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TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

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  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Templot5 - progress discussions

Quick reply >
Hi Martin,

At present we have an output elements dialog form, and what I shall call a background templates elements dialog form.
Having analysed the various menu entries for now, I propose adding a control template elements dialog form, with a simliar layout to both these forms.

So I am basing it on bgkeeps_unit but rather than name it cukeeps_unit, would you mind if I called it current_unit ?
Or is do you have a preferred name?

control_elements perhaps?

Steve
 
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message ref: 13944
Hi Martin,

At present we have an output elements dialog form, and what I shall call a background templates elements dialog form.
Having analysed the various menu entries for now, I propose adding a control template elements dialog form, with a simliar layout to both these forms.

So I am basing it on bgkeeps_unit but rather than name it cukeeps_unit, would you mind if I called it current_unit ?
Or is do you have a preferred name?

control_elements perhaps?

Steve
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I'm happy for you to call it whatever you prefer. Users don't see the file names so it's not likely to cause confusion.

Bear in mind that whatever you call it you tend to be stuck with -- changing a unit name afterwards is a lot of faff.

After creating a new form, you need to move it in the .lpr file to ensure it gets re-sized in the program size function:


create_form_move.png



And put something against the bottom right corner to enable the re-sizing to work, e.g. datestamp_label.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13947
@Steve_Cornford

p.s. Steve,

After creating a new form, the very FIRST thing you do without fail is to change Scaled to False. Otherwise Lazarus will mess up all your sizes every time you run the program, and the program size slider won't work:


create_form_first.png



Also make sure PixelsPerInch is set to 120.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13948
@Steve_Cornford

p.p.s. I usually set the form font to Arial. You can choose something more stylish, but if it's not present on the user's computer it will make a mess of the form. We don't want to get into all the hassle of including fonts in the installer, and there are copyright issues if you do that.

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13949
Hi Martin,
Here is my current Work In Progress:-
1729014728695.png

todo
finish editing fixing peg centre radiobuttons etc

edit the left-hand panel removing and adding tick-boxes, which I haven't started yet

Supper break now, mushroom omelette :rolleyes:
Steve

edit
oh and add an entry in pad_form to actually invoke it
 
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message ref: 13952
Hi Martin,
I can understand your frustration here, I have a similar thing going on with Auto-cad and Fusion 360. I know F360 is better, well the paid for version is for sure. But its the little changes to work flow they have made, that so annoy me. So much so I tend to revert back to Auto-cad far too often.

Can I ask are you still going to stick to using Lazarus (Templot 5)? or could a switch back to Delphi 5 also be a possibility?
cheers
Phil,
 
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message ref: 13955
Can I ask are you still going to stick to using Lazarus (Templot 5)? or could a switch back to Delphi 5 also be a possibility?
@Phil G

Hi Phil,

Not going back to Delphi5. Fine for me, but it's not available anywhere for everyone else -- it was released in 1998. Not using modern Delphi because the cost is in 4 figures: https://www.embarcadero.com/app-development-tools-store/delphi

Not using the free Delphi Community Edition because the licensing is iffy.

Lazarus is fine -- and free. :)

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13959
Hi Martin,
Current WIP version of Control Template elements...
1729077186566.png


I have checked that the size buttons work ok.

I have intentionally used "Plugtrack options" legend, but have added the note regarding experimental chairing.
Perhaps it would be better to have these options contained in their own colour panel fro more emphasis.

Are there any other checkboxes I need to add, or colours etc.

I believe the other trackpad artifacts could be handled by tickboxes on a Trackpad elements dialog screen?

Or any other feedback before I spend too much time adding & checking all the code behind to mirror the menu options?

Steve
 
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message ref: 13974
Are there any other checkboxes I need to add, or colours etc.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Looking good. (y) You seem to have found everything.

There should be a setting for the radial end marks, but I can't remember if it's ever been implemented. It might be included in the guide marks.

It's important that this is all about appearance only, and not stray into any of the track design functions. Something in the grey area between the two is this:


peg_arm.png


peg_arm_notes.png



You could perhaps add a button linking to that under the peg options.

