Messin' With Resin - 3D printed track

[AndyB]

Here it is for TC2017

 

[Martin Wynne]

This one:

 

[Martin Wynne]

Here it is for TC2017

Same message -- "no filter".

Is this a suitable time to mention that Templot still opens BOX files right back to 1999?

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

Here's the dxf R14 version. Unfortunately one of the blocks has disappeared when I open the dxf in TC

 

[Martin Wynne]

@AndyB

Thanks Andy. I can open that one and it looks good in TurboCAD (apart from the missing keys):

Unfortunately the file format includes 3D stuff of which I have no understanding at all. It's essential that I can export STL files from Templot in addition to the DXF, so that folks can print directly from Templot. I might be able to find some open-source Pascal code to convert from R14 to STL, but I'm not hopeful.

I keep feeling that I'm in a different 3D printing world from everyone else? I can create 3D stuff programmatically and put it in a DXF, and also now in an STL:

And export it from Templot, and use it in Chitubox and Simplify3D for resin and filament printing.

But when it comes to being compatible with what anyone else is doing in Fusion360, AutoCad, etc., I'm completely lost and nothing I do seems remotely compatible. I can't even follow all the terminology. It must be my age.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

Ah yes, the keys. A tiny platelayer will be along presently to bash them in

I'm using SMP rail so there would have to be a variety of different keys for different rail profiles. I plan to print the crossing without keys then muck about with chair designs to get the best fit. But before that I have to complete my fume cabinet and that's unlikely to happen soon because we are about to break high temperature records here.

Remember my U-channel rail heads? I have not given up on that idea. It might make sense to use that technique for the "frog". A sort of poor man's version of Wayne's cast NS version . The advantage is it should work for any old crossing angle I can generate. It could also simplify check-rail construction although I don't see why they can't be simply printed along with everything else.

I think I'm going to tweak the seat model a bit. Probably going a bit overboard but I'd like to see a filet between the seat and the baseplate.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[AndyB]

But when it comes to being compatible with what anyone else is doing in Fusion360, AutoCad, etc., I'm completely lost and nothing I do seems remotely compatible. I can't even follow all the terminology. It must be my age.

Hi Martin,

I'm fairly confident you will not agree with me but in my not entirely humble opinion you are building a trap for yourself by trying to go straight from Templot to stl. I think it would be a much better investment of your time if you were to create methods that allowed Templot users to add their own chair/clip/spike designs to Templot 2-D designs.

There are all kinds of CAD products already available and anyone can create chair models if they are willing to put in a little bit of effort. Adding all of that to Templot is simply reinventing a wheel that already exists in many forms. And that's not to mention the support nightmare you are creating for yourself. I know you'll say you won't support it but you and I both know damn well you will try to.

It ain't worth it!

I hope you realize I am saying this because I have your best interests at heart.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Martin Wynne]

I think it would be a much better investment of your time if you were to create methods that allowed Templot users to add their own chair/clip/spike designs to Templot 2-D designs.

@AndyB

Hi Andy,

Yes, that will be possible. Provided users can specify such details as overall chair base dimensions, corner radii, number of screws/bolts, the bolt centres, height of jaws, width of ribs, etc.

For more complex chairs, the DXF export will include the block locations so that anyone can add or replace their own chair designs in a CAD program if they wish to and are able.

There are all kinds of CAD products already available and anyone can create chair models if they are willing to put in a little bit of effort.

I can't. I've tried. I spent several hours in Fusion360 and got absolutely nowhere. The basics are easy -- draw a rectangle, extrude it to a cube, put a slot in one side. Make another. Merge them together. But represent a GWR L1 Bridge Chair? Forget it. I can write the code faster.

I suspect there are quite a few Templot users in the same boat. Happy to produce complex track plans in Templot and export an STL file, which they can then use straight off for their own 3D printers or ask friends to print for them. But not design and fit the chairs themselves.

Thanks for your thoughts. It won't be the first time I've reinvented a wheel. If you want a square one, what other option is there?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

Hi Martin,

Didn't I tell you you wouldn't agree with me?

Clearly I must be a rocket scientist. (It really isn't that hard but I do admit people are reluctant to learn or pay for new tools. Software's free, i'n'it?)

