Templot5 and plug track - progress discussions

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
during my WIP on real_timber_unit etc, I have discovered that I omitted some events in the real_chair_unit (was chair_elements_unit until renamed) to do with the show_panel etc. Sorry about that
Now corrected, so will include in my next zip.
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,

in case I forget...

in pad_unit

procedure Tpad_form.other_size_steps_menu_entryClick(Sender: TObject);

const
  step_help_str:string='    Timber  Length  Increments'
  +'||Enter a dimension in full-size prototype INCHES for the step size to be used when lengthening turnout timbers.'
  +'||The normal step size for UK standard-gauge practice is 6 inches.'
  +'||For more information click the button below.';

  var
  n:integer;
  od:Toutdim;

begin
  n:=putdim(step_help_str,2,'timber  length  increments  ( step  size )',timbinc,True,True,False,False);   // no negative, no preset, zero ok, don't terminate on zero.
  if n<>0 then EXIT;
  if getdims('timber  length  increments',timbering_help_str,pad_form,n,od)=True
     then timbinc:=od[0];

  redraw_pad(True,True);
end;

timbering_help_str should be step_help_str

Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Making steady progress filling in the blank canvas...

Will have a juggle around to fit 15 panels on once they have been populated & sized...

did wonder if no timbering is essential. Can't this be controlled in display & output options dialog?

Time for a break now having exceeded my screen time quota

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

did wonder if no timbering is essential. Can't this be controlled in display & output options dialog?

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Yes it is essential. This is a track-design setting -- it goes in the BOX file. It is used for situations where the prototype has no timbering, such as over an ash-pit or on a turntable or for rails in a roadway, etc. Also in partial templates making up complex formations, where you want only the rail or rails, and the timbering is on a different template.

The display and output settings control how a template appears on the screen or paper for the purpose of seeing what you are doing more easily -- nothing to do with the prototype. Those settings are not included in the BOX file -- i.e. if you send a BOX file to someone else, the template appears on their screen according to their display settings and not as you were seeing it according to yours.

Looking good.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Guys,
very interesting, although I times I strudel to keep up.
Just a quick question although the panel Steve is creating looks very similar in content to the re REAL>Timbering drop down. Would I be thinking its not to replace this?

 

[Martin Wynne]

Just a quick question although the panel Steve is creating looks very similar in content to the re REAL>Timbering drop down. Would I be thinking its not to replace this?

@Phil G @Steve_Cornford

Hi Phil,

Steve is working to replace most of the complex menu and sub-menu structures with dialog boxes, which are much easier to use but require far more work to create the code for.

It's something which has been on my to-do list for over 20 years.

That wasn't just me being lazy originally -- back in the days of Windows95 and Windows98 it was important to keep consumption of Windows resources to a minimum. I doubt there is anyone still using Templot on those versions of Windows, so it is no longer a consideration.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Steve_Cornford @Martin Wynne
Hi Guys,
all very interesting, I got a bit lost with Steve's question re no timbers, and your rely to Steve re "no timbers can't be in the display and output."

Your reply certainly makes sense though, as every time I save a box fie with no timbering on. IE still matching the rails to the rail position on maps for example, then that is exactly what opens up the next time I open that box file.
Steve is certainly doing a great job of cleaning up the program interface, thus allowing you to spend more time on Program developments. I can only imagine how much effort goes into populating the new look canvas.
well done to both of you.
cheers
Phil

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,

It is used for situations where the prototype has no timbering, such as over an ash-pit or on a turntable or for rails in a roadway, etc.

Thank you, must remember to put my brain in gear, especially in the evenings.

Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Beta test cosmetic design status completed.

Now to finish cutting & pasting all your menu code to get it all working!

I renamed the pointwork timbering panel as turnout timbering as it includes checkboxes for both the point portion and the switch portion. Switch & Crossing ( S & C ) comes to mind.
If you disagree, just let me know & I will revert it.

I have added Test timbering dialog, and Test chairing dialog to the real menu, for obvious reasons.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I renamed the pointwork timbering panel as turnout timbering as it includes checkboxes for both the point portion and the switch portion.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

That's tricky, because those settings also apply to half-diamonds -- which are not turnouts. Those settings are mainly used in partial templates, which are just as likely to be half-diamonds as turnouts.

Generally the term "pointwork" means the same as "S&C" i.e. everything which isn't plain track. I suspect many users would understand the term "pointwork" in that way, and might not be familiar with the term "S&C".

But leave it for now. In the early years of Templot I spent many hours mulling over the choice of terminology and the exact meaning of words. But life is too short, and there is too much else to think about.

p.s. that's a complex dialog. I suggest updating it in AppIdle. You can then call it from anywhere without having to update it first.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
I only changed it to hopefully get people away from the habit of calling a turnout a point!