Also a note making clear that this dialog controls what gets shown on the trackpad, and not what gets generated (which is controlled from the generator menu). Nothing can be shown if it isn't being generated, regardless of these settings.

p.s. is plugtrack 1 word or 2 ? I have no idea, but we need to be consistent. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13978
Hi Martin,
There should be a setting for the radial end marks, but I can't remember if it's ever been implemented. It might be included in the guide marks.
I deduce that it is included in the guide marks based on this code from math_unit :-
Code:
                                1,101: if pad_guide_marks=True then Pen.Color:=guide_colour  // guide marks.   223d switch drive
                                                               else CONTINUE;

                                    2: if pad_guide_marks=True then Pen.Color:=align_colour  // radial ends.
                                                               else CONTINUE;

I could add pad_align_marks:boolean to pad_unit and math_unit if you so wish it?

You could perhaps add a button linking to that under the peg options.
I agree with that suggestion.

Also a note making clear that this dialog controls what gets shown on the trackpad, and not what gets generated (which is controlled from the generator menu). Nothing can be shown if it isn't being generated, regardless of these settings.
OK.

p.s. is plugtrack 1 word or 2 ? I have no idea, but we need to be consistent. :)

I have revised to Plug Track for consistency.

Steve
 
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message ref: 13982
Hi Martin,
Addendum:-
1729091375555.png


math_unit also uses pad_guide_marks to assign colours for:-
switch drive marks
rail joint marks (or is this an error)
transistion marks
plain track start marks

Would you like me to take this opportunity to expand the range of checkboxes to give these marks their own show/hide?

Steve
 
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message ref: 13983
Would you like me to take this opportunity to expand the range of checkboxes to give these marks their own show/hide?
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

You're the one doing all the work, so I'm leaving it to you. :) If there is space for more checkboxes, there is no reason not to have them and/or some extra colours. Bear in mind that very few users do actually change the colours around much or change the display options. For those who do, I expect they would like to have their settings included in prefs_unit -- another unfinished part of Templot.

I haven't actually looked at any of this stuff for years. I did wonder if we should have had a new colour screen scheme for Templot5. It was just too much work to try everything and make a decision. The bright yellow program panel is intended to be temporary, just to emphasize the swap-over. Presumably we would like to have a photo or graphics on there in due course, as in Templot2. Or maybe not?

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13985
@Alan McMillan

Hi Alan,

I'm sorry to hear your work has been wasted.

But please don't worry about my efforts -- as a result of your starting this topic I have discovered a much better way to extract the cross-section data from STL files, which will be a great help with the chairs in future. It means folks can create STL files of chairs in CAD and simply send them to me, without any concern about what I will need to get them into Templot. Others here without CAD skills can help in that process because it doesn't involve any software beyond what we are already using.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin,
Not wishing to jump the gun here or apply any pressure but, 'IF' it helps, I can generate full size STL CAD files of any chairs or crossing chairs You wish to work on next. Just let me know what You want and I'll generate for You.
 
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message ref: 13987
Hi Martin,
Not wishing to jump the gun here or apply any pressure but, 'IF' it helps, I can generate full size STL CAD files of any chairs or crossing chairs You wish to work on next. Just let me know what You want and I'll generate for You.
@Terry Downes

Thanks Terry. Let's not jump too far ahead just yet. :)

One chair which I think would prove very popular and can be done quite quickly would be the GWR / BR(W) 2-bolt version of the REA S1 (and most other) chairs:


index.php



For which all we need is the inner jaw with 2 ribs (on the right above, on the left below). We have everything else ready to go, we just need the inner jaw part, which can then be substituted for the existing REA inner jaw (having one rib) on many of the existing REA chairs.

I have one of these chairs here, so if you need any dimensions I can measure it. The jaw is 4" wide at the top.

i.e. we need an STL file of this bit, preferably referenced from the R.F. line (rail gauge-face) and the chair centre-line:


red_chair.jpg


index.php


index.php


cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13990
Hi Martin,
I did wonder if we should have had a new colour screen scheme for Templot5.
I think that with the new element dialog screens display panels of colour might aid you in this process, when the time comes.

trackpad backdrop colour check
For the trackpad background templates colour panels, and the control template colour panels, I am wondering whether I should display an error message if any new "panel_colour"=paper_colour, and revert to the previous value of "panel_colour" (otherwise the relevant mark would be invisible), or is that overkill.
I note you already have a workaround for peg_colour!

