• The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this post.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see The Book of Plug Track.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files.

GWR Branch Terminus Journey

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LittleWestern

Member
Location
Slovakia
Hi all,

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm James a soon to be GWR modeller hailing from the South UK but living in Slovakia. I'm re-joining the hobby of modelling after over a decade of absence and have decided to go down the route of relative realism when creating this new layout as opposed to simply using set-track and such.

A friend of mine suggested that the Templot program would be of great use to me when it came to planning not only the layout but specifically making my own trackwork from templates moving forward, which is exactly the level of detail I'm looking for. Not only that but he also suggested muddling through the forum posts for additional information, so far I've had a browse through a few and I'm quite impressed, not just by the level of detail in the topics but the knowledge the community can provide.

My plan is to create an 1930's GWR Branch Terminus, and eventually branch line, with realism being the striving goal. I will use this thread to post progress and potentially questions for opinions and criticism. Please if you see or read something that you believe to be wrong, call me out on it, I will not be offended. I am here to learn and evolve, I'm also well aware this adventure will take months if not years to achieve it's goal.

Thanks for all the information provided here already and to that which is provided in the future.
(First progress post/information will follow this post)
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
So my first job has been to research Branch Terminus locations for key factors, take those factors and comprise a trackplan that would fit in my available space. Current spacing is a maximum of 3500mmx600mm split currently into 4 baseboards across that area.
Factors to include have been:
- A single platform at roughly 105m in length (1381mm scaled down)
- A run-around loop to move locomotives from tail to the head of a train.
- A relief ahead of the platform and runaround turnout for locomotive staging or movement
- A headshunt on the runaround for staging or movement
- Separated Yard area including:
- Long line for good shed and yard​
- 1 or 2 long sidings for wagon/coach storage​
- If big enough, a locomotive shed and facilities (though I have opted for this off of the runaround loop)​

In inclusion of this I have created a backstory seeing as it is a fictional station on a fictional branchline. It will serve 2 local industries that originally built the line in the early 1900s. In Early 1920s it was brought, ran and updated by the GWR. With the factories still operating their own traffic into yards for the GWR to transport further afield.

While this research is still ongoing, there are some things I would like to experiment with moving forward one of those is Templot!
I started with the turnouts for the Run-Around section of the line, a simple 300mm straight as the loco relief, 2x 16ft Curviform LH GWR Old Type Heel Switches (Attached). The ultimate goal will be to eventually lay each piece of trackwork with Bullhead Stainless Steel rails, Timber Sleepers and the correct chairs for GWR lines. This does seem to mean that for sections in between turnouts, there are a few places to acquire the correct chairing, albeit a relatively costly method. As for turnouts themselves, I have been able to source a manufacturer of Slide Chairs (Modelu), Running L1 and S1J Chairs (C&L Finescale) & Exactoscale via Scalefour. (Thank you Stephan Freeman for that information) It's very possible I will eventually get around to teaching myself how to design them in 3d and print myself but that is down the road a ways.

So I am planning to buy some rails in the coming month and attempt to 3d print Templot provided REA chairs so I can:
1) Get used to Templot, printing and it's controls
2) Create my first hand-made turnout using all intended materials as a proof of concept
3) Use these experiences to hone my skills and find my weaknesses
4) For enjoyment!
I have already prepared to order the required track gauges and tools needed to move forward and simply now want to get stuck in!

Of course the research never ends, several modellers and users here have pointed me towards David Smith's books regarding GWR Modelling and you can be assured those will be on order also in the coming weeks and months.

There is a low possibility of having any locomotives running for the foreseeable future but for me that is only part of the fun, I am looking forward to the journey of how I can recreate an accurate (or as accurate as possible) representation for the GWR in 4mm Scale (OO Gauge)

Please feel free to drop whatever information, criticism or questions regarding my comments and progress you may have.
 

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David Higgs

Member
Location
Bletchley
If you've not already got a copy you will find the GWSG book on "GWR SWITCH AND CROSSING PRACTICE" very useful.

Link: https://www.gwsg.org.uk/GWSG_Publications.html

cvr_track_400px.jpg
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

A couple of things.

1. don't use stainless steel rail. Just don't. Hi-Ni nickel-silver is fine. Mild steel is ok.

