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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

3D printers - messin' with resin

Quick reply >
Hi Martin,
My bad, trying to multi task I did mean EM-SF however I thought EM could run with some of the RTR stuff,
as long as the wheel profile was close to EMS standards therefore EM-SF would be the same
is that not the case?
cheers
Phil
 
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Hi Martin,
My bad, trying to multi task I did mean EM-SF however I thought EM could run with some of the RTR stuff,
as long as the wheel profile was close to EMS standards therefore EM-SF would be the same
is that not the case?
cheers
Phil
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

"RTR wheels" is taken to mean the NMRA RP25/110 standard. Those are the wheels manufactured in bulk in the Far East and fitted to almost all RTR models. They have flanges nominally 0.8mm thick, and consequently won't run through 0.8mm flangeways -- it needs a clearance of at least 0.1mm.

Quality control on those wheels is definitely iffy and you can find batches of models with thinner flanges which might be found to work ok on EM-SF. Some RTR manufacturers may be providing or specifying finer wheel standards, but it is a minefield of misinformation to find any definitive quoted standards, and risky to announce that any particular RTR model does or doesn't run through 0.8mm flangeways.

If you want to run RTR wheels on something wider than 00 I suggest standard EM is as fine as you can go, and to work reliably they should be set to 16.4mm back-to-back. I don't know of any such back-to-back gauges available.

EM-SF looks better than standard EM (the flangeway is closer to P4 than to standard EM), but you can't expect to run RTR wheels on it -- stick to kit wheels with flanges 0.6mm thick. Even Markits/Romford at 0.7mm flanges are marginal.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
Thanks was not aware of that, looks like all my RTR wheels will need to go to the reprofiles workshop as well, even more reason for the CNC mod kit to my Unimat 3. :)
cheers
Phil
 
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Hi Martin,
Thanks was not aware of that, looks like all my RTR wheels will need to go to the reprofiles workshop as well, even more reason for the CNC mod kit to my Unimat 3. :)
cheers
Phil
Phil,
I am one of those who are 'into' EM-SF although there has been no building progress for a good while for various reasons.

It isn't hard to bring the wider flanges of RTR locomotive stock down to something that will run on EM-SF with the help of your lathe and it doesn't really need CNC to do it. You don't need to thin down the the full diameter of the wheel rear - just the bit that gets near the track to satisfy the 0.8mm flangeways. You will still have wheels that look thicker than modern ones from Gibson etc and you may encounter issues with space with using wheels that are the original width and spaced further apart.

Rob
 
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OK the Alkaid has arrived, not a lot I can do with it at the moment (perhaps tomorrow), but I have been investigating 3d in Turbocad (my version is 2015 deluxe). I think I can do what I want in the non trackwork area (managed to create a cylinder and see I can save as a stl) but is there any book I can obtain for more info?

I have only used it in 2d previously.
 
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@Stephen Freeman

Hi Stephen,

I also have TurboCAD Deluxe 2015. I use it for 2D work, but in 3D I use it only as a viewer for the Templot DXF files.

For actual 3D design work I prefer DesignSpark Mechanical (DSM), which is a version of SpaceClaim re-badged by RS. It has a different way of working from TurboCAD which I prefer.

The free DSM Explorer version 6 will export only in STL format, but that is all you need for 3D printing. If you did need some other format you could use TurboCAD as a converter.

It's entirely free, and a proper Windows executable program which runs on your computer, not online. You own your files and know where they are. You can use it for commercial work, unlike Fusion360.

For an example of models designed in DSM and printed on a Mars 2 (the Alkaid is a clone of that and would produce similar results), see:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/17410...here-to-start/?do=findComment&comment=4926660

This DSM video is several years old, but it is all still the same:




Lots of DSM tutorials available:

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/learn-designspark-mechanical

Download:

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-download-and-installation

cheers,

Martin.
 
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I have downloaded DSM (not at all straightforward imho)

Hi Stephen,

You need an RS account first, in which case it's then simple to download DSM.

It's easy to create an RS account if you don't have one. Lots of modellers do have one -- RS is a useful source of model engineering materials and electrical stuff.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Unfortunately, my normal RS account uses an email address not on the PC I was using at the time.

It does seem a bit of a faff if you have to log in each time you want to use it though if that is the norm.
 
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It does seem a bit of a faff if you have to log in each time you want to use it though if that is the norm.

Hi Stephen,

I'm not aware of any faff involved. It starts up logging in to my account without me doing anything about it or even knowing that it's doing it.