As the contents of the panel are visible I am minded to label it switch & crossing timbering, on the principal of user education.

I suggest updating it in AppIdle.

For now I am putting code in FormShow as it easier for me to just update one source & keep it self contained. We can always move it later.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

on the principal of user education.

@Steve_Cornford

Education Dept: that should be principle.

FormShow

I'm very wary of FomShow -- often it is called only the first time it is shown. Also if anything changes while it is already showing, it won't get updated. You could try FormActivate.

If you don't want to put the updating in AppIdle, see also:

procedure Tpad_form.main_menuClick(Sender: TObject);

which is called for all pad menu activity. Add:

if Sender=real_menu

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Guys,
Just an observation I though I should being to your notice.
I have been playing with a complex outside slip (not sure be honest if it will be possible to achieve even when all the chair heaving function are finished.) anyway that's an aside.
what I noticed and I have highlighted in the attched screen shot is,
If you have experimental chairing on and you then open real> adjust check rails, and the check rail Icons are close to or over the of the chair icons you will always only get chairing dialog box to open IE it will not accept the DS1 or MD 1 icons to open the adjust check rail dialog box.
The only solution I could find was to close the experimental chairing function, thus removing the chairs Icons, which then allowed access to the adjust check rail I wanted to adjust. Make the adjustments, then close this dialog and then reopen the experiment chairing.
The reason I wanted to do any of this in the first place, was simply because I noticed the end of the check rails were fouling the chairs, and thus needed to be shorted a bit.
Its not a problem as long as you close the experimental chairing. It is however a bit and miss, because you can no longer see the chair base your trying to clear.
In my non programming language it seems to happen because the program takes the chair icon in presidency to the adjust check rail icon, even when the adjust check is in the foreground.
I have also enclosed the box file if you want to simulate what's happening.

cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Guys,
Just an observation I though I should being to your notice.
I have been playing with a complex outside slip (not sure be honest if it will be possible to achieve even when all the chair heaving function are finished.) anyway that's an aside.
what I noticed and I have highlighted in the attched screen shot is,
If you have experimental chairing on and you then open real> adjust check rails, and the check rail Icons are close to or over the of the chair icons you will always only get chairing dialog box to open IE it will not accept the DS1 or MD 1 icons to open the adjust check rail dialog box.
The only solution I could find was to close the experimental chairing function, thus removing the chairs Icons, which then allowed access to the adjust check rail I wanted to adjust. Make the adjustments, then close this dialog and then reopen the experiment chairing.
The reason I wanted to do any of this in the first place, was simply because I noticed the end of the check rails were fouling the chairs, and thus needed to be shorted a bit.
Its not a problem as long as you close the experimental chairing. It is however a bit and miss, because you can no longer see the chair base your trying to clear.
In my non programming language it seems to happen because the program takes the chair icon in presidency to the adjust check rail icon, even when the adjust check is in the foreground.
I have also enclosed the box file if you want to simulate what's happening.

cheers
Phil,

View attachment 12412

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Thanks for finding that. I have now swapped it over so that the check rail markers have click priority over the chair labels.

Will be in the next program update 556b.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
Whilst you are awaiting 556b.....
As a work around you can switch off just the chair labels, leaving the chairs in place by unticking:-

show chair labels

which is on the 3D experimental dialog screen:-

leaving you the chairs, but no labels...

Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi Guys,
Thanks, Also thanks Steve your solution will certainly work in the mean time.
I did not even see Chair labels was a check action.

Just as quick follow up, and its literally just happed, so I have not seen if there is anything I can do about it.
I inadvertently omitted a chair and then realised I had the wrong chair omitted. the issue is its gone, and I can't find a way to get it back!!
From memory it was click check box to removed and unclick omit box to get it back the problem could be me of course.
Cheers
phil,

 

[Terry Downes]

Hi Phil, this minor quirk is known, work around solution within post below...
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/templot5-progress-discussions.982/post-13634
Terry.

 

[Martin Wynne]

As a work around you can switch off just the chair labels, leaving the chairs in place by unticking:-

show chair labels

@Steve_Cornford @Phil G

Unfortunately that doesn't solve the problem in 556a -- the chair label locations can be clicked even when they are not showing. I have fixed it in 556b.

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Phil, this minor quirk is known, work around solution within post below...
https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/templot5-progress-discussions.982/post-13634
Terry.

Thanks Terry,
somehow missed that post. Been out most of the day and only just picked up on your reply.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Please find attached zip of latest state of play.

I believe I have finished and tested the real_timber_unit.
It includes the snibs checkboxes that were on the chairing menu as I beleive they really belong to timbering.
Ditto the switch drive slider ribs.


I have also made a few changes to real_chair_unit, but I might revisit that dialog and split the large chairing options panel up into some separate panels to more closely mirror the structure of the menu.