show rail joints and marks menu entry
this currently maps to pad_guide_marks which is then use as the show/hide switch for the following marks code:-
-3 -2 == curving rad centres no colour panel at present, uses guide_colour
1 101 == guide marks colour panel [ guide marks ]
2 == radial ends colour panel [ radial end marks ]
6 == rail joint marks colour panel [ rail joints ]
7 == transition marks colour panel [ transition end marks ]

I am proposing to add the following booleans to math_unit:-
pad_align_marks (for 2 radial end marks)
pad_joint_marks (for 6 rail joint marks)
pad_align_marks (for 7 transition end marks)

Shall I leave codes -3 -2 using pad_guide_marks, or include them in pad_align_marks, or give them their own colour and show/hide checkbox?

I assume that radial_end_marks is synonymous with "align".

Sorry for these questions but it helps clarify things if i get them written down, and its better for you to correct me if I am wrong in my assumptions than propagate mis-information.
yours sincerely D.Trump
 
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message ref: 13992
@Terry Downes

Thanks Terry. Let's not jump too far ahead just yet. :)

One chair which I think would prove very popular and can be done quite quickly would be the GWR / BR(W) 2-bolt version of the REA S1 (and most other) chairs:


index.php



For which all we need is the inner jaw with 2 ribs (on the right above, on the left below). We have everything else ready to go, we just need the inner jaw part, which can then be substituted for the existing REA inner jaw (having one rib) on many of the existing REA chairs.

I have one of these chairs here, so if you need any dimensions I can measure it. The jaw is 4" wide at the top.

i.e. we need an STL file of this bit, preferably referenced from the R.F. line (rail gauge-face) and the chair centre-line:


View attachment 12069

index.php


index.php


cheers,

Martin.
I'm on it....
 
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message ref: 13993
For the trackpad background templates colour panels, and the control template colour panels, I am wondering whether I should display an error message if any new "panel_colour"=paper_colour, and revert to the previous value of "panel_colour" (otherwise the relevant mark would be invisible), or is that overkill.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve, Dear Mr. Trump,

It's not an error as such, it would be a "Handy Hint" message. But it's probably not needed and you could get it wrong -- if the mark is over a timber, or an infilled background shape, or an item from the sketchboard, for example. I think most users would notice immediately that they had gone wrong without needing a message.

I assume that radial_end_marks is synonymous with "align".

The radial end marks are these marks across the turnout road where the radius changes. The current default for them is a pale yellow-green (in the sky blue default colour scheme):

radial_ends.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 13996
Hi Martin,
A few steps forward:-
1729119851597.png

Well cosmetically at least.
todo :- peg arm length & timber number font click code


I could easily get sucked down the rabbit hole & add buttons & panels for more bits of the plug track furniture, which just come under the control of guide marks at present.

It is terribly addictive.....

Steve
 
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message ref: 13999
Hi Martin,
could not stop myself going down the rabbit hole, but have now resurfaced:-
1729160601022.png


l-h help screen:-
1729160669018.png

r-h help screen:-
1729160707669.png

All now working....
Would you like to make any revision to the help screens, before I go down another burrow?

Steve
 
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message ref: 14016
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message ref: 14017
Martin/Steve, QQ, is there a facility to count the number of chairs or timbers in a template, group of templates or whole plan within Templot? Why, because I have been asked to provide an approximate cost on producing some plug track resin chairs and ply timbers in 4mm.
 
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message ref: 14026
Martin/Steve, QQ, is there a facility to count the number of chairs or timbers in a template, group of templates or whole plan within Templot? Why, because I have been asked to provide an approximate cost on producing some plug track resin chairs and ply timbers in 4mm.
@Terry Downes

Hi Terry,

timber_count.png


timber_count1.png


chair_count.png


timber_count2.png


cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 14027
Hi Martin,
Emerged from the warren after negotiating a bug feature of Lazarus compared with Delphi (Lazarus invokes Onclick as well as OnChange when a field value is changed by software rather than as a result of an actual keyboard click.
Any way here is current latest version:-
1729275025811.png

As a result have made small revision to math_unit (replacing hard coded colours of cutter kerf & clip fit tangs with colour panels)

Steve
 
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message ref: 14072
Hi Martin,
Presumably we would like to have a photo or graphics on there in due course, as in Templot2. Or maybe not?
How about a photo and a graphic?

