GWR Branch Terminus Journey

[LittleWestern]

@LittleWestern

Hi James,

Phil was referring to prototype locomotives. 00 gauge models will go round very much sharper curves, down to train-set sizes if you are sticking with 00-BF.

Martin.

I understood that Thanks for the clarification. Honestly I'm set to go with 00-SF moving forward. But we will see!

 

[LittleWestern]

I wouldn't worry about the route classification too much. As ever there is a prototype for everything. For instance the single line to Kingswear was rated to take Castles and I think Kings. It all depends on the construction of the line.

See this is what I like to hear, hearing some say 'no that would never work on that size board' almost talked me out of going for a good deal of realism.

Thanks,

James

 

[John Lewis]

James,

1 in 7 crossings and 12 ft switches is perfectly adequate for a branchline loco release. At Cranmore on the ESR the shed crossover has those turnouts and they were regularly used by std class 4, 4-6-0 & 9f, also a visiting Castle, H15 and a west country. The only loco that caused us any problems was a 56xx.

Interesting!
A GWR Circular of 1943 of which I have a photocopy, says the minimum radius for a 5600 is 5 chains, or 4½ "Slow speed", whereas for a "Castle" the figures are 8 chains and 7 chains respectively.

John

 

[Phil O]

Hi John,

We thought that, too! Weight distribution may have played a part, but the 56xx has gone now, so no longer a problem.

 

[LittleWestern]

So a small update to the layout on my side:
- Chairs for branch and siding track has been sourced, those for switch rails (2 bolt heels) have also been sourced, I will have to bodge for certain chairs and likely use REA check rail chairs where need be. But I am still researching this.
- I took the time to create a small industrial yard that will hopefully extend from the BLT in future but for now allows me to practice my track laying etc.. 1100mmx300mm
- I've decided to use OldType GWR 10ft turnouts at 1:5.5. and it's allowed me to get the correct dimensions for usabilty in the aviable shelf space.
- To save on space I've used a 3-way Double Tandem turnout, not sure if it is correct so thought I would drop it here and feel free to critise away! It's still possible I will leave it as a standard crossing and add another turnout in the gap between.

- Other than that, some books have been ordered, chairs, rails and gauges for building are ready to order and I'm ready to get stuck in.
- Having this first project "as realistic as possible" is not the end goal as it's mostly a chance to practice building. I can always redesign it later for a more realistic trackplan.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and thanks for all your previous help!
James - LWR

 

[Hayfield]

James

If you are using 3 bolt chairs, then there are a whole array of normal and special chairs, for GWR 2 bolt the special chairs can still be used, sometimes by modifying them with 2 bolt inner and outers

C&L

As well as standard and slide chairs their new sprues include both bridge and joint chairs in both 2 bolt and 3 bolt

Exactoscale

The standard L1 and M1 chairs are available E4CH 201A / 203A

Additional switch chairs E4CH 501A
Common crossing chairs E4CH 502A
0.8 Check chairs 4CH 403A

For the 3 way you may have to choose chairs by eye, might even be worth buying a packet of obtuse chairs 4CH 503A for the odd part

Look at the track parts/position pages
https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

These chairs were designed for the old P4 company turnout kits, some positions like the PL2 position have to be altered as designed around the kits. Plus they are for 3 bolt, but modifications can be done

Modelu

3D printed 2 bolt slide chairs

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Unlike most others , the GWR checkrail chairs were also 2 bolt.

 

[Hayfield]

Unlike most others , the GWR checkrail chairs were also 2 bolt.

As I said it may well be a case of using parts from standard chairs and special chairs, if plastic timbers are used then once set half chairs are welded in place

 

[LittleWestern]

@Hayfield
This was going to be my approach, using 3bolt specials and modifying them. C&L is where I will be buying these 2bolt sprues in bulk (for future projects also)
Thanks for the additional information I will take a look into that as well
Actually, the plan is to use 1.6mm thick ply sheets and cut sleepers out and glue chairs in place. any special chairs I'm sure I can get 3 bolt varients to actually hold rails in place correctly and doctor 2bolt outers and inners in place.

