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Installation issues

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Martin Wynne

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I have created this topic as a place for reports about problems installing Templot on your computer, and possible solutions.

When reporting a problem, please give sufficient information for me to be able to replicate the problem on my systems here.

If I can't replicate a problem here, there is almost nothing I can say to help you, sorry. I just don't have the knowledge of all the computer systems in the world to make a sensible answer. But hopefully there will be others on here who can help you.

A few general points when installing Templot:

1. The default installation is to have Templot installed at C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ . Many hundreds of Templot users have Templot running just fine from that location, so change it only if you know what you are doing. Add that folder to your backup set to be sure your files are backed up.

2. You can however install Templot anywhere you like on your computer, even on a removable USB stick. It will then run on any computer you plug the USB stick into, with all your latest files available. Remember to have the USB stick in place when doing a program update. By default Templot doesn't put anything anywhere on your computer except in its own folder.

(Other programs on Windows don't work that way, but that's nothing to do with me. Don't expect Templot to behave like them.)

3. You must have NO SPACES anywhere in the path to Templot, in any of the folder or file names. Use dashes or underscores instead of spaces. For example E:\HOBBY-STUFF\MODEL-RAILWAYS\TEMPLOT-EM-GAUGE\

4. Don't install Templot in any folder owned by Windows, such as My Documents, Program Files , OneDrive, etc.

5. If you use a 3rd Party anti-virus program instead of relying on Windows Defender, please switch it off while installing Templot. This is the biggest single cause of installation problems. Windows10 does not need such 3rd Party programs interfering with its functioning.

6. The terms of use for Templot require you to install it on a computer which is your own property, not one owned by your workplace. Such computers often have additional restrictions and security settings to prevent programs such as Templot from running properly.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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bordercollie

Member
Location
Australia
Hi
I have just come back to Templot after a month or so. I am unable to open previously saved box file documents. I have tried to update to 234b but after downloading and trying to proceed to run etc. I get message from Microsoftsaying that Templot is not in the microsoft store (see attached screen shot). Whatever I press or do, I can not get past this point. The previous version of Templot that I had been using is still there under the apps but there isn't away to open it for some reason. If I uninstall the current version of Templot and try to install the new version will all of my plans that are in my Box file documents folder still be there or will there all be deleted?

Screenshot (33).png
 
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Martin Wynne

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Enjoy using Templot?
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@bordercollie

Hi,

Which version of Windows is that? Have you recently upgraded to a newer version of Windows?

If you previously had Templot running, there is no need to download it again yourself using the page which I can see behind your screenshot. Simply run your existing version of Templot and it will do the download and update for you.

If the existing copy of Templot won't run for some reason (???), click the Windows Search (bottom left of screen, magnifying glass icon), and type in Templot.

Templot isn't anything to do with Microsoft or the Microsoft Store.

You can probably get past this message by clicking "Change my app recommendation settings", and selecting whatever option is offered to ignore this message.

Any Windows experts here to explain more? I have never seen this message before.

Do not uninstall the existing version of Templot before updating. Installing a new update version does not lose any of your previous Templot files. But you may want to first make a backup copy of the C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES\ folder and \SHAPE-FILES\ folder if you are worried. (Or from wherever else you opted to install Templot.)

p.s. You wrote "I am unable to open previously saved box file documents". Templot files are not Windows Documents, and Templot does not "open" them. Do not save them in Windows own Documents folders or the results are unpredictable. By default Templot saves everything in the C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ folder, and works just fine if you leave it there. Add that folder to your backup set to ensure the files get backed up. The best way to start Templot is to click on the desktop icon, not on one of its files.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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bordercollie

Member
Location
Australia
Hi
I spent some time pushing buttons and all of a sudden it was working with 234b installed.
I was happy using 227b but when I came back it wasn't working. That was why I updated.
I couldn't tell you what I did, but it is now working.
Thanks
Graham
 
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Martin Wynne

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I was happy using 227b but when I came back it wasn't working.
@bordercollie

Hi Graham,

I'm glad you got going again, but it is not supposed to be a battle of wits. :)

Could you explain a bit more what "when I came back it wasn't working" means. Came back from where to where? What happened to the computer in the meantime? Did anyone else use it? Was everything else working ok? What was not working in Templot? When you ran Templot what happened? What did you click? What messages appeared? The actual message words? Thanks.