It might be nice if you could include an oriented pseudo-block for substitution at the intersections with the rail and timber CLs but it's not that difficult for anyone to do that for themselves.

Anyway, keep plugging on, but if it becomes too much of a chore please use me as an excuse.

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Martin Wynne]

It might be nice if you could include an oriented pseudo-block for substitution at the intersections with the rail and timber CLs but it's not that difficult for anyone to do that for themselves.

But that's already there. See my previous post.

I'm getting more and more confused. I think I should just go away and do the coding, and leave the forum and program support to fend for itself.

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

But that's already there. See my previous post.

I'm getting more and more confused. I think I should just go away and do the coding, and leave the forum and program support to fend for itself.

Martin.

I strongly suggest a boiled egg, or maybe even two

Take care,
Andy

 

[AndyB]

This is my latest version. Added some fancy filleting and chamfering that's probably a waste of time in 00 scale but the model is drawn full-size imperial and should scale. I've attached the native TurboCAD file and also the DXF version for anyone who wants to play along.

 

[Martin Wynne]

This was originally Andy's topic about practical resin printing of track.

I muddied the water by posting details of the settings for 3D file exports from Templot. Sorry about that.

I have moved all those posts to a separate topic in the "Templot talk"section:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/3d-printed-track-from-templot.218/

leaving this topic in the "Models and methods" section about the workshop stuff. Which should be less confusing. Or not.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

I've been following this thread and the subsequent 2.28 specific thread with some interest, even though I have no space for a resin printer. I can't help wondering if filament printing will go the same way as Betamax tapes - the quality from resin seems to be much better than filament. At work, I use an AM (additive manufacturing, aka SLS, selective laser sintering) company for a lot of 3D printed stuff but even that doesn't seem to give detail as fine as resin printing. Or maybe it's just the company we use!

 

[Martin Wynne]

I've been following this thread and the subsequent 2.28 specific thread with some interest, even though I have no space for a resin printer. I can't help wondering if filament printing will go the same way as Betamax tapes - the quality from resin seems to be much better than filament. At work, I use an AM (additive manufacturing, aka SLS, selective laser sintering) company for a lot of 3D printed stuff but even that doesn't seem to give detail as fine as resin printing. Or maybe it's just the company we use!

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

Having both a FDM (filament) printer and SLA (resin) printer I wouldn't want to lose either of them.

The FDM is great for strong functional parts -- for hobbies such as model engineering, model aircraft, drones, spare parts for bikes and boats and lawnmowers. But also maybe a working gearbox in 0 gauge? unbreakable signal posts and telegraph poles? a large-scale lever frame? a turntable deck? point-motor brackets? or even the whole point-motor? all manner of modelmaking tools and jigs.

SLA is much better for fine detail on small-scale models, but unless you go high-end with expensive equipment and resins not so good for strength and working parts.

And when it comes to domestic user-friendliness there is no contest. You could easily have a FDM machine in the corner of a living room if using PLA polymer. The slight smell from hot PLA is actually quite pleasant -- it's made from sugar cane and non-toxic. When it's finished printing, that's it -- remove your new part.

Whereas an SLA printer is only for a workshop area (and preferably one of its own). The resin is toxic, smelly and unpleasant. The process is messy. When it's finished printing that's only the start. You then have to leave it dripping for 10-20 minutes or so (wafting the smell around in the process), before transferring it to a tub of IPA solvent (also smelly) for washing. Don't have any source of UV present (such as sunlight) until all liquid resin has been washed off. Intricate model parts will need careful brush washing in the IPA to remove all traces of liquid resin. At this stage the model is still soft and delicate, so needs careful handling. Finally it needs UV exposure to fully cure it and harden it. But the results are great!

The machine which is going to lose out to resin printing in this hobby in my view is the Cameo cutter. It's been a great disappointment. When I next need some signal box window frames, or a panelled coach side, I feel sure the resin printer would do a better job. Without the option to use it as a pen plotter, I think it would be in the bin by now.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[AndyB]

Probably a case of "horses for courses". Resin is great for detail but FDM is better for structural things and usually faster too. There is (or should) be no need for post-processing with FDM.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

Having both a FDM (filament) printer and SLA (resin) printer I wouldn't want to lose either of them.