One could not go wrong with a graphic of a single Plug Track chair complete with plug, especially one of your multi-coloured examples.

And a photo of flowing trackwork curves always goes down well.

Steve
 
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message ref: 14074
a bug feature of Lazarus compared with Delphi (Lazarus invokes Onclick as well as OnChange when a field value is changed by software rather than as a result of an actual keyboard click.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

This is an infuriating feature of Delphi too.

There are some ways round this which I use (IT professionals look away now):

1. If I know I will be changing something programmatically, such as a checkbox after loading a file, don't use the OnClick event of the control. Use instead the OnMouseDown event (or OnMouseUp event). This creates the same effect for the user as a click, but doesn't get called for programmatic changes. The snag is that it doesn't work for users relying on the keyboard rather than using a mouse.

2. Set a global flag before making a lot of programmatic changes, test the flag in the OnClick event, and Exit if it's set. Don't forget to unset it afterwards.

3. Use the Tag property of the control. All controls have an integer Tag property which you can use for any purpose, mostly they don't get used much. Default is zero. If you start OnClick events with:

if the_control.Tag=1 then EXIT;

you can set the Tag in advance without needing to create a global flag. Remember to reset the Tag to zero afterwards.

Or you can use other values in the Tag to change the working of the Onclick event. Or for any other purpose.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 14077
Hi Martin,
Quick question relating to no_chairing versus experimental_chairing.
1729354023461.png

When you switch on experimental chairing, you perform brick_form.show

but when you switch it off (no_chairing_menu_entryClick) you perform heave_chairs_form.hide.

Is it alright if I add brick_form.hide?

Found this when testing my latest checkbox:-
1729355180992.png

which invokes the two pad_form procedures pictured above.

Also looking at the shove timbers form:-
1729354902055.png


I would suggest that we put all 3-D flanges, 3-D webs, 2-D snibs, 2-D snib links objects and the [heave chairs on ..] button a Tpanel that can be disabled/enabled depending on exp_chairing.
If you agree & want to delegate this task just let me know.


Steve
 
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message ref: 14109
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

I think maybe we need to back-track a little.

At present we have one switch exp_chairing for several different functions, which is purely a temporary kludge and it was always my intention to split them up eventually. I wish I had done a lot more of sorting everything out properly before releasing plug track, because now there is so much temporary stuff to row back on:

All these should really have their own switches:

1. chair outlines on 2D templates, similar to C&L and Exactoscale templates.

2. export of 3D chairs in STL format.

3. export of 2D DXF files for timbers for CAD (this has been possible from the beginning of time, but we have more recently added the kerf offsets, nibs and snibs, etc. to make it easier for use with laser-cutters).

4. including 2D socket outlines in the above if 3D chairing is switched on.

5. export of 3D DXF files for timbering (this has also been possible for many years for CAD). We have now added the webs and flanges and brick assemblers to make it easier for 3D printing.

6. including 3D sockets in the above if 3D chairing is switched on.

but when you switch it off (no_chairing_menu_entryClick) you perform heave_chairs_form.hide.

Is it alright if I add brick_form.hide?

There is no reason to hide it just because the chairing is switched off. It might be needed for blanking, brick colours etc, for 2D laser cutting. If it's not wanted the user can easily remove it, it doesn't take up much space.

The reason for hiding the heave chairs form is that it's big and obscures a lot of screen space, and it serves no purpose at all if the chairing is switched off.

I would suggest that we put all 3-D flanges, 3-D webs, 2-D snibs, 2-D snib links objects and the [heave chairs on ..] button a Tpanel that can be disabled/enabled depending on exp_chairing.
If you agree & want to delegate this task just let me know.

As above, the nibs and snibs might be wanted without chairing, see:

2d_templates.png


Likewise the flanges might be wanted without chairing.

The existing options on the shove timber form seem ok to me for the present, I can't see any need to change them. Or at least, not yet. There is so much else to finish first.



Perhaps you feel ready to start on the shift from experimental to final? There's a lot of work involved:

All occurrences of if exp_chairing need separating out into if chairing, if _2d_export, if _3d_export, etc., and maybe other switches.

There are some functions on DXF form which are currently global across the file and might be better made template-specific. Such as the check rail gap for gauge-widening, the soleplate size, etc.