2. for the type of finescale model you describe, most 00 modellers would nowadays go for 00-SF rather than the 00-BF standard you have in your file. The improved running of kit wheels and better appearance of the flangeways will be noticeable.

00-SF gauges are available from C&L.

Here is a very attractive GWR layout in 00-SF, although as far as I know not using GWR chairs or old-type switches:


More about the layout: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/112547-stoke-courtenay/?do=findComment&comment=4781643

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Location
Holmes Chapel, Cheshire
Info
Builder of Finescale Signals in 2mm scale to 7mm scale, Trackwork, Turnouts and Layouts.
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

A couple of things.

1. don't use stainless steel rail. Just don't. Hi-Ni nickel-silver is fine. Mild steel is ok.

2. for the type of finescale model you describe, most 00 modellers would nowadays go for 00-SF rather than the 00-BF standard you have in your file. The improved running of kit wheels and better appearance of the flangeways will be noticeable.

00-SF gauges are available from C&L.

Here is a very attractive GWR layout in 00-SF, although as far as I know not using GWR chairs or old-type switches:


More about the layout: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/112547-stoke-courtenay/?do=findComment&comment=4781643

cheers,

Martin.
Not quite true, I think. The double and single slips definitely do have 2 bolt chairs. I still have the boxfile for them but can't tell from the information what the original basis was. Not sure about the rest of the layout but I think it might have 2 bolt chairs on the visible part, though the turnouts are probably B6. Perhaps ask on Johns RMWeb thread?
 
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Phil O

Member
Location
Plymouth.
Hi James,

Welcome to the club. I have just had a quick look at your turnouts and I see that you have used 16 foot switches with the 1 in 7 crossing, from memory the usual switches are 12 foot, but I don't have the book to hand to double check, that. I will check it at lunchtime, when I will have the book to hand.
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

A couple of things.

1. don't use stainless steel rail. Just don't. Hi-Ni nickel-silver is fine. Mild steel is ok.

2. for the type of finescale model you describe, most 00 modellers would nowadays go for 00-SF rather than the 00-BF standard you have in your file. The improved running of kit wheels and better appearance of the flangeways will be noticeable.

00-SF gauges are available from C&L.

Here is a very attractive GWR layout in 00-SF, although as far as I know not using GWR chairs or old-type switches:


More about the layout: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/112547-stoke-courtenay/?do=findComment&comment=4781643

cheers,

Martin.
Hi @Martin Wynne,

Thank you for the information.
1) I'm guessing the avoidance of stainless is rust? I will simply look for an alterative stocking of Hi-Ni segments then (y) cheers.
2) 00-SF, from my understanding, it's 16.2mm as opposed to standard 16.5mm doesn't that make it, less accurate? (please remember I am a novice who has been used to SetTrack. I want to hear your wisdom.
I'm guessing these are the gauges you recommend:
- https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/4MM-ROLLER-TRACK-GAUGES-SF-16-2MM-PAIR-p128178426
- https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/onlin...O-SF-3-POINT-TRIANGULAR-RAIL-GAUGE-p128178431
3) Thanks for the video link for inspiration. This kinda of information is exactly what I need while on my journey.

Cheers,
James
 
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message ref: 4121
Location
Holmes Chapel, Cheshire
Info
Builder of Finescale Signals in 2mm scale to 7mm scale, Trackwork, Turnouts and Layouts.
Hi @Martin Wynne,

Thank you for the information.
1) I'm guessing the avoidance of stainless is rust? I will simply look for an alterative stocking of Hi-Ni segments then (y) cheers.
2) 00-SF, from my understanding, it's 16.2mm as opposed to standard 16.5mm doesn't that make it, less accurate? (please remember I am a novice who has been used to SetTrack. I want to hear your wisdom.
I'm guessing these are the gauges you recommend:
- https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/4MM-ROLLER-TRACK-GAUGES-SF-16-2MM-PAIR-p128178426
- https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/onlin...O-SF-3-POINT-TRIANGULAR-RAIL-GAUGE-p128178431
3) Thanks for the video link for inspiration. This kinda of information is exactly what I need while on my journey.

Cheers,
James
The avoidance of Stainless steel is not because of rust, it doesn't but more because it is more difficult solder to. I have used it and providing a decent flux and lead-free solder is used with a hot iron (probably hotter than is normally used, which has it's own problems) is possible.

