Kyle MPD track layout

[Julian Roberts]

Hello

I've posted this on the Scalefour Forum, though it's in a way more relevant to put it here.

I wonder if I could ask any of you chaps on this Forum who gave me such a lot of help what you think of the latest state of play on this project. The issue being that I redesigned the single slip, thus needing to alter the geometry design of the surrounding tracks. The single slip is now made, and cannot be altered, and its position on the trackplan is also fixed, but adjusting the surrounding areas highlighted in yellow below has caused me a lot of trouble!

So my question is whether these areas are put together properly in Templot, whether I have used the 'make simple link' and 'transition' functions correctly on the yellow highlighted sections. (The timbering is all over the place as I'd got it perfect for a version that I then realised was no good! Templot has done funny things with the altered sleepering when using those functions.)

I also include some photos that I've used for reference.

By the way I would have added this to my previous Kyle thread but I couldn't find it - this is the first time I've posted since the new design website was created! - sorry if I haven't searched hard enough...

 

[Phil O]

Hi Julian,

I think it would be helpful if you could attach the box file, as I'm unable to determine exactly what is going on and others will probably have the same problem.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Julian,

I think it would be helpful if you could attach the box file, as I'm unable to determine exactly what is going on and others will probably have the same problem.

Hi Phil,

Are you not seeing the box file icon? (What device are you using?-- we had a forum update recently.)

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

p.s.

I have now edited Julian's post to make the box file attachment more visible.

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

By the way I would have added this to my previous Kyle thread but I couldn't find it - this is the first time I've posted since the new design website was created! - sorry if I haven't searched hard enough...

@Julian Roberts

Hi Julian,

Your previous Kyle topic is here:

https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3685.php

But you can't add to it, you can only link to it, because it was on the old forum.

To find it, use the big Search link at the very top-right of this page.

cheers.

Martin.

 

[Julian Roberts]

Hi Phil,

Are you not seeing the box file icon? (What device are you using?-- we had a forum update recently.)

View attachment 2796

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Julian Roberts]

Thanks Martin and Phil. By the way when I made my previous post, I was a bit baffled how to actually post it, as there wasn't a button saying Send or Submit, but there was still a button "Start New Topic", and that did the job.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Templot seems to have renamed it but I think that is what you are after.

 

[Daifly]

p.s.

I have now edited Julian's post to make the box file attachment more visible.

Martin.

Thanks for doing that. Pictures posted as thumbnails are a PITA as you can't easily scroll back and forth when viewing.
Dave

 

[Martin Wynne]

Thanks Martin and Phil. By the way when I made my previous post, I was a bit baffled how to actually post it, as there wasn't a button saying Send or Submit, but there was still a button "Start New Topic", and that did the job.

Hi Julian,

???

When replying to a topic, the button says Post reply:

By definition you can't reply to a non-existing topic, so the button says Start new topic instead.

Am I missing something that needs fixing? I'm constantly haunted by the thought that what appears on my computer screen must be completely different from what appears on everyone else's. Often I can't make out what someone is asking about. For example you asked about searching for your old topic, despite the Search link being in the largest text on the whole page. Is it not showing on your screen? Which device/browser are you using?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

I think it was very slightly out of alignment, difficult to do sometimes.

 

[Martin Wynne]

I think it was very slightly out of alignment, difficult to do sometimes.

What was?

I give up for today. I'll try again tomorrow.

Martin.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

I think the problem arises when you want to join two parts of a plan together with a joining piece of track. Having attached it to the end, how do you line up with the other and get the curve right?
I do seem to remember that you offered a solution but I think that possibly involved grouping and moving to suit in some way, my memory fails me. However it isn't always desirable or easy/possible to do that. What I did was move and join the catch point to the slip, then split the approach to the catchpoint and adjusted the curve to about where it should be then the adjacent turnout. Put the plain track peg on the end of the track nearest the turnout and then the notch. Then on the turnout, the peg on MVJP and adjusted everything so that it to lined up with the notch, well at least visually anyway. As I said, tricky to do unless you move a whole section.

If there is an easy way to do it without involving the group move I'd like to know it please. I think it would be good if you could select the two ends and insert a joining piece of track much like joining two points together in a conventional CAD program.

 

[Julian Roberts]

Hi Martin and Stephen

Martin, sorry I can't remember what I did when looking to add to my previous topic, but as you say, I couldn't have done anyway. Yes I see the big box Search! I think this browser is AVG if that makes any sense, but I don't know much about computers. Regarding posting, yes of course there is "post reply" just to the right here, and of course you can't reply to a non-existent topic, but when making the original post I had already used "Start New Topic" in order to write the post. There being no "Submit" or "Post" button I copied what I'd written before I hit "Start New Topic" again as I thought it might take me back to the start of a blank page again. Anyway it's fine, I know what to do now. On the new site it is much easier to attach photos to a post.

Stephen thanks for that. I forgot to say that all the turnouts etc are made except the catchpoint so I don't want to alter them. I think you haven't altered the turnout to the left of the catchpoint though. You said

I think the problem arises when you want to join two parts of a plan together with a joining piece of track. Having attached it to the end, how do you line up with the other and get the curve right?

Exactly - but I have used the Transition (on the Up Main line, the top one) and Make Simple Link functions (on the Down Main line and Engine Shed road with catchpoint) and basically wanted to check I had done so correctly, and that things line up as they should.

I think you have just played around with the bit of track with the catchpoint between the slip and the next turnout to the left, and have not altered that turnout? That bit of track is slightly different and looks good - thanks for leaving the catchpoint the same length as I adjusted that to resemble the photo.

Actually I wonder whether if there are any faults with the plan they are so tiny as to be not worth correcting, as it is unlikely I can lay track to that degree of accuracy.