Hopefully you would be able to merge any chages I have made to the units in the zip with your current changes for 556b.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Please find attached zip of latest state of play.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Many thanks Steve, but you forgot the zip.

I'm going to wait until I've finished the current WIP before merging your latest work.

Some changes will be needed in the print_unit, export_draw_unit, pdf, etc., for the 8-sided chairs

currently:

infill_points:array[0..30] of TPoint; // 221a 28 (0-27) points for chair outlines

The chair outlines now have 32 points instead of 28, so that needs to be:

infill_points:array[0..31] of TPoint;

and several other knock-on changes.

It's all getting into a bit of a muddle (as I knew it would) but we can sort it out in the end. I'm still kicking myself for allowing only 4-sided rectangular chairs originally. If anyone ever wants more than 8 sides the answer is NO -- I'm not going through all this again.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Martin Wynne @Steve_Cornford

If anyone ever wants more than 8 sides the answer is NO -- I'm not going through all this again.

Hi Guys,
Are there such things as more than 8 sided chairs? and very much from more from a curiosity perspective in programming terms would a circle be viewed as a multifaceted shape? or a single shape?
Please note I am advocating for, our even suggesting such a thing. Just curious to understand from a programming perspective?
cheers
Phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Ooops sorry,

Here it is.

I am just trying to search the forum to find out how to add an image into help text, or a pointer to the Templot Companion page.
I am sure you have recently mentioned how to do it.

On the Timbering menu there are entries for help & info, but wtith nothing behind them.
I have added help & info buttons to the chairing dialog that pop-up a placeholder message.
I was thinking about asking for some of the experienced Templot users to contribute with some help text, but I have been looking at the Companion.
There is quite a good diagram in timber spacings overview that might be usefull to point to or even include:-


Turnout timbering

STeve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
Have a closer look at the existing 4-sided chairs.
You will see that although Martin classes them as 4-sided, they do in fact appear to have rounded corners where the 4 sides meet.
They are drawn by the program as a polygon made up of a number of points.
Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I am just trying to search the forum to find out how to add an image into help text,

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Do you mean images in the embedded help notes in the program code?

Or linking to a page in the Companion, causing the user's browser to open at that page?

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

Hi Steve,
Yes I know, thats why there are 28 points and now 32 points.
Its also why I asked the question, purely from a math perspective I always though a circle was defined as a single sided object. but from and X and Y Cartesian perspective its actually a series of vey short lines all joined up. I presume its the latter but I was not sure.
cheers
phil,

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Either or both...
Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

HI Matrin,
it's ok , i have now found an example in pad_unit.pas which I can copy...
Well it is an example of using a .png image

And I should be able to search for an example of a link to 85a as well

Are you sure 32 points are enough?


Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

Either or both...
Steve

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Are we continuing with the embedded help notes? They are a bit old-fashioned with limited formatting, and if Rich and Tim are re-doing all the docs there may not be a place for them.

On the other hand I'm quite fond of them, and they do put the relevant help notes in exactly the right place next to the related function.

There isn't currently a mechanism to fetch images from the Companion or other web pages into the embedded help (there could be, but the HtmlView component in Lazarus is already a bit clunky and I'm not too keen on making further mods).

Which means images in embedded help need to be in the program installer -- they go in the

..\internal\hlp\

folder -- you can see other images there. To insert them in the code:

+'||The most likely reason is that their centre-lines intersect.'

+'||&nbsp; <IMG SRC="'+exe_str+'internal\hlp\centres_must_not_cross.png">'

+'||Adjust one or both templates until the centre-lines come close together but do not intersect (cross).'

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Phil G]

@Steve_Cornford @Martin Wynne

Are we continuing with the embedded help notes? They are a bit old-fashioned with limited formatting, and if Rich and Tim are re-doing all the docs there may not be a place for them.

On the other hand I'm quite fond of them, and they do put the relevant help notes in exactly the right place next to the related function.

Hi Guys,
Would there be space for both? I.e. retain the original help notes, and also have a button that said something "like for more information go to' and then a hyper link to the correct location in the companion?

If thats possible that would be the best outcome, as current there is only partly avaible information in the companion. (something else you need to think about letting go of Martin), and maybe only become be the approver or not approver of other peoples work on the companion. All designed to unburden you.
cheers
Phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Are you sure 32 points are enough?

They had better be -- that's 4 corners each of 6 steps, and 8 sides.

12 steps isn't really enough for GWR chairs with semi-circular ends, but hopefully it won't be too visible under the paint.

If anyone wants chairs with elliptical ends they can write their own Templot.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Guys,
Would there be space for both? I.e. retain the original help notes, and also have a button that said something "like for more information go to' and then a hyper link to the correct location in the companion?