Cheers,

James - LWR

 

[Tony W]

Hi James.
Looking at your track plan, your run round loop is very short.
Before you commit to building anything, it would be a good idea to print out your track plan and place the stock on it to check what you want to do is possible and there is sufficient passing clearance. The facility to do this using the dummy vehicle function is also built into Templot if you know the rolling stock dimensions.
Regards
Tony.

 

[LittleWestern]

Hi James.
Looking at your track plan, your run round loop is very short.
Before you commit to building anything, it would be a good idea to print out your track plan and place the stock on it to check what you want to do is possible and there is sufficient passing clearance. The facility to do this using the dummy vehicle function is also built into Templot if you know the rolling stock dimensions.
Regards
Tony.

Hi @Tony W
This is exactly what I have done for the Industrial sidings and thus far placing my rolling stock and shunter locomotives in-situ and recreating some maneuvers/marking up clearances on each turnout, it seems to be sufficient for what I had planned as it is a micro-layout. I worked out I can fit a rake of 4 Coal/Clay/Oil wagons, in both the straight delivery siding and the run around (I used Ratio Kit Built GWR 5planks and 12ton vans as a measurement) to deliver then shunt, etc which in this space is possible and a challenge.
I will do some tweaking of the track plan after some other considerations and will try to use the Templot Feature moving forward.

Since my space is limited to 1100mm x 300mm, this current setup seems to be the only possible configuration. Considering I have to think about where the entrance to this micro layout is in relation to the BLT I am planning/researching for the future.
Thank you for your consideration.

James - LWR

 

[LittleWestern]

So after a long time, there have been some minor updates in terms of the branch line.
- The books regarding Switch and Crossing Practice, Signaling Practise, and modeling GWR branch lines have been ordered and should make their way to me eventually.
- I made my first small order to C&L Finescale to acquire some lengths of bullhead rails and several packs of GWR 2 Bolt chairs which include some of the special chairs needed for turnout, others are in the basket waiting to be ordered.
- Despite this I have had some issues with the order, I believe C&L is a one-man show and has been traveling and moving a lot recently, this project being a long one, I am hopeful it will be rectified shortly. But being out of the UK doesn't help.

- I will be moving to a slightly bigger room soon and as such will be making some slight adjustments to my thoughts as it comes to the branch line and associated industries.
- I have decided to 'start small' as it were when it comes to hand laying track, I want to start with an industrial section that will be serviced by the BLT I make in the future. Its dimensions are slightly smaller and contain fewer turnouts so this small project should provide some good modeling for the next few months while I hone my skills and get deeper into the hobby after so long.
Thanks for your continued support, knowledge, and patience.

James - LWR

 

[Hayfield]

To all

The thing to remember with C&L is that Phil is a one man band. Normally it takes a few days for the order to be assembled after paying for the items. Also if he is at a show the Friday before and the Monday after is usually spent assembling the stock for the show and Monday is putting it all back

As you have also noticed Phil is finally moving house, looks like there is a last minute hiccup (which seemingly the norm with many house moves these days, I spoke with an estate agent yesterday and our conveyancing system is a mess) I will try and phone Phil over the weekend and update everyone.

Unlike the business changing hands, this move should be far less problematic, added issues are the Perth show and his holiday (I think we are passing each other as we will be in in the North East at the same time Phil is in Yorkshire).

Any issues please PM me but there is not much that I can do if he is closed/away

James

Well done for looking into the trackwork side of your layout so closely.