Cheers
Julian

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,
I haven't looked at the rest of the plan though

 

[Phil O]

Hi Phil,

Are you not seeing the box file icon? (What device are you using?-- we had a forum update recently.)

View attachment 2796

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

Yes I could see it, but I didn't realise that it was the box file, I thought it was another picture that had failed to open correctly and I didn't click on it.

 

[Martin Wynne]

If there is an easy way to do it without involving the group move I'd like to know it please.

@Stephen Freeman

Hi Stephen,

See tutorial here:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/make_transition_link.php

and general notes here:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/link_existing.php

I think it would be good if you could select the two ends and insert a joining piece of track much like joining two points together in a conventional CAD program.

Templot isn't a CAD program, conventional or otherwise.

What you suggest isn't possible, because there are numerous alignments which might fit, and Templot has no means of knowing which one you want. Also most CAD programs would insert a Bezier curve for such links, which isn't prototypical for railway track.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

but when making the original post I had already used "Start New Topic" in order to write the post. There being no "Submit" or "Post" button I copied what I'd written before I hit "Start New Topic" again as I thought it might take me back to the start of a blank page again.

@Julian Roberts

Hi Julian,

I take your point.

In fact, the first button was "Start new topic ..." with the 3-dot ellipsis (meaning further input from you will be required) and the submission button was "Start new topic" without an ellipsis (meaning no further action will be required).

However, I suspect that is a distinction lost on great swathes of computer users (and also one which is often not applied consistently, although I do try hard within Templot).

I have now changed it, so that "Start new topic ..." opens the posting editor for the purpose, and the submission button says "Post new topic".

Making a change such as that is half an hour's work in this new forum software, as it can mean editing several page and language templates. I have made many such changes already, although I know there are many more which I could make. I'm reluctant to spend too much time on it because there is always a risk that the changes will be lost in a future software upgrade.

It's not made any easier by my insistence on changing the word "thread" to "topic" throughout. Partly for compatibility with the old forum, but mainly for the sheer logic of the situation -- you cannot have a "thread" with only a single post. It would be like having a "chain" with only one link -- it doesn't make sense. A topic can only be called a "thread" when someone has replied to the first post, referencing the same subject. I have tried to make this point on the XenForo users forum, but they are not having it -- the term "thread" is firmly embedded within the entire XenForo software.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Stephen Freeman]

@Stephen Freeman

Hi Stephen,

See tutorial here:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/make_transition_link.php

and general notes here:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/link_existing.php



Templot isn't a CAD program, conventional or otherwise.

What you suggest isn't possible, because there are numerous alignments which might fit, and Templot has no means of knowing which one you want. Also most CAD programs would insert a Bezier curve for such links, which isn't prototypical for railway track.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi,
I assumed/knew that, but doesn't stop me from wishing, c'est la vie.

 

[Julian Roberts]

Hi Martin

I didn't mention all that with the idea you ought to change anything. But I'm sure you didn't change it just to suit me - well I hope not! I mentioned it because if I were even more of a novice I might not have posted anything at all. Hopefully that change will benefit a worthwhile (relative to the half hour you spent on it) number of potential Templot contributors. My understanding of anything to do with computers is as tiny as some of my nearest and dearest relations' understanding of a motor car. I have to repress my seething irritation when their driving technique clearly demonstrates a lack of mechanical sympathy! No doubt you have to similarly act patiently with people like me! I do apologize if so! (no need to comment!)

Reverting to the subject of my original post, I just want to emphasize I don't want an absolutely perfect plan if the difference between perfection and what I have made is not worth worrying about, given that placing rails that at the bottom are >2mm above the drawing, so it can only be a best guess that they are perfectly aligned with it. I think the plan I have put here is pretty much as good as it needs to be (though Stephen's alteration has an interesting feature so I might use it instead) but wanted to check I hadn't made any howlers using the Transition and Make Link functions.

For what it's worth I attach the background map, though with the many slight rotations I've done it has lost clarity. I wonder if the alignment of the bit of track with the catchpoint may have altered over the years as the check rail does not appear in more recent photos. Given the position of the single slip and the turnout referred to above is fixed, I don't think it's possible to follow the map any more exactly

Cheers
Julian

 

[Martin Wynne]

@Julian Roberts

Hi Julian,

I have realigned your yellow tracks with single long templates instead of multiple short ones.

I have recaptured your map, and applied Templot's clarity improvement functions to it.

The A-7.5 turnout was very unlikely in a running line, I have changed it to B-6.63 for a better match to the slip. That's also an unlikely size, as is the 1:7.83 slip, but apparently that can't be changed. The turnout doesn't remotely match the map -- I'm willing to bet it's a 1:8 slip and B-8 turnout, or maybe both 1:7.5. I assume your design is to fit within the marked baseboard edge.

Looking at the photos, I think the set of catch points was closer to the running line than you had it.

Files attached. No attempt to fix the timbering -- over to you.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Julian Roberts]

Hi Martin Thanks so much, you've done much more than I meant to ask for! I knew you had improved the clarity of maps when rotating but hadn't realised it could be done retrospectively - did you describe how to do that somewhere?

The only problem is the A 7.5 turnout, as I've actually made it! (all the turnouts are made). Yes it's totally unprototypical but it is offstage - the bridge will be the scenic edge, so this turnout saves space compared with what was really there. Anyway I think it fits in perfectly with your work all the same!! - file attached.

I realise I should have put the slip redesign with these associated linking tracks onto this Forum for scrutiny before going ahead and making it. A 1 in 8 angle might have made things easier. Anyway, thanks again so much, I think this is ready to get down on wood now.

Cheers
Julian