Note that:

exp_chairing:=chairing_flag;

means that this setting is currently included in the binary section of the BOX file. That section needs to be treated as locked against future changes, otherwise the t2_converter.exe helper would need modifying. So we should ignore chairing_flag in future and put any new template-specific parameters in a trailing data block, preferably in XML.

Would you like to have a go at that?

As I said, there is still so much to do and think about. I've had a day away from Templot today and I really do want to stop thinking about all this logical stuff for a while. I want to get back to the chair design while I can still remember how I did it. :)

I'm also constantly fretting about the sketchboard. It is now the only significant reason to hang on to Templot2 and not make the final swap to Templot5. I don't regard the loss of TWAIN scanning very significant because I doubt many folks ever used it, and there are easy workarounds -- and we may yet find a Lazarus replacement. But the sketchboard is a thorny issue, I don't want to lose it.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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message ref: 14111
Hi Martin/Steve
To be honest I am a bit reluctant to pen this given the pervious post, and its not certainly not high up any order of things to do.
I was just wondering and it may not even be possible.

when you first open Templot. it is capable of monitoring if you are using one or more then one monitors.

However if you do select more than one, what actually happen is the total screen area of the program is shared across the two monitors.

Which in the case of track design does not actually help. especially if the track being worked bridges the two or even three monitors.

I have also noticed a lot of other programs today don't to it this way. In there case the program can be half sized dragged into which ever monitor you wish and then when maximised it will sit only in the boundary of that monitor.

When this situation is the case, I have further found pop windows can be dragged across into the other monitor and will then stay there.
what results is a much less cluttered work area.
Is such a thing possible with Templot? and if so would it be a major tack to instigate?

The most obvious situation would be if a laptop was hooked into a TV for example, so the TV screen was the main track building area
but the lap top could be set up for the pops to open on that screen is required. This would be ideal as it would only involving looking down to the keyboard and or laptop screen to action pop data. lets say chair heaving, whist glancing up would show you an unclutched view of the piece of track you were working on to mover and change chairs etc.
Just food for though if its doable, it would be a great aid to workflow.
cheers
Phil.
 
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message ref: 14116
Hi Martin,
All these should really have their own switches:
In a way they already have, as I believe all 6 of your list is catered for currently, unless I am misunderstanding your list.

There is no reason to hide it just because the chairing is switched off. It might be needed for blanking, brick colours etc, for 2D laser cutting. If it's not wanted the user can easily remove it, it doesn't take up much space.
My logic was that switching on experimental chairing shows the brick form, therefore switching off experimental chairing should hide the brick form.
And if they want to show the form without switching on experimental chairing they just have to click the [3D] button.


The reason for hiding the heave chairs form is that it's big and obscures a lot of screen space, and it serves no purpose at all if the chairing is switched off.
Agreed.


All occurrences of if exp_chairing need separating out into if chairing, if _2d_export, if _3d_export, etc., and maybe other switches.

So in preparation for this, I have amended shove timbers, and placed the 3D and 2D options in separate panels.
This helps me understand the separation needed:-
1729382174761.png

I have also replaced the remaining Tgroupbox objects with Tpanel objects.


Would you like to have a go at that?

Yes, quite happy to undertake that task.

I want to get back to the chair design while I can still remember how I did it
Go for it 🥚 🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚🥚

I'm also constantly fretting about the sketchboard. It is now the only significant reason to hang on to Templot2 and not make the final swap to Templot5. I don't regard the loss of TWAIN scanning very significant because I doubt many folks ever used it, and there are easy workarounds -- and we may yet find a Lazarus replacement. But the sketchboard is a thorny issue, I don't want to lose it.

Recently you mentioned that that you would send me some sketchboard stuff for me to look at.

Anything I can do to help.

Steve
 
_______________
message ref: 14123
I would like to offer to help with the frankly massive task of updating documentation. For a small example of this need, clicking on 'help' then 'changes in this version' in TEMPLOT5 opens a browser with a page from November 2019 detailing changes in version 2.24.

It is always a problem with programmes that are tweaked and improved often, that documentation does not keep up. I'm not sure about the best approach to do this. There are already several sources of information, with both the Templot club and the Templot club archive + many very useful threads spread across many topics in the forum. Just starting again from scratch would be a waste of all this knowledge, and just starting yet another site would only add to the confusion. What would be the best way to try and tidy up the existing documentation?