 

[LittleWestern]

@Hayfield

Thanks for your input, I am very aware he is a one-man-band in this case and aware of the situation, given the length of time, my project will take I'm not too worried about lead time. I have already emailed regarding the concerns about my order so with some luck I will hear back before nothing can be done about it (It will likely come down to simply making a new order anyway)

As for the trackwork, the younger me couldn't care less about how it would look up close and at eye level, I just wanted to run trains! But now I'm fascinated by the workings and the engineering involved, the research, the nuances. To me this along with the manual laying is part of the experience, no matter how long it takes, in the end, I will feel better for saying "I did that and I did it (semi) right"

Cheers for your support,

James

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield

Thanks for your input, I am very aware he is a one-man-band in this case and aware of the situation, given the length of time, my project will take I'm not too worried about lead time. I have already emailed regarding the concerns about my order so with some luck I will hear back before nothing can be done about it (It will likely come down to simply making a new order anyway)

As for the trackwork, the younger me couldn't care less about how it would look up close and at eye level, I just wanted to run trains! But now I'm fascinated by the workings and the engineering involved, the research, the nuances. To me this along with the manual laying is part of the experience, no matter how long it takes, in the end, I will feel better for saying "I did that and I did it (semi) right"

Cheers for your support,

James

James

Just a quick tip, Phil has said he suffers from dyslexia and sometimes suffers with emails, so a quick chat is always helpful if you have either queries or alterations, I will see if I can catch up with him over the weekend and your location will allow him quickly to recognise your order and remind him you hade since altered/queried the order. Having moved not so long ago the house move becomes all consuming and clouds ones memory

Good luck with your modelling

 

[LittleWestern]

James

Just a quick tip, Phil has said he suffers from dyslexia and sometimes suffers with emails, so a quick chat is always helpful if you have either queries or alterations, I will see if I can catch up with him over the weekend and your location will allow him quickly to recognise your order and remind him you hade since altered/queried the order. Having moved not so long ago the house move becomes all consuming and clouds ones memory

Good luck with your modelling

Hi @Hayfield
Thank you for the offer, any help is greatly appreciated. I fully understand his circumstances which I why I haven't pushed the situation
As for modeling, right now I'm 3d designing some jigs and track gauges to aid in frog creation and general track laying. Hopefully I'll be able to post a small update on this soon.

 

[Hayfield]

James

Have you seen Martins 3D printed Vee jigs, they are superb, you could also design one for filing the backs of switches

 

[LittleWestern]

@Hayfield
Until you mentioned it, no? But now I will take a gander!
My hope is to make 16.2mm gauges (like tracksetta) for assistance with straights and curves. and basically anything I need to assist with layout track work.
Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Hayfield]

@Hayfield
Until you mentioned it, no? But now I will take a gander!
My hope is to make 16.2mm gauges (like tracksetta) for assistance with straights and curves. and basically anything I need to assist with layout track work.
Thanks for the suggestion

Its a very simple and effective filing jig

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/rail-filing-jigs-3d-printed.226/

 

[LittleWestern]

So finally a layout update!

I have all the needed materials and tools to start making some track sections.
Based on the Branchline dimensions of 44' 6" 18 sleeper panels used Pre-WW1 by the GWR (and documented here, found in Templot, thank you very much - https://85a.uk/templot/martweb/pdf_files/gwr_track_panels.pdf) Panels will be created using Code 75 Bullhead rail lengths, C&L/Exactoscale 2 Bolt Chairs and plywood timbers.
QUESTION @Martin Wynne - correct me if I am wrong, I see from another Templot topic that S1J chairs were not used pre BR(W) days? Or was this just for turnouts? I checked the scalefour soc but since I am not a member (Yet) I came up short? Also checking some PWay information and drawings also bring me to this conclusion.

I am in the process of designing a track laying jig on TinkerCAD to assist in panel creation, allowing me to simply create and store many panels over time for use now and in the future (in between turnout creation)
The layout itself has changed fairly since previous iterations but is still a simple 3 siding industrial area and a visible stretch of branch in the rear.
I have decided to use the 10ft Old Type GWR turnouts with a crossing angle of 1:6 to be more typical for a yard construction of Pre-WW1 construction, and likely that any changes to rails would likely not have been high priority for the company before grouping. The branchline itself will be of a more modern setup with standard GWR type turnouts used.
Once construction has begun I will document here and likely on my YT panel so construction (and critic) can be shown in real time.

Full Steam Ahead finally!