There was a bug in 227a preventing the automatic update from working, but if you had 227b running you must have got past that.

Folks often post to say something "doesn't work" and then I spend ages trying to decipher every single word they wrote trying to guess between the lines what they actually did and saw on the screen. Without that information it's impossible to know what might have gone wrong or where to look for an answer.

I have three very ordinary working computers here -- an up-to-date Windows 10, and old Windows 7, and a Linux/Ubuntu system.

Before releasing a program update, I try it out on all three and do as much testing as can be fitted into half an hour or so, especially of any new features. An exhaustive test of everything in Templot would take many hours, so nothing would ever get released.

But so often I feel that I'm on a different planet from many computer users in the way I use my computers and what I do with them. One reason I included in the Terms of Use that you must own the computer yourself is because I know computers provided by employers are often hedged about with administrator restrictions, anti-virus firewalls, and security locks. Presumably if you own a computer you don't let your employer mess about with it, but who knows? I know it's impossible to buy an Apple computer because Apple think they still own it, and Microsoft is going the same way.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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bordercollie

Member
Location
Australia
Hi Martin
What I meant was that after I finally finished my design in Mid-March, I did not log back into Templot until last Wednesday.
At this time I was not was able to restore/reload my box files. I hadn't been anywhere physically I was just using a colloquial expression as to indicate I had returned to using Templot.
There had been a major problem with my computer a few weeks ago but everything appeared to working OK. No one else has access to my computer.
I could open Templot but could not reload files to trackpad.
I cannot remember exactly but when I tried to reload in the same way as I had previously done, files would not reload after I pressed the "yes reload ........" button.
No, I did not have 234a as I could not update to it. I did not pursue the problem as the version I had as it was working.
As I have read that uninstalling and reinstalling sometimes fixes some problems I decided to try doing this. My original query related to whether my files would still be saved after I had uninstalled and reinstalled Templot.
As stated above I can not remember the steps I took, however I found that version 234b had been installed. It appears that I needed to login into my computer as administrator to achieve the installation of Templot. I found this out after having problems with another programme. I remember setting up an administrator login as it is apparently a security measure. It was not a problem with the download but with the installation of the programme.
Everything is working how and it was ignorance on my part in not being able to install the programme. I still don't know why I had problem with version 227b(I think) but I have updated and all is well
Best wishes
Graham
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Thread starter
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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files would not reload after I pressed the "yes reload ........" button.
@bordercollie

Hi Graham,

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad you now have Templot running ok. :)

I'm sorry but I still don't know what the problem was -- what actually happened when "files would not reload"? Was there a message? What did it say? Did Templot hang, or crash completely? There is no way in the program code that Templot can fail to load a file and not say anything about it, so I'm a bit puzzled.

The current version of Templot is 2.34.c

When you started a previous version of Templot, you should have seen this:
update_options.png

Did you see it? Did you click "YES"?

Did 2.34.c download and install ok without problems?

Everything works fine here (otherwise I wouldn't release it), so I'm always mystified when folks run into problems. I try to discover what's happening -- but it's nigh on impossible to get a definitive statement of what actually happened.

But I now know that the reason for the screenshot in your first post in this topic is that this Windows drop-down setting was not on "Anywhere":

windows_apps_options.png


I would be interested to know what is the default setting for this, because I have no recollection of ever changing it here. Anyone? If the default is not "Anywhere" I need to add a note about it on the Templot download page.

You also asked me whether un-installing and re-installing Templot would lose your data. The answer is no -- I had to test it to find out because it is many years since I last had any reason to uninstall a copy of Templot.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Paul Boyd

Member
Location
Loughborough, UK
Hi Martin

I would be interested to know what is the default setting for this, because I have no recollection of ever changing it here. Anyone?

I had no idea that setting existed so haven't knowingly changed it, and mine is set to 'Anywhere' so presumably the default (Windows 10, 21H2, 19044.1706). I notice in the options available that 'Microsoft Store only' is the recommended setting so it's possible that some systems may have that set as the default, I guess.