And as an aside, I have just tried for fun, asking Chat GPT on how to do a couple of things in Templot... and it actually gave me an answer that worked!
 
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message ref: 14126
Last edited:
I would like to offer to help with the frankly massive task of updating documentation.
@Vistisen @Richardb

Hi Tim,

Many thanks for your offer of help. At present we need all the help we can get. :)

The poor state of the Templot docs has always been a problem, since long before the introduction of plug track. Anything you can do to improve matters would be very welcome.

Ideally I would like to see everything accessible from the Templot A-Z Index at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/hmkwindex.php

A possible starting point would be to gather up all the embedded help notes, e.g.


index.php



as screenshots and get them included in the Companion (and the A-Z Index). The Companion pages could then be expanded as required and linked via the "more information online" links -- that function is still little more than a skeleton, even after all these years:

Code:
<?php
$ref=$_GET["ref"];
switch($ref)
{
case 130: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/double_track_spacing.php"; break;     // adjacent centres
case 160: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/link_existing.php"; break;    // make simple link
case 201: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/link_existing.php"; break;    // make transition link
case 570: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/output_in_detail_mode.php"; break; // detail-mode options
case 601: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/check_and_wing_rails.php"; break;
case 810: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/wrap_picture_shape_to_curve.php"; break;
case 910: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/printing_in_diagram_mode.php"; break;
case 920: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/dummy_vehicle_tool.php"; break;
case 996: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3539.php"; break;   // Templot3 help notes
case 997: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3283.php"; break;   // getting started with TemplotMEC 
case 999: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/topic_3555.php"; break;   // latest release notes 
case 1050: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/output_in_detail_mode.php"; break;
default: $file_str="https://85a.uk/templot/companion/no_info_yet.htm";
}
header('Window-Target: hmcontent');
header('Location: '.$file_str) ;
?>

Even some of those few links are now out of date (Templot3 and TemplotMEC), and the "latest release notes" haven't been updated for years. :(

n.b. Rich Bunting is also working on the docs -- you may want to compare notes, see:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?posts/12871

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/996

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin.

I will contact Rich Bunting and see where I can help him. It sounds like he knows a lot more about the subject of documentation than I do. As a IT system administrator, I consider myself more to be a victim when it comes to documentation than an expert :p
 
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Hi Martin.

I will contact Rich Bunting and see where I can help him. It sounds like he knows a lot more about the subject of documentation than I do. As a IT system administrator, I consider myself more to be a victim when it comes to documentation than an expert :p
Hi Tim/Richard
I would also like to offer my help in starting to sort out the minefield that is the documentation.
It's not so much that the information is not there, its simply it's not in an obvious and clearly refenced manor. I don't think it could even have been another way, when you consider in the beginning, it was just one man with a concept, which he then had to evolve into something meaningful, and try to explain it at the same time.

Today a lot of the concentration is on plug track and cot track. I don't doubt its these two elements that are attracting most peoples interest.
This then creates a very interesting conundrum, there is no doubt you can today, mainly because its been well explained, make a simple turnout (James Walters has covered this very well in some of very good you tube posts)
However that's a long way from designing more complex sections of trackwork say a double junction or even a complete layout.

In order to do that, in addition to the few chairs that are still needed to make these more complex formations (clearly the only person who can currently do that detail of programming is Martin himself.)

You will also need a very good understanding of the more complex functions within Templot itself. To be honest I would argue more than ever before. Even before plug track you could to a certain accept fudge Templot printouts. if you had not got the trackwork 100% in Templot right, for example if two elements did not exactly meet or smoothly flow into each other, it did not matter to much as this could be sorted out as you built the trackwork. After all you have the track gauge to fall back on.
If you do the same thing today with plug track or COT your asking for trouble, as its now Templot that is also doing the gauging.

All of this brings to my main point, I believe there is already a quite logical way we should be approaching the documentation.
here are my thoughts on it.

1, Using Templot as it was originally designed, IE as a commuter programme which has the ability to accurately create prototypical trackwork in any scales. (this last bit needs a qualification, in so far as, its actually imposable to create 100% accurate track in a scale thats not accurate in its own right). At this point everything is a compromise and Templot does a remarkable job of handling this issue.
This needs all the information pertaining to using Templot as a design tool avaible in this section.
The companion is a good starting point.