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

We already have that on many of the help notes:

However, if you click the links all you will get is very likely this:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/no_info_yet.htm

because for most of them I have never had the time to do anything about it. Writing help notes and preparing screenshots takes 10 times longer than writing the program code itself.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

because for most of them I have never had the time to do anything about it.

I am hoping that is where the likes of @Phil G and @Phil O et al will step in and help.
STeve

 

[Phil G]

@Phil G

Hi Phil,

We already have that on many of the help notes:


View attachment 12443


However, if you click the links all you will get is very likely this:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/no_info_yet.htm

because for most of them I have never had the time to do anything about it. Writing help notes and preparing screenshots takes 10 times longer than writing the program code itself.

cheers,

Martin.

Hi Martin,
I know hence the latter part of my message, its time to let other people take on this task. There never going to be able to do it using the exact words you would use, but as long as you feel the words used are getting the meaning across that should be good enough. It will mean you will have to read and agree, but thats a lot quicker then spending the time writing it. (I know its a huge task to get it all up to speed)
I was simply suggesting you retain that functionality in Steve's work, sort of future proof if you like.
Though of the day.
Two of the most key words in the Templot world are "experimental" and "under construction" and that is exactly how it should be
Cheers
Phil

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Well I have managed to get some words and an image in, but in the words of eric "not necessarily in the right order".

Or the right size, or even the right topic.
Just wanted to prove that I could do it.

Now we just need some volunteers to come up with the right words in the right order!
Hopefully spell-checked as well.


Help text needed for Timbering dialog ( ie Real > timbering > ...... wherever there is a help or info menu line..



? steps - help
? haf-diamond timbering - help
? approach - help
? exit - help
? curviform timbering - help
? rolled-in - help
? turnout timbering - help (now called ? S&C timbering - help, on new dialoge screen)
? short-angle timbering help


I am happy to put a link (if possible) that refers to any new documentation scheme, structure, scaffold etc.

(Martin, look away now!)
But would like help on writing the help, so if anybody has any experience of using the above topics, please put pen to paper.

In the meantime I will get back to creating some more dialog screens...

Steve

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Phil,
I have added a button just for you....

It would help me if you just used notepad, or preferably Notepad++

  +'||Prototype turnouts do not normally have constant timber spacing.'
  +' For this reason there is no single place in Templot to set the timber spacings.'
  +' There are 4 separate sections to a turnout, each of which has its own timber spacing settings,'
  +'||<IMG SRC="'+exe_str+'internal\hlp\timber_spacings_629x305.png">'
  +'|| 1. switch section Within the switch section, the timber spacings are determined by the design'
  +' of the special switch block chairs and baseplates, which must fit the rails in the correct'
  +' location.'
  +'||For more information please click <A HREF="online_ref280.85a">more information online</A>.';

for example...


Steve

 

[Phil G]

Hi Phil,
I have added a button just for you....
View attachment 12448

It would help me if you just used notepad, or preferably Notepad++

  +'||Prototype turnouts do not normally have constant timber spacing.'
  +' For this reason there is no single place in Templot to set the timber spacings.'
  +' There are 4 separate sections to a turnout, each of which has its own timber spacing settings,'
  +'||<IMG SRC="'+exe_str+'internal\hlp\timber_spacings_629x305.png">'
  +'|| 1. switch section Within the switch section, the timber spacings are determined by the design'
  +' of the special switch block chairs and baseplates, which must fit the rails in the correct'
  +' location.'
  +'||For more information please click <A HREF="online_ref280.85a">more information online</A>.';

for example...


Steve

Lucky me
I just installed notepad ++ there does not seem to be any area to add images? Does that imply you only want a few words on each topic?
cheers
phil,

 

[Martin Wynne]

Lucky me
I just installed notepad ++ there does not seem to be any area to add images? Does that imply you only want a few words on each topic?
cheers
phil,

@Phil G @Steve_Cornford

I suggest writing help notes in a page on the Wiki.

You can add images by simply copyin and pasting them -- preferably with a blank line above and below them.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Steve_Cornford]

Hi Martin,
Unlike me to disagree, but...
I suggest we don't publish the help notes until they have been edited/vetted by a group of us, just in case they have errors that would be propagated across the universe.

Phil,
The images are not embedded, but there is a plain text link to each one as per my example.

Let's discuss on Zoom.

Martin,
I was trying to avoid you having to explain.

Steve

 

[Martin Wynne]

I suggest we don't publish the help notes until they have been edited/vetted by a group of us, just in case they have errors that would be propagated across the universe.

@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Good point. I can create a section on here which is accessible only to specified members.

The advantage of doing it on here is that everyone knows how, and you can copy and paste most of the HTML directly into the help code. I'm just making some screenshots to explain.

cheers,

Martin.