Templot Club forums powered for Martin Wynne by XenForo :

TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

Track plan

Quick reply >
Hi Tony,
You don't say what stock will be used on the layout. Judging by the size I am guessing at 4 wheel wagons and tank locos as the turnouts are B6's. Given the above I would have a wider track spacing in the run-round loop for the shunters to walk safely.

Rob
 
_______________
message ref: 2327
@TonyG

Hi Tony,

You didn't say anything about what your intentions are for this track plan, but I assume that it is a small branch terminus and you want it to be reasonably prototypical within the available space?

At this location:

tonyg1.png


you have an instant reverse curve between two fairly sharp curves (or very sharp, in prototype terms). That's not very prototypical, and in P4 it is likely to cause running problems. At the very least you need a short length of straight between these curves. But Templot makes it very easy to insert a gentle transition curve instead. You just need to sharpen the lower radius a fraction, and them use the make transition link function. This is a possible result:

tonyg2.png


More about that function at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/make_transition_link.php

Your track plan is entirely constructed using short dead-straight B-6 turnouts, as may be found in a set-track style of layout. That's not very prototypical and is making very little use of Templot's many functions and features. If that really is the type of layout you require, you might find it easier to use a pick-and-place type of software such as AnyRail:

https://www.anyrail.com

For a more prototypical-looking track plan, you should consider using longer turnouts for the running lines, and the short turnouts only for the yards and sidings.

To make better use of the space you might consider putting the station on a curve, as in the upper version here (with your track plan below it):


tonyg3.png


By using another transition curve at the entry into the station on the right, it is possible to use longer turnouts for the station throat and move them out partially round the approach curve. Those above are C-9 turnouts.

For the run-round crossover we can use something a bit shorter, but still need to consider we might be using large locomotives. Here they are B-7 turnouts. The crossover into the yard uses the shorter B-6 turnouts as before.

Even using these longer turnouts, the usable platform length is increased by about 150mm, as a result of curving the plan and moving the station throat out round the approach curve.

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 2330
Hi Tony.

Martin has already pointed out some of the potential short comings. Using B-6 turnouts for a crossover is not ideal as end throw can be quite large, but we all do it. As Martin suggests B-7s are better. There are other issues. You have shoved some of the timbers under the crossing Vee on one of the turnouts leaving the crossing nose unsupported. This a no no as the position of the timbers is determined by the chairs, which are made to be set at standard spacings. The geometry of the turnout determines this. The crossing timbers may be rotated, but not shoved forward or back. Your track spacings are wider than standard and I was wondering if there is any reason why. I have reduced it a fraction as this helps with the timbering, which I think you were struggling with. I have also curved the turnout top right as this helps reduce the reverse curve into the siding and I think looks better.
I have done the timbering for you, but don't feel obliged to use the plan if you wish to make further changes to the basic design in view of Martins comments. Box file attached.

Regards
Tony.
 

Attachments

  • new_layout_2021_08_17_1116_07.box
    211.3 KB · Views: 129
_______________
message ref: 2331
Hi Tony.

Martin has already pointed out some of the potential short comings. Using B-6 turnouts for a crossover is not ideal as end throw can be quite large, but we all do it. As Martin suggests B-7s are better. There are other issues. You have shoved some of the timbers under the crossing Vee on one of the turnouts leaving the crossing nose unsupported. This a no no as the position of the timbers is determined by the chairs, which are made to be set at standard spacings. The geometry of the turnout determines this. The crossing timbers may be rotated, but not shoved forward or back. Your track spacings are wider than standard and I was wondering if there is any reason why. I have reduced it a fraction as this helps with the timbering, which I think you were struggling with. I have also curved the turnout top right as this helps reduce the reverse curve into the siding and I think looks better.
I have done the timbering for you, but don't feel obliged to use the plan if you wish to make further changes to the basic design in view of Martins comments. Box file attached.

Regards
Tony.
Hi Tony
Many thanks for doing that and is a great help. I would like to use the suggestions made by Martin but have not a clue how I would go about this. My age is against me for learning new software and getting up and down from the floor is not very easy for me. My layout has to be portable and my baseboards are no bigger than 1000mm x 450mm anything bigger I just cannot handle.

Regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2332
Hi Tony.
Always a good idea to consider your baseboards sizes in order to avoid joints occurring in unwanted places like under the switch blades or crossings. Background shapes allow you to do this easily. Martin will have generated a box file for the design he suggested. If he is willing to post it I am prepared to work with you from there to generate something that will work for you.

Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 2333
@TonyG

Hi Tony,

You didn't say anything about what your intentions are for this track plan, but I assume that it is a small branch terminus and you want it to be reasonably prototypical within the available space?

At this location:

View attachment 1910

you have an instant reverse curve between two fairly sharp curves (or very sharp, in prototype terms). That's not very prototypical, and in P4 it is likely to cause running problems. At the very least you need a short length of straight between these curves. But Templot makes it very easy to insert a gentle transition curve instead. You just need to sharpen the lower radius a fraction, and them use the make transition link function. This is a possible result:

View attachment 1912

More about that function at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/make_transition_link.php

Your track plan is entirely constructed using short dead-straight B-6 turnouts, as may be found in