Cheers,
Paul
 
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bordercollie

Member
Location
Australia
Hi
My initial problem was that I couldn't reload. There was no associated message. Nothing happened. I suppose it was what you call hanging. I have now upgraded to 234c. It didn't work the first time but did on second attempt. The first attempt, as was the case with my previous attempts to upgrade to 234b, was that installation got approx. 75% of the the way through then stopped. There was a message. I don't recall what it said but it was to the effect that it couldn't complete the installation.
I did get the message box about upgrading but as it had not worked in the past I pressed no thanks.
I have gone to settings as you have shown. When I type anywhere into the box it tells me there is "no results for anywhere" or "anyone" for that matter. I am using Windows 10 Home and all updates have been installed.
Another thing that I have found odd is that I can reload all of my Templot files that I had made before my 2 month hiatus from my Windows documents . However, the Templot files that I have produced in the last 2 or 3 days can not be found in my Windows documents. I can only retrieve them if type their names into the search box at the bottom left of the desktop. It tells me that the location path is "..... documents/model railways/Templot.Dev/Box-files". I can then press the link which takes me to the last few files. However, it is only these last few files that are there. When I go through the "normal" process of pressing documents/model railways/Templot_Dev/Box files I can retrieve all the box files other than the latest ones even though it follows the same location path. Since starting I have realised that the new files are on C drive and the old ones are on D drive. So, I will need to take it back to the computer repairer as I was told that after my computer problems files would now be saved on D drive which is not the case. So maybe some of my other problems may be due to this.
However, I would like to know if I can change settings to anywhere/anyone in microsoft store.
Best wishes
Graham
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Thread starter
Location
West of the Severn UK
Info
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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@bordercollie

Hi Graham,

Many thanks for your detailed reply.

To change the setting to "Anywhere" you need to click the drop-down arrow, and then click "Anywhere" on the list of options which appears. There is no way to type anything in:

windows_apps_options1.png


To get to that screen, click Start at the bottom-left of the screen and then the cog wheel Settings. Then click Apps on the settings page which appears.

documents/model railways/Templot_Dev/Box files I can retrieve all the box files other than the latest ones even though it follows the same location path

I'm sorry, but I'm utterly lost on this. We need a Windows expert to respond -- anyone? I can't imagine how your files came to be in such a location. What I do notice is that there is a space in the file path between "model" and "railways". Templot won't like that, and you should never, ever, create a file or folder name on your computer which includes a space if you value your sanity. Most of the time it will work fine, and then go wrong when performing some internal copying or backup process. Especially it won't work properly if you try to upload such a file to the internet. If you need a space in a file or folder name, use a dash or an underscore instead: model-railways, model_railways.

For that location to have any meaning, you or someone must have ignored these instructions during the installation:

setup_warning.png


Templot works absolutely fine if you simply leave that box showing C:\TEMPLOT_DEV and click Next.

If you change it, you need to know exactly what you are doing, and even then you can run into problems.

Possibly your computer supplier has changed some Windows setting which I don't know about to prevent the above working.

If it is showing something else in the box, please change it to:

C:\TEMPLOT_DEV

and be careful to get the colon, backslash and underscore exactly like that. And absolutely NO spaces.

I'm sorry, I can't help you further on this, and I'm very fearful that this is the beginning of a whole host of problems for everyone in keeping Templot working as Windows upgrades itself in future. Microsoft are clearly following Apple in trying to control what you can and can't do with your own computer.

Any Windows experts on here?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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bordercollie

Member
Location
Australia
Hi Martin
To start at the beginning. I had done a complete back-up of my computer. Just to see if everything had gone OK, I started a restore. During this process there was an electrical black out. By the time I returned my laptop it had run out of power. On restoring power, my computer would not restart. After about a week I got my computer back. My C drive had been running low on storage and I had to continually delete files etc. to get the computer functioning e.g. I had to do this to install windows updates. So, as my computer was in for repair I asked them if they could expand the storage of the C drive. What they did was to make D drive the main storage and was assured that from then on that files would be saved to D drive. All my previous Templot now ave the address D:\Users\GL\Documents\Model railways\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES. However, what is happening now is that new TEMPLOT Box files are being saved on the C drive i.e. C:\Users\GL\Documents\Model railways\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES. I took it back to the repairer and he wasn't very helpful. He guessed that TEMPLOT still defaults to C and suggested I contact you. How I know that new TEMPLOT are on C drive and that I can access them with a little more button pressing I can live with it as it is.
When going to apps & features the box does contain any options (see attached screen shot).
Looking at your second screen shot I am wondering if when installing TEMPLOT update I should have specified D:\TEMPLOT_DEVS. If it was that simple I don't know why the computer repairer couldn't have worked that out. I am not keen on trying to uninstall and re-install as I would be dead scared of loosing my near complete plan.
Best Wishes
Graham
Screenshot (34).png
 