Templot does the same thing of connecting to a web site on startup, and you only become aware of it if the connection fails. Lots of software is the same. Although in Templot's case nothing is sent to the web site, it is only a one-way fetch of data.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Guys,
I too decided to download DSM just to try it out, having first made an account, the problem for me is the DSM software does not recognize my new account, which is strange because its there, and I have already changing the password with no issue, but still no success getting into DSM.
I wonder if its because on my account I put down my location as NZ?

Martin,
am I right in thinking DSM can't import DXF files? Even in the 2D sketch area.
cheers,
Phil
 
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am I right in thinking DSM can't import DXF files? Even in the 2D sketch area
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Not in the free Explorer version. The Creator subscription version can. Don't bother with the more expensive Engineer version, it is only for electronics.

For editing 2D DXF files, try Inkscape (free).

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Stephen,

I'm not aware of any faff involved. It starts up logging in to my account without me doing anything about it or even knowing that it's doing it.

Templot does the same thing of connecting to a web site on startup, and you only become aware of it if the connection fails. Lots of software is the same. Although in Templot's case nothing is sent to the web site, it is only a one-way fetch of data.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi,
It appears the login only happens the first time, thereafter no issue.
I will try and have a play l;ater today on my main pc
 
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I see that glue sticks of the PVP type are recommended, though I'm not sure I will need it, as I have installed a flexible magnetic plate but if it is, will ordinary glue sticks work as well? I ask as I have a near boxfull of QConnect ones but not sure they would be suitable. I did get them for another purpose I should add.
 
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I see that glue sticks of the PVP type are recommended, though I'm not sure I will need it, as I have installed a flexible magnetic plate but if it is, will ordinary glue sticks work as well? I ask as I have a near boxfull of QConnect ones but not sure they would be suitable. I did get them for another purpose I should add.
@Stephen Freeman

Hi Stephen,

Ordinary glue sticks used to be PVP, but have since changed to non-toxic environmentally-friendly versions which are no good at all for 3D printing.

If you have old stock, you could try them.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Stephen

Stephen I followed Martins advice about using a glass build plate, as the glass had a longer lead time for a shorter period I used the magnetic metal plate supplied, it worked OK and after a lot of trial and error I got it flattish. The glass plate is so much better in that its quick and easy to level and now I have no need to check its still level, its far superior in all areas. My experience is with FDM not resin
 
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Hi John,
The problem is that until I get the printer (if i get the printer) I wont know what size the bed is, as it depends what actual printer or parts of printer they send me.
could be either 200 * 200 or 210 * 210
Steve
 
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Late in on this but a user of DSM as well for an idea of what I have done so far have a look at my thread on Rmweb. The thread is in the 3D section and is called “Oh for a good thump or my journey into 3D”. It has been updated today with a view of my first stab at a station building in Sussex.

Keith
 
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Hello Martin

I am currently experimenting with Elegoo 8K water washable resin. It has taken ages to find my settings but my current ones are working well for the chairs and sleepers. I can remove the chair plugs from the build plate with my fingers. I do have a problem with rafts which still stick like sh** However the sleepers break away easily while the raft is still attached to the plate.

I have a litre of Siraya FNG to try next but that will mean going back to life shortening pollution.

I thought I would try the Anycubic ABS water washable that you recommended next. It is nice to work in clean air.

I started on the Phrozen mini 8K with the Phrozen 8K resin but since then they have also introduced a water washable version.

Regards
John Walker
 
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I am currently experimenting with Elegoo 8K water washable resin.
@John Walker

Hi John,

Looking at the Elegoo web site for that, they say "Excellent dimension tolerance and low shrinkage ensure high-precision printed models with incredibly smooth surface finishes, fine details, and accurate dimensions".

It's noticeable that there is no mention of strength or toughness or suitability for engineering applications.

The standard resins are known to be quite brittle -- if you try the ABS-Like resins I think you will notice a significant difference and that they are far more suitable for track chairs. The rafts are easily removed from the build plate with a window scraper while they are still soft and before UV curing.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi John,
I am currently experimenting with Elegoo 8K water washable resin
FYI I started to go down that route with my local supplier, who is an Elegoo agent and does stock that resin, however on his recommendation I was told to say with the Elegoo ABS like for what I am doing. In his opinion most water washables are still to brittle.
The exception he was aware of was the Any cubic V2 water washable, which he called a water washable ABS like product. I believed him simply because he did not sell that brand, but openly said if I want water washable that's the way to go.
please post your results if you are trying other brand options.
Cheers
Phil,
 
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@Phil G

Hi Phil,

There are some free STL files for resin-printed wagons from Jonathan Duffett at:

https://www.thingiverse.com/ironmink/designs


haddock_thingiverse.png


cheers,

Martin
 
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Hi Martin,
Thanks will check that out I am drawing up some 1907 RCH wagons right now 14"6 and 15 foot overhead stocks so will be interesting to see how he has gone about doing this.
cheers
Phil,
 
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message ref: 10076
Hello Martin

I am currently experimenting with Elegoo 8K water washable resin. It has taken ages to find my settings but my current ones are working well for the chairs and sleepers. I can remove the chair plugs from the build plate with my fingers. I do have a problem with rafts which still stick like sh** However the sleepers break away easily while the raft is still attached to the plate.

