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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

German turnout

Quick reply >

Gregor

Member
Location
Germany
Hello,

Do I have a possibility to define turnouts with German sleeper position as standard?
In the picture shown, I have adjusted all the sleepers individually. They are not all correctly placed yet, but I think you can see where the journey is going.

Thank you
Gregor



EW190-1zu6.png
 
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Hi Gregor,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

I'm not clear what you mean by "define as standard"?

The default settings in Templot are for UK REA bullhead turnouts. There isn't any option to change that.

What you can do is:

1. create your required custom turnout, as you have done.

2. store it as a library template (program > store as library template menu item).

3. repeat for any other required turnouts.

4. save a file with the name: start.box

It will be loaded automatically every time Templot starts up. You can then copy any required templates from the storage box to the control template.

p.s. your turnout has the nose of the V-crossing unsupported on a timber. Is that correct for your prototype? Also you have machined flares on the wing rails mixed with bent flares on the check rails -- which looks odd to UK eyes.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hello Martin,

Thank you for your kind welcome.

One thing first: I must apologise for the fact that I have unfortunately not learned any English and I am using a translation programme to help me! I hope that everything is well understood!

I came across your really great programme by chance. It's amazing what you have developed!

My idea was to create a turnout in the original, according to German dimensions. For example, an EW190 1:9 standard turnout. If I then want to represent this as a shortened one in 1:6, the sleepers are taken over and I don't have to adapt them again.

The illustrated turnout was my first attempt to see if it is possible to represent turnouts according to German form.

I also find it great that the function for the representation of the rail foot is implemented. The output as a DXF file leaves nothing to be desired....

Cheers

Gregor
 
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Hello Martin,

I find myself getting better and better at your programme! I was able to set the length and width of the timbers permanently. I still don't have a solution for the sleeper spacing for the straight track and at the beginning and end of the turnout. Can I set that too?

Greetings
Gregor
Templot2 17.04.2021 21_55_30.png
InkedTemplot2 17.04.2021 22_41_42_LI.jpg
 
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I find myself getting better and better at your programme! I was able to set the length and width of the timbers permanently. I still don't have a solution for the sleeper spacing for the straight track and at the beginning and end of the turnout. Can I set that too?

Hi Gregor,

Yes, you can set that. There is not much which can't be set, but it's not always obvious or quick for non-UK prototypes.

But first, there is no need to convert your metric data to inches, Templot will do that for you. :)

If you prefix your data with a letter m, you can enter mm dimensions when asked for inches:

( m="metric" not "metres" )

input_conversion_letters.png


For more information, click the ? help button, scroll to the bottom of the notes, and click about conversion factors.

I will write again about your other questions, but see this page:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/timber_spacings_overview.php

timber_spacings_899x436.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hello Martin,

thanks for the link.

I have fought my way through it. Slowly I'm getting the hang of it. Meanwhile I have a second monitor on my desk to read through the descriptions.
Even my wife is enthusiastic about your programme! She does a lot with AuoCad. It's all a lot of work, but what comes out of it...

An EW190 on 1:6
The check rails could be shortened a bit

Regards
Gregor
Templot2 19.04.2021 00_04_52.png
 
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Hello Martin,

thanks for the link.

I have fought my way through it. Slowly I'm getting the hang of it. Meanwhile I have a second monitor on my desk to read through the descriptions.
Even my wife is enthusiastic about your programme! She does a lot with AuoCad. It's all a lot of work, but what comes out of it...

An EW190 on 1:6
The check rails could be shortened a bit

Regards
Gregor
View attachment 863
 
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Hallo Gregor

I am a Brit, now living in Berlin. I am learning Templot, slowly, but making good progress. I would like to get to know other Templot users based in Germany. I am interested in the geometry of German track and how it differs from the UK. I speak quite good German too!

My planned project is to build in 0 Gauge a layout based on UK British Railways Southern Region, Southern Electric, as it was in the 1960s.

I could give you my Email address here - would that be permitted?

Best Wishes!
 
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Hello Chris,

We can exchange ideas via e-mail. I don't know anyone in Germany who uses Templot or even knows it. I think many people find it difficult to build their own and use the standard material.
I try a lot and help myself with Deepl to translate all the help texts. Now I'm going to create all the switches and sleepers and then I'll start with the layout.

Greetings
Gregor
 
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Hello Martin,

I have another question about the programme. Is it possible to construct a 3-rail track and possibly also turnouts?