No, the main problem for me, that needs to be taken account of is it's maleability. It is very soft and bends easily (too easily for me), which makes it difficult to cut, forget trying to use any Xuron cutters with it. Best cut with a disc or piercing saw.

Visually though it does look a lot more realistic than any type of Nickel Silver or ordinary steel.
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
Hi James,

Welcome to the club. I have just had a quick look at your turnouts and I see that you have used 16 foot switches with the 1 in 7 crossing, from memory the usual switches are 12 foot, but I don't have the book to hand to double check, that. I will check it at lunchtime, when I will have the book to hand.
Hi @Phil O,

It was from my brief understanding that for my time period and history of the branch. I should be aiming for:
- Old Type Heel Switches (pre1930s GWR) These can be in the Yard and the Branch itself, although I could use Group 3 from Templot and claim they were "Updated" for the branch line and Platforms but not the Yard.
- 1:7 from reading seems to be the standard for crossings, please correct me if I am wrong.
- I used 16ft as really a test bed, I'm sure the correct sizes will be apparent when I purchase the book! Any insight you can provide will be much appreciated!

These turnouts are for the Run-Around at the end of my proposed platform but honestly I wanted to 1) Try and create something 2) Print something to get a rough idea of size, how to do it and start modelling something, whether it would end up being used or not.

Cheers,

James
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
The avoidance of Stainless steel is not because of rust, it doesn't but more because it is more difficult solder to. I have used it and providing a decent flux and lead-free solder is used with a hot iron (probably hotter than is normally used, which has it's own problems) is possible.

No, the main problem for me, that needs to be taken account of is it's maleability. It is very soft and bends easily (too easily for me), which makes it difficult to cut, forget trying to use any Xuron cutters with it. Best cut with a disc or piercing saw.

Visually though it does look a lot more realistic than any type of Nickel Silver or ordinary steel.
Thanks for clearing that up! I'll take that into consideration. My eventual hope is to only be soldering wire droppers and not track to copper clad sleepers but we will see!
 
_______________
message ref: 4124
Location
Holmes Chapel, Cheshire
Info
Builder of Finescale Signals in 2mm scale to 7mm scale, Trackwork, Turnouts and Layouts.
Hi @Phil O,

It was from my brief understanding that for my time period and history of the branch. I should be aiming for:
- Old Type Heel Switches (pre1930s GWR) These can be in the Yard and the Branch itself, although I could use Group 3 from Templot and claim they were "Updated" for the branch line and Platforms but not the Yard.
- 1:7 from reading seems to be the standard for crossings, please correct me if I am wrong.
- I used 16ft as really a test bed, I'm sure the correct sizes will be apparent when I purchase the book! Any insight you can provide will be much appreciated!

These turnouts are for the Run-Around at the end of my proposed platform but honestly I wanted to 1) Try and create something 2) Print something to get a rough idea of size, how to do it and start modelling something, whether it would end up being used or not.

Cheers,

James
As Phil says, there is a mismatch in switches and crossings. There is a table in the book on page 16:

9ft switches 1 in 4.5 to 1 in 5.25
10ft " 1 in 5.5 to 1 in 6.25
12ft " 1 in 6.5 to 1 in 8
14ft " 1 in 8 to 1 in 8.25
15ft " 1 in 9 to 1 in 9.5
16ft " 1 in 10 to 1in 10.5
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
1:7 from reading seems to be the standard for crossings, please correct me if I am wrong.
I used 16ft as really a test bed, I'm sure the correct sizes will be apparent when I purchase the book! Any insight you can provide will be much appreciated!
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

There is no such thing as a standard size for crossings. It depends on what fits the site, the type of traffic, and the line speed.

If you use the F5 size mouse action to change the size of turnouts, Templot will automatically select a suitable switch size in each group, to match the V-crossing angle:

f5_gwr.png


As I've mentioned so many times over the years, it really is better to learn the basics of Templot before getting into the nuts and bolts of a specific prototype project or layout plan. No-one ever takes any notice. :)

p.s. to change the V-crossing angle without affecting the switch size, use the F9 mouse action instead. For both mouse actions you can choose whether to have an infinite adjustment, or snap to 1/4 RAM steps.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
As Phil says, there is a mismatch in switches and crossings. There is a table in the book on page 16:

9ft switches 1 in 4.5 to 1 in 5.25
10ft " 1 in 5.5 to 1 in 6.25
12ft " 1 in 6.5 to 1 in 8
14ft " 1 in 8 to 1 in 8.25
15ft " 1 in 9 to 1 in 9.5
16ft " 1 in 10 to 1in 10.5
Thanks, good to know. I'll take this into account later when I've gotten used to Templot and begin to make a layout plan. The book is now on order.
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

There is no such thing as a standard size for crossings. It depends on what fits the site, the type of traffic, and the line speed.