I have a litre of Siraya FNG to try next but that will mean going back to life shortening pollution.

I thought I would try the Anycubic ABS water washable that you recommended next. It is nice to work in clean air.

I started on the Phrozen mini 8K with the Phrozen 8K resin but since then they have also introduced a water washable version.

Regards
John Walker
 
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I'd been thinking of getting a resin printer for a while, and I've also been following the development of Templot plug track with interest.

The low cost and good reports of the Alkaid printer finally persuaded me, and I have ordered one.

I also ordered some of the Anycubic "ABS Like" water washable resin, which seems to have good reports and I followed the link earlier in this thread to the Amazon posting.

Now I suspect Anycubic may have sent me the wrong resin.

The Amazon listing, and he details of my order, clearly say "Water washable" and the picture of the bottle on the Amazon website clearly has "Water wash" on it:


washable resin bottle.png



However, what I have received does not say "water-wash" on the label, and in fact on the instructions on the back of the label it says "Best washed with 95% ethanol/isopropyl alcohol".

1708350515795.png


Not being an expert of such resins, I'm not sure myself, but does anyone know if that is actually the same stuff as that with "water-wash" on the label, or have they mis-shipped it and do I need to do a return with Amazon?

Thanks for any advice.

Pete
 
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I'd been thinking of getting a resin printer for a while, and I've also been following the development of Templot plug track with interest.

The low cost and good reports of the Alkaid printer finally persuaded me, and I have ordered one.

I also ordered some of the Anycubic "ABS Like" water washable resin, which seems to have good reports and I followed the link earlier in this thread to the Amazon posting.

Now I suspect Anycubic may have sent me the wrong resin.

The Amazon listing, and he details of my order, clearly say "Water washable" and the picture of the bottle on the Amazon website clearly has "Water wash" on it:


View attachment 8679


However, what I have received does not say "water-wash" on the label, and in fact on the instructions on the back of the label it says "Best washed with 95% ethanol/isopropyl alcohol".

View attachment 8680

Not being an expert of such resins, I'm not sure myself, but does anyone know if that is actually the same stuff as that with "water-wash" on the label, or have they mis-shipped it and do I need to do a return with Amazon?

Thanks for any advice.

Pete
@PeteB

Hi Pete,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

That's not water-washable. You can use it on the Alkaid printer, but you will need to wash the prints in IPA.

The water-washable V2 resins are on this Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C7BFQZ2C

It's confusing, because the non-water-washable Pro and water-washable V2 colours are mixed up on the same page. Make sure what you are ordering is marked V2. The one we have been using is marked Grey V2:

amazon_grey_v2.png

cheers,​
Martin.​
 
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Thanks for the clarification,Martin, that is exactly the one I did order from that very page, so it looks like they have mis-shipped it. The one I have received is Grey V2, but not the water washable version. So I shall do the return to Amazon now, see if they will replace, or if they want to refund I'll have another go at ordering it.

This was my order confirmation, exactly the same one at the same price that you highlighted:

1708597400699.png
 
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.
Has anyone tried putting their chairs in boiling water?

While boiling an egg for lunch it seemed the obvious thing to do. :)

They get quite soft, and a curled raft was easily straightened or even curled back the other way. Then cooled under the cold tap and they are back to normal strength. And possibly much greater strength. After installing a few in a timbering base I found them very difficult to break. It also seemed the clip-fit tangs were stronger and needed a bit more force to clip the chairs into place. There might be a case for making the tangs a bit thinner.

I was minded to try it after seeing this:




Other options might be the oven, under the grill, in the microwave, in an air fryer. But boiling water is obviously the safest and easiest.

I already knew that the chairs would resist soldering temperatures when soldering vee rails in situ and switch blade sliders. I now know not to apply any force with the iron when doing so (no actual need to) because the chairs could get deformed in the process while hot.

It needs more experiment and some detailed measurements, but eating the egg gained a higher priority. :)

Martin.
 
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Now this opens up a whole new set of questions. Was it hard boiled or soft? However this does bring up the question of how long do you boil the resin. Was the raft put into cold water and then bought to the boil or straight into boiling water and for how long. More experimental eggs I think.

Keith
 
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.
Has anyone tried putting their chairs in boiling water?