Greetings
Gregor
 
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I have another question about the programme. Is it possible to construct a 3-rail track and possibly also turnouts?
@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

Do you mean 3rd or 4th rail electrification? See Russ Elliott's web site:

http://www.clag.org.uk/3rd-4th.html

All things are possible in Templot if you use an assembly of partial templates. There is no built-in support for electrified track.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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No, I meant standard gauge with integrated narrow gauge.
@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

That's called mixed-gauge track in the UK. :)

Again, it can be done using an assembly of partial templates. There is no built-in support for mixed-gauge track.

Here is a mixed-gauge crossover (without-side-swap) built up from partial templates:

gwr_mixed_night.png


You can download the Templot file for the above from:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_289.php

and then pull it apart to see each partial template. :)

There is also a scruffy bit of video showing mixed-gauge templates being aligned, at:

https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=EM_ENROSktwyUpc20zLIwQ2

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Gregor - and Martin

Thanks for your replies and my apologies for the delayed response.

I guess it's pretty unlikely to find a crowd of Templotters in Germany, let alone in Berlin. But it was worth asking!

I'll post further in the 'About' section,as you (Martin) suggested.
 
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I have a friend in Sweden who uses Templot; I'm not sure if he uses it for his American trains or European trains! He is multi-lingual.

Regarding German check rails, they are not usually built from rail as per the UK, but sometimes an angle iron shape or square section.

I wonder if Gregor realises he can change the rail profile from bullhead to flat bottom?

There's been some useful track articles in Modelbahn Eisenbahn magazine over the years including historic templates for pointwork.
 
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Hello Martin,

I need your help. Where or how can I create individual templates or divide them so that the rails do not overlap?
Similar to the mixed gauge you showed.
I hope you can see what I mean?

@roythebus I have changed that immediately. Thank you.

Greetings Gregor
 

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Hello Martin,

thank you very much.

I got it right....

Cheers

Gregor
 

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@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

That looks good. :)

Your extended wing rails are not quite long enough to properly check the V-crossings. The wheels need to be past the flare angle and fully under the control of the check rail before they reach the the opposite knuckle gap.

I suggest extending all these by one extra timber space:

gregor_check_flares.png


Also it seems a bit strange for them to have machined flares if the plain check rails have bent flares?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Also it seems a bit strange for them to have machined flares if the plain check rails have bent flares?
That is a common practice also in the Netherlands and some parts of Poland, for Belgium and France i am not sure.
When the check rails needs to be longer it is also machined on more recent turnouts in the Netherlands, for the other country's i mentioned i am not sure, sorry.

Best
 
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Hello

I lasered my first turnout today. A few sleepers are still removed and replaced by PCB to solder the rails on it. I hope that it works as I have imagined.

To laser the part still needs some work. The DXF file needs to be edited with a CAD program.

Next will be the rails...

Cheers

Gregor


4241E0F2-7A7D-4E06-B006-7591CA3ED1FE.jpeg
 
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Hello.

I made a few mistakes while editing the dxf file! But I noticed that only in the final product.

I have forgotten a few separations and the recess for the actuator mechanism. I have ironed out the errors and again new Ge LaserTools. The rails are only put on, but already finished.

It is really great to work with your program Martin. I also like the radio integration.

Greetings
Gregor

3D48B7F1-FED3-4F35-98E7-B7866C570FF7.jpeg
+
 
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Hi Gregor,

That's looking very impressive. I'm always interested to see what folks do with Templot. :)

Recently you and Igor have taken Templot in directions I would never have imagined (and know little about).

Are those timbers the correct width for your prototype? They look very narrow to UK eyes.

What is the advantage of laser cutting a full timber base rather than sticking individual timbers on a paper template in the traditional way? It's becoming more popular in the UK too as a means of pointwork construction. But it always seems to me to cause more work than it saves, and it certainly consumes more plywood.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hello Martin,

Thank you very much.

It is interesting how different the railway is. Different gauges, the arrangement of the sleepers and their distances...... I have difficulties to find my way with all the names of the turnouts in templot!
But I think that the designation A with the EW190 is 1:9 and the EW300, EW500 etc. are the corresponding C, D etc.

As for the sleepers, they are 260mm wide (10.236 inches). Some are only 250mm. The spacing of the sleepers on the turnouts also varies. I bought a book with drawings of turnouts from the time of the German Reichsbahn, i.e. until about 1990.

I am attaching a picture.

D6C02E9B-B469-41E0-9179-86A231D96D5C.jpeg


Certainly you need more plywood and the preparation takes more time. But they can be reproduced more quickly if you need the same ones.

Many people shy away from building them themselves, which was also the case for me until a few months ago. But once you start, you realise that you don't have to buy off the shelf and you can create all the geometries yourself....

Your programme is really great. Unfortunately, there's nothing like it here.
I would think of S21, which I used to plan my station. Unfortunately, development was discontinued years ago. Then I came across Templot...
It does require a few adaptations to the German track, but templot is simply unsurpassed for self-construction.