The FDM is great for strong functional parts -- for hobbies such as model engineering, model aircraft, drones, spare parts for bikes and boats and lawnmowers. But also maybe a working gearbox in 0 gauge? unbreakable signal posts and telegraph poles? a large-scale lever frame? a turntable deck? point-motor brackets? or even the whole point-motor? all manner of modelmaking tools and jigs.

SLA is much better for fine detail on small-scale models, but unless you go high-end with expensive equipment and resins not so good for strength and working parts.

And when it comes to domestic user-friendliness there is no contest. You could easily have a FDM machine in the corner of a living room if using PLA polymer. The slight smell from hot PLA is actually quite pleasant -- it's made from sugar cane and non-toxic. When it's finished printing, that's it -- remove your new part.

Whereas an SLA printer is only for a workshop area (and preferably one of its own). The resin is toxic, smelly and unpleasant. The process is messy. When it's finished printing that's only the start. You then have to leave it dripping for 10-20 minutes or so (wafting the smell around in the process), before transferring it to a tub of IPA solvent (also smelly) for washing. Intricate model parts will need careful brush washing in the IPA to remove all traces of liquid resin. At this stage the model is still soft and delicate, so needs careful handling. Finally it needs UV exposure to fully cure it and harden it. But the results are great!

The machine which is going to lose out to resin printing in this hobby in my view is the Cameo cutter. It's been a great disappointment. When I next need some signal box window frames, or a panelled coach side, I feel sure the resin printer would do a better job. Without the option to use it as a pen plotter, I think it would be in the bin by now.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin

Ok, maybe resin printing isn’t yet generally practical for many of us! I certainly wouldn’t want all that palaver in my little flat!

For me, I think I would still use Shapeways for the time being, for fine detail stuff. Expensive, but at least practical. I still need to knock up a few designs for printing, and I’m fortunate in that respect in having access to Creo Parametrics, although it’s one of the least intuitive bits of software I’ve ever used! The company I use for 3D printing for work isn’t suitable for hobbyists.

Shame about the Cameo though!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Martin Wynne]

I certainly wouldn’t want all that palaver in my little flat!

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

I didn't want to put you off completely!

The Elegoo Mars printer has a footprint of only 8" square and is easily movable. You could maybe take it into your bathroom and find a space for it when you want to use it? The resin tray is removable, so could stay in there. With the door shut and the window open, or an extractor fan, you should be able to keep the smell from pervading the rest of the flat. It has a 1m (easily extended) low-voltage lead to a separate power brick, so no worries about having a mains socket in a bathroom. Just a thought.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Paul Boyd]

@Paul Boyd

Hi Paul,

I didn't want to put you off completely!

The Elegoo Mars printer has a footprint of only 8" square and is easily movable. You could maybe take it into your bathroom and find a space for it when you want to use it? The resin tray is removable, so could stay in there. With the door shut and the window open, or an extractor fan, you should be able to keep the smell from pervading the rest of the flat. It has a 1m (easily extended) low-voltage lead to a separate power brick, so no worries about having a mains socket in a bathroom. Just a thought.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin

It hasn't put me off completely! The bathroom is out though due to size - there's no flat surface unless I put a board over the bath, which would then need to be stored somewhere when not in use - my flat is somewhere around 350sq.ft. No window in the bathroom, and the extractor fan is useless!

Coincidentally (!!) the subject of in-house 3D printing came up in our daily Teams meeting at work this morning! Resin printing would be ideal for trying designs out although we wouldn't be able to print some of the larger stuff in one piece. I might just have to convince the boss that what the company really, really needs is an Elegoo printer

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Jim Guthrie]

Just a comment on 3D resin printer fumes. I've had a Phrozen Shuffle for over two years and recently added a Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K. When I originally got the Shuffle, I was aware of comments about fumes and started building a cabinet to house it with an exhaust fan routed outside. When the Shuffle arrived I hadn't appreciated that the door hinged upwards which wouldn't work with my cabinet, so I started printing with no provision for fume control and extraction and did not suffer any ill effects at all. The Sonic Mini is the same. It is actually housed in the cabinet built for the Shuffle but only to provide a stable temperature environment in winter months, otherwise no ill effects when it is used. I use Phrozen resins. So it might be worth trying to get up close and personal to a working 3D resin printer to see if any fumes affect you before buying one. If you are like me, fumes might not be a problem.

Jim