While boiling an egg for lunch it seemed the obvious thing to do. :)

They get quite soft, and a curled raft was easily straightened or even curled back the other way. Then cooled under the cold tap and they are back to normal strength. And possibly much greater strength. After installing a few in a timbering base I found them very difficult to break. It also seemed the clip-fit tangs were stronger and needed a bit more force to clip the chairs into place. There might be a case for making the tangs a bit thinner.

I was minded to try it after seeing this:




Other options might be the oven, under the grill, in the microwave, in an air fryer. But boiling water is obviously the safest and easiest.

I already knew that the chairs would resist soldering temperatures when soldering vee rails in situ and switch blade sliders. I now know not to apply any force with the iron when doing so (no actual need to) because the chairs could get deformed in the process while hot.

It needs more experiment and some detailed measurements, but eating the egg gained a higher priority. :)

Martin.


Hi Martin,

I can't see anything after " I was minded to try it after seeing this: " there's a huge gap and then " other options might be the oven, etc etc.

Using Firefox browser on an android tablet.
 
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Hi Martin,

I can't see anything after " I was minded to try it after seeing this: " there's a huge gap and then " other options might be the oven, etc etc.

Using Firefox browser on an android tablet.
@Phil O

Hi Phil,

I don't know anything about Android tablets, but you should be seeing a YouTube video. Try clicking this link instead:

Heat curing of resin

I often embed YouTube videos on here -- do you never see them? If there is a big white space, perhaps you need to click or tap on it? Or wait for it to load if using mobile broadband?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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While boiling an egg for lunch it seemed the obvious thing to do. :)
Hi Martin,
I am assuming this comment was meant as a joke.

Has anyone tried putting their chairs in boiling water?

There is however a more serious side to the simple idea of heating "cured prints in water" because the water is quite easy to control the temp.

Firstly I have no objection to the Youtube video, it was very interesting and made total sense from a chemistry perspective. It should be noted however, he was talking about non water washable resins.

Broadly speaking its true, heating and or annealing most polymers will impact there final properties. In the case of light reacted polymers such as the resins we use, the Monomers normally Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen compounds, and the oligomers do react in the presence of Photo-initiators. when he says connect and form links, its correct name is crosslinking.

Now here is the important bit, not all the Monomers and Oligomers will crosslink fully, some will remain mobile. (this is by design and gives a solid object a degree of initial flexing). That is exactly what he is manipulating by heating.
A very good way to think about this is, to think of glass as a substance, which has a very high level of crosslinking (at extreme temperatures). Resulting in strong, but very brittle properties. Generally as you toughen the tensile strength of something you normally also make it more brittle.

Back to resins, if the resin used is water based, it opens up a new potential issue. In that the resin is designed to interact with water. It will also mean at raised temperatures when still in presence of water, there will be some leaching of the resin at a chemical level out of the solid object.

Therefore if you wish to use water a heat medium, you must also assume the water that was used will have a level of resin residue contamination.

My advise would therefore be, to treat any water used to heat any parts, in exactly the same way you would the water you have rinsed the parts in.

I am not suggesting that the level of contamination will be the same, clearly it will be less, its is however unlikely it will have lessened to what would be considered a safe condition.

I would also in no way then use the same pan for example, to cook anything after using it to heat resin printed parts. If you go down this path ensure the pan used is only used for this purpose going forward.

Hear endeth today's sermon on chemical safety.
cheers
Phil
 
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Hear endeth today's sermon on chemical safety.
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Many thanks for that.

After removing the egg I poured the boiling water over the chairs in a separate container. I didn't boil them both together! I was thinking that some chemical from the resin might penetrate through the eggshell. I admit to not giving much thought to the water afterwards, and the container was an old jar from the workshop.

I did wonder if the extra strength might mean it was more brittle, but I couldn't detect any such. And the fact that it was soft and pliable when hot suggested that would not be the case.

But lots of experimenting still to do. For those making tiny chairs in 3mm and 2mm scale this might be a useful process to try.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
Softening during the heating process is very normal, the elevated temperature tends to partly rearrange or at least mobilizes more of the crosslinking whilst still hot. Hence a notable softness. Glass is again a perfect extreme example.

You often see a similar thing in the presence of solvents as well, sometimes the surface may even revert to a liquid state until the solvent has gone (evaporated or absorbed/reacted) depending on the chemistry and the solvent used.

The video did imply he had seen some increase in tensile strength at the expense of slightly increased brittleness, It will be temperature related, as to some extent they don't change in a directly linear manor. As you say experimentation will be required, which as long as done safely. I am certainly not saying that should not happen.

There may even be scope for heating to a slightly softer state, to aid sliding the chairs down the rails for example. In as you say scales that may make that the only option. Experimentation would reveal if once cooled, that was indeed a good idea.
cheers
Phil,
 
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