If you use the F5 size mouse action to change the size of turnouts, Templot will automatically select a suitable switch size in each group, to match the V-crossing angle:

View attachment 3515

As I've mentioned so many times over the years, it really is better to learn the basics of Templot before getting into the nuts and bolts of a specific prototype project or layout plan. No-one ever takes any notice. :)

p.s. to change the V-crossing angle without affecting the switch size, use the F9 mouse action instead. For both mouse actions you can choose whether to have an infinite adjustment, or snap to 1/4 RAM steps.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi @Martin Wynne,

Thanks again for your insight! That is really the point of me creating and printing that first template, and posting here on the forum. So I can learn before fully committing :) Also thanks for the tips regarding changes to crossings and such. I'll take those into consideration also.

Cheers,
James
 
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Phil O

Member
Location
Plymouth.
James,

1 in 7 crossings and 12 ft switches is perfectly adequate for a branchline loco release. At Cranmore on the ESR the shed crossover has those turnouts and they were regularly used by std class 4, 4-6-0 & 9f, also a visiting Castle, H15 and a west country. The only loco that caused us any problems was a 56xx.
 
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LittleWestern

Member
Thread starter
Location
Slovakia
James,

1 in 7 crossings and 12 ft switches is perfectly adequate for a branchline loco release. At Cranmore on the ESR the shed crossover has those turnouts and they were regularly used by std class 4, 4-6-0 & 9f, also a visiting Castle, H15 and a west country. The only loco that caused us any problems was a 56xx.
That's good to hear! Pity regarding the 56xx, I will have one maybe on the layout :D I was aiming to run/showcase Blue Axel Class locomotives as I've been told my layout size would not warrant anything higher than that. Maybe because its a single track potentially 1 in Steam line.

I am tempted to try and make it dual line up the branch to further stations and eventual junction while leaving the terminus single platform only.
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
.
Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
helpful replies.
That's good to hear! Pity regarding the 56xx, I will have one maybe on the layout
@LittleWestern

Hi James,

Phil was referring to prototype locomotives. 00 gauge models will go round very much sharper curves, down to train-set sizes if you are sticking with 00-BF.

Martin.
 
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message ref: 4132
Location
Holmes Chapel, Cheshire
Info
Builder of Finescale Signals in 2mm scale to 7mm scale, Trackwork, Turnouts and Layouts.
I wouldn't worry about the route classification too much. As ever there is a prototype for everything. For instance the single line to Kingswear was rated to take Castles and I think Kings. It all depends on the construction of the line.
 
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Phil O

Member
Location
Plymouth.
That's good to hear! Pity regarding the 56xx, I will have one maybe on the layout :D I was aiming to run/showcase Blue Axel Class locomotives as I've been told my layout size would not warrant anything higher than that. Maybe because its a single track potentially 1 in Steam line.

I am tempted to try and make it dual line up the branch to further stations and eventual junction while leaving the terminus single platform only.

@LittleWestern

Hi James,

Phil was referring to prototype locomotives. 00 gauge models will go round very much sharper curves, down to train-set sizes if you are sticking with 00-BF.

Martin.


Indeed, I am talking 12 inches to the foot, the 56xx could and did negotiate the 1 in 7, 12 ft switch turnouts, but at a cost in maintenance, due to the length of "rigid "wheelbase, as far as a 00 model is concerned, it's not a problem as most RTR models will negotiate less than prototype radius curves. Your model can possibly negotiate 1st radius curves and will definitely negotiate 2nd radius curves, there's very few of us have the space for fully prototypical radii and turnouts.

I look forward to the day they pick my numbers out, on the lottery and can afford a 25 x 10 metre shed with house attached, until such times, I will have to be content with 8ft by 1ft 6ins.
 
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