eckon parts. I had originally thought of modifying an Eckon ground signal for use as the shunt signal, but last night I found someone selling a 3D printed kit for that which was exactly right except that his quoted dimensions seemed to be wrong - I suspect he's accidentally quoted sizes for the 7mm scale version. I've asked for clarification and assuming his are correct, I think I'll be on a roll! It'll then be a case of fitting suitable LEDs and getting the wires down the post.

I have seen some rather nice signals from the trade but many newer brands seem to be ridiculously expensive and designed for DCC control. Although I'll use DCC, things like signals will be controlled by CBUS modules.

Cheers,
Paul
 
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This is a long shot, but has anyone bought these? 10x 3D printed 2 LENSES SHUNTING GROUND SIGNAL 1:76, OO Model Miniature Railway | eBay They're apparently just what I'm looking for, but whilst they're described as 1:76 scale, the drawing shows they're 9mm wide instead of around 6mm as they should be. I've messaged the seller to confirm the size but not had a response, and it seems eBay won't let me ask again as the "Send" button is greyed out!
 
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Hi Paul,
I have sent a message to the seller for you as well and also asked what size LEDs they take. They may have been made oversize to fit a certain size LED. I will let you know if I get a reply.

Rob
 
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Thanks Rob. I wonder if he's accidentally used the 7mm scale drawing, but even then that should make them about 10mm wide, not 9mm. It would be a shame if they are over-sized because they're otherwise spot on.
 
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Hi Paul,

A bit late I know but the contact email address is at the bottom of the page you listed
under the Business Information section.

Regards, Matt M.
 
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Oh, so it is! Thanks for that Matt! I had to click another button to get the email address to show which may have been why I missed it. Anyway, email duly sent!
 
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Well, that was quick! He was very apologetic, but the main message is "Regarding the shunting signal lights, the drawing is showing wrong dimensions. The actual prints are approx. 6mm wide. In the past the lights were incorrect size and few modellers point my attention to this issue. I have tweaked them, but forgot to update drawing."

So I've ordered some! Thanks again, Matt, for drawing my attention to his email address!
 
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Things do seem to be coming together, I’ve got to the point where I need something to put built track onto, which means baseboards are on order!
 
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Hi Paul,
Daniel got back to me regarding the ground signals you mentioned and admitted the sizes were wrong as you found out. He suggests SMD 0402 LEDS.

Rob

 
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He did suggest buying the prewired ones :) It wouldn't be the first time I had melted an eyeglass with the iron on small stuff..and spent the next 10 minutes with a squint into the bargain.

Rob
 
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Just an update on this. After doing battle with Royal Mail, the parts eventually arrived. Daniel sent replacements out very quickly once I contacted him. Anyway, the parts are very nicely made, with some very fine detail. I’m looking forward to doing something with these - at the moment I have baseboards built, big chunks of track built and I’m currently working on the electronics (MERG) for the layout. That last aspect will be overkill but electronics is also a hobby, so it interests me!
 

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