The turnout I constructed with Templot is very much shortened. As far as geometry and optics (sleeper position) are concerned, there is nothing like it in TT from any manufacturer. The turnouts are roughly equivalent to the American or English ones.

We read each other again...

many greetings
Gregor
 
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Hello Martin,

me again. Here are a few pictures of the turnout. Only the colour is missing...

A small mistake has crept into the designation: It should be 9,46°!

Have a nice Sunday and best regards

Gregor

w1.jpg

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Last edited:
Excellent progress there. What gauge are you using? HO or TT? Are you going to use anything to represent the rail fixing to the sleepers?

Hervorragende Fortschritte dort. Welches Messgerät verwenden Sie? HO oder TT? Wirst du irgendetwas verwenden, um die Schienenbefestigung an den Schwellen darzustellen?
 
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Excellent progress there. What gauge are you using? HO or TT? Are you going to use anything to represent the rail fixing to the sleepers?
The turnout I constructed with Templot is very much shortened. As far as geometry and optics (sleeper position) are concerned, there is nothing like it in TT from any manufacturer.


However i am following your progress with great interested.
Well done if i may say so.
But i need to get something off my chest, i hope i will not offend you.
Your points are not sharp enough in my eyes.
However keep in mind that my turnouts are 1:15, there where some experiments from 1:6 quickly to 1:7.5 moving on to 1:10 ect
We all learn, i made some mistakes.
Regarding your point work:
Instead of bending your curved and your strait stock rail i would suggest to file/sand down your points more.
I hope the pictures can and will illustrate what i am trying to tell:
20210517_175905.jpg
20210517_180404.jpg

20210517_180441.jpg

As you can clearly see i did sand the wrong side, but he it works!!
For the next experiments i will make it a "mirror" image.
I hope the nxt drawing helps to explane:
20210517_180319.jpg

Yes i did not make a good drawing, sorry about that, if you dont understand i will make a professional better one.
I think you will get it, if not ask please, i would be glad to be at any help.
Anyway
Number 1 is my first attempt for a point rail, this is something i am going to change.
My number two will be my next attempt..
The xxx's are filed/sanded away, keep in mind i use 2mm by 10mm alu strip.
Sinds we are neighbours we can learn from each other regarding track building as prototypical.
I encourage you to look at my other posts/pics for ideas and real life pictures, our tracks are the ~~same, mostly!

I hope this was helpful:
With best regards Igor
 
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Hello

Thank you

@roythebus I am building in TT.
Small irons are not planned yet. But what is not can still be.


@Justme Igor I see what you mean. Switchpoints and Stockrail are both filed! Due to the use of flat bottom rails, this is only possible to a limited extent. At some point the metal between head and foot breaks.
The filing on the inside of the switchpoits would also not correspond to the prototype.

many greetings
Gregor
 
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Hello Martin.

I'll attach my questions here. What is the difference between the points? I haven't quite understood that yet!
BH stands for Bull Head and FB for Flat Bottom. So far it should be correct?! Do they also differ in geometry? Which one should I use for my planning?

Thanks a lot

Regards
Gregor
 
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Hello Martin. ... ... Which one should I use for my planning?
@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

I'm, sorry, I haven't the faintest idea. I know nothing at all about German track geometry. :(

Someone else on here may be able to help.

All the pre-sets in Templot are based on UK track designs. If you want something else, it can be created as a custom template. But to do that you need to have access to the appropriate track data and drawings for your prototype.

See this page for details of the types of switches and crossings in Templot:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/real_track.php

The Templot pre-sets include switch geometry for both bullhead (BH) and flat-bottom (FB) UK switch designs:

switch_list.png


The usual model filing for the points in bullhead rail looks like this. The filing on both sides runs out at the "planing length". The position of this is marked on the templates as "stock gauge". A bend is put in the point rail (blade) at that position to return the running edge to a straight line:
2_010613_550000000.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hello Martin,

Thank you for your answer.

I was only interested in the difference between bra size A-F and FB size SA-SF semi-curved.

But if I understand correctly, I can plan with BH. If I change the track settings to code 70 or other. Enter head and foot dimensions and change to Flat Bottom?!

I definitely have to adjust the sleepers all by hand.

Cheers
Gregor
 
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@Gregor

Hi Gregor,

If I had to guess (which is all it is, a guess) I would think the curved FB BS-113A switches might be the best match to German designs:

fb_curved_switches.png


After selecting one of them, the F5 mouse action will swap to the different sizes as you change the turnout size.

Alternatively, there are some USA-style 11ft and 16ft-6in custom switches available for download:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_1335.php

Follow the instructions there to convert them to TT. They might or might not match German switches.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Remember German TT is 1:120, not like English TT 1:100.