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AndyB

Member
As previously stated I am no expert :)

I run Templot on two Windows machines (one in the office and the other in my workshop). One is running Windows 10 and the other Windows 11. They are both networked to a TrueNAS server but I don't try to run Templot from files on the server. They are always on the C drive in the standard Templot file structure. If I need to work on a Templot file from either machine I copy it to the server then copy it to the other machine.

I have not experienced any problems running Templot under Windows 10 or 11. If I'm feeling adventurous I might try running Templot using files on the server rather than the local drive but not before I make some backups.
 
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Martin Wynne

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Thread starter
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Enjoy using Templot?
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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

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what is happening now is that new TEMPLOT Box files are being saved on the C drive i.e. C:\Users\GL\Documents\Model railways\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES.
@bordercollie

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

If Templot is working ok in that location I would suggest leaving it there.

How it came to be there I will leave for others to explain, because it is beyond me. Others will be able to say whether your data will survive Windows upgrades and restarts in that location. My day-to-day knowledge of Windows is very limited -- I use the Windows API to program Templot, but beyond that I barely use Windows at all.

It is a mystery to me how it can be working ok, because you have a space in the folder name \Model railways\ which will wreck the path references in Templot, but if it is working so be it.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
Thread starter
Location
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Enjoy using Templot?
Thanks.

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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Hi Simon,

Did you use the automatic update, or download it manually?

What is the earlier version you are using ok? There were very few changes in 234d from 234c. Nothing changed in the installer.

Are you in Crossover on a Mac or on Linux? Any recent changes to your system? Antivirus or similar?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,

I installed automatically, using crossover on a Mac.
I had a copy of 233c on my hard drive, and used that. I had previously used Templot on Sunday 5 June, with whatever was currently up to date then.
Haven’t changed anything else, and my VPN is set to use a UK server: this has not caused any problems before.
As I said, it downloaded and installed ok, but then does nothing when I try to run it.

Simpn
 
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Martin Wynne

Admin
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Enjoy using Templot?
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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add
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@Simon Dunkley

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply.

If it was working on 5th June, that would have been 234c. There is very little difference between 234c and 234d, so if one installed ok, so should the other. Unless something else has changed on your Mac? Have you run out of disk space?

If Templot installed but won't start, it may be a problem with the desktop shortcut icon. Check that you haven't now got two of them, and only one is working. Try going to C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ (or wherever else you installed Templot) and double-clicking on the templot_2.exe program file. Or right-click on it and then Run as administrator. Or right-click on it and create a new shortcut. Then drag the shortcut onto the desktop.

I have now re-tested 234d on my three systems here -- Windows10, Windows7, and Ubuntu/Linux+CrossOver/Wine. All installed and updated fine.

Which means I'm sorry, there isn't anything else I can say to help you. If I can't replicate a problem here, I just don't have enough knowledge of other systems to know what might be wrong. Especially I know nothing at all about Mac computers. Hopefully there is someone else on here who can help.



I have moved these posts, and any other similar ones, to this separate topic, so that installation issues don't get mixed up with information about the actual update.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Sorry for the long delay: life sometimes gets in the way of playing with Templot!

I have noticed that Templot is installing the updates into a new folder, not Templot_dev, but one related to the release, despite me following the defaults. Templot2 is my previous installation, and when I ran the automatic update from 2.34c to 2.34d, that's where the installation went.
I can also install into a new folder. It runs from there, but not in my chosen directory.
Screenshot 2022-06-20 at 22.47.23.png
 
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