2, Plug track and Cot First steps using REA 1926 track furniture.
This section needs all the information pertaining using 2D and 3D exports from Templot, as well as a full explanation of the "tools" to create these 2D and 3D exports. This should also reference things like machine types and custom profiles used to get the best out of building track.
Note it is already apparent, this is a quickly evolving topic in own right. So some of early recommendations have been supersede. I believe this section should be limited to plain track and simple turnouts only (effectively what we can do with Plug track right now without any kludging)

The documentation should complied in such a way that either section 1 or 2 can be read and the reader can achieve a result without having to swap between the two sections. most of the information for these two sections has been written and only needs collating (noting only needs collating is actually a massive task)

3, A little bit in the future, is full blown integration of Templot and plug track/COT (Martin's dream if you like) where if you can conceive it in Templot know matter what it is, you can make it with plug track or COT and how to actually do that. As I said we are still someway of getting there, but section three is the place for such things. Examples are the still need special chairs, in REA a whole mountain of information and drawing of other types of chairs both before and after the 1926 REA designs, flat bottom track to at least as far as Martin has taken current Templot. And maybe given somebody what's to take up the mantel, all the way up to current railway track practice.

Given section three is both in the near present and the future a lot of it will be the waiting to be written section.
Section three is where you move to once your have mastered, or at the very least feel comfortable with both sections 1 and 2

The next thing is getting volunteers to start working on the breakout of the documentation.
cheers
Phil
 
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Hi Martin,
I have back-tracked a little (well in my mind at least), and a 💡came on, or possibly a 🔦.

Thinking out loud here...

Correct me if I am wrong, but the experimental chairing switch not only controls some defaults for display, export and output, but at the ground level what extra marks are generated.

Perhaps now that the Plug Track extensions to Templot are maturing it would be an opportune moment to revisit the generator settings?

As first step I plan to create a generator settings dialog screen containing the existing options.

gen_settings_unit perhaps?

This would help me see the wood for the trees, and would do no harm.

There would then be the possibility to add extra options for each of the new marks (or group of marks) that relate to experimental chairing.
For instance the equivalent of dxf_form.unchaired_kerf_checkbox, or even splitting that into a gen_nibs_checkbox and a gen_snibs_checkbox

I believe dialog screens are slightly moe user friendly as they allow you to amend more than one option in one go rather than repeated menu navigation for each option.

Steve
 
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As first step I plan to create a generator settings dialog screen containing the existing options.
@Steve_Cornford

Hi Steve,

Great! That's been on my to-do list for years. :)

But it needs to make clear that the generator settings are not intended to be used for track design work. For example if you don't want timbering on a template, you switch it off on the real menu, not the generator settings (which are not included in any file).

The generator settings are intended to be an aid is using the program -- to speed up the screen response, remove unwanted clutter from the screen, make it easier to see which template is which, create simplified screenshots, etc. After which you would normally switch everything back on and rebuild the templates, before creating the output.



The menu which is crying out to be replaced with a dialog is this one:


exp_menu.png



The snag being that I'm still adding and removing bits to it as I progress the plug track. So we still need a shorter menu here for the present, even if most of the stuff has been shifted to a dialog.

That's the dialog where I would expect to find some of the DXF settings such as the soleplate, snibs, etc.

cheers,

Martin.
 
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Hi Martin,
How about splitting the contents of the chairing / 3-D / 2-D menu line across two dialog boxes:-

Dialog title Source names Form names
Chairing elements settings_chair.lfm, settings_chair.pas settings_chair_form
Timbering elements settings_timb.lfm, settings_timb.pas settings_timb_form

settings_timb_form to contain options for objects that are not chairing dependent such as:-

brick assemblers
brick clips
brick cages
cutter kerf (omitted word laser as might also be used for CNC milling machines, at least you have got one of those)
dropper wire ridges
nibs, snibs
soleplates
switch driver slide ribs
timber depths
timber flanges
timbering webs/sprues

I am suggesting this as there are quite a lot of options required altogether, and I expect there will only be more in the future, and as you have mentioned .
What is that Sooty, you can see some 8-sided chairs just over the horizen. :)

Please let me know if you would prefer just one form, or if you have thoughts on the source names, or indeed any other thoughts.

Steve
edited to make settings_timb naming consistent (was settings_2D3D)
 
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