This is an interesting conversation. Maybe look in some old copies of the German magazine Modelbahn eisenbahn. they had some track articles over the years. I don't subscribe to it any more. Maybe ask the UK-based German Railway Society if they have any prototype track drawings?
 
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@Gregor
I have accumulated a lot of close up pictures from frogs point ect, mostly from The Netherlands and the Soviet Union around 1950.
Soviet (1920-1960) is what i am going to model and the Dutch railway was interested(1920-1950 and 1980-2000).
As i stated before our railroads are pretty much the same design, i am for 95% sure.
Before 1960 i am almost 99% sure.
Before 1945, more questions than answers:

If you are modelling a area before 1930, than the dutch railway will not help you, instead look for British railway? but this i am not really sure.
My knowledge about the German Empire regarding railroad is not much.
How ever there where efforts i thought between the Emperor and Lenin and Stalin.
I am sorry i am not able to help you with this time frame for your country, only with things I had a quick read on.
I also thought the British where involved heavy in the development in this time frame, after Lenin there where some changes i thought.
Mostly for the demand of freight, the building of coal wagons exploded in 1922-1925 and even that bad they had to order them in Poland in 1930-1932

Back to today.
The main changes in appearance thru the time frames is the height of the track, lengths and shape of the safety rails, incl the frogs.
Now add some engineers from different country's and you will see that there are all made for the demand of that particular line/country.
For my feeling is around 1970 in Europa (U.S.S.R around 1930's and the US of A around 1900's-1910's) the difference between commuting tracks and freight tracks really separate.
Trains are getting faster, longer, heavier and commuters want more comfort, both want to have more speed, etc.
How far you want to go in this subject?

If i compare pictures from Nuremberg tracks from around 1980 before they where replaced they look very similar to the Dutch track work.
I hope this helps?

Anyway what time frame are you modelling btw and more important how far you want to take it into detail.
Maybe i can give you a better and more suited answer instead of a global answer.
For rail cross sections i can not be of assistance. BH FH ect.
I can imaging TT scale will be indoors and at 1 meter high, so details are going to be very important?

With best regards, Igor

Ps The corner of the Chinese/Japanese tracks are a different world with a second look
 
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Hello Igor,

I build in the period until 1990 of the German Reichsbahn. Actually, my station is finished. The problem is the lack of prototypical turnouts. There are Tillig, Kühn and TTFiligran, unfortunately all do not fit together. Code 83, code 70 and 60 are used by them. Filigran does have them, but many shy away from the effort of installation.

My layout can be set up variably. I have different legs for the 1m and 1.30m height of the system.I would like to plan and build the fiddle yard with my own turnouts, as I can build more flexibly that way.

I'll add a few more pictures....
 

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I think you must decide to one code and start from there to build your own.
I can help you with close up pics from prototypical track.
Tell me what you want.
Our railroads are the same except:
In the Netherlands if i am not mistaking from 1:9 and up the frogs are full cast, below that they are in several pieces or: in exception heavily used fiddle yards like the "kijfhoek" nearby Rotterdam and "den Haag" Google on youtube: "Kijfhoek" and be surprised.
Look in my profile of what i downloaded of pics from Amsterdam CS.
Those tracks where replaced i thought just before 1990! jackpot for you.

For the German Reichsbahn i thought it was from 1:8 and up for full manganees casted frogs, but i am not sure.
Regarding guardrail ect we are the same regarding shapes and iron bars(no track is used anymore sinds 1975-1980?)
More toward the Polish border (mostly "old" eastern Germany) there is a change in rail and frogs.
I hope this year we can go to Poland again, there is a station with old tracks i want to photograph(Between Ribnik and Gliwitcha somewhere) its Soviet track meting European track.

What does this has to do with me you ask....
To point out some similarities and some differences.
Whitch station are you building? a copy or a own?
And where?
If my history is correct the wall fell in 1989.
Big differences in track!
In case of west Berlin, you did a nice job on your turn out.
But practice makes it perfect.
Yes i am a bit of a purist, sorry, that does not mean you have to be to!

With best regards Igor from the Netherlands
 
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Hello Martin, hello Igor

it takes a bit of work, but works to create German-style turnouts!
TOP...

The most common form of the turnouts of the Reichsbahn was the 1:9. Smaller with 1:7.5 and 6.6 there were also, but these rather rare.
The high-speed switches go up to 1:14 or 18.5. As for the check rails and wing rails, there was both possible, bent or machined and that also mixed.

I have a link here, on the page are a few pictures of turnouts.....


Thank you both.

Greetings Gregor

Kreuzung 1-6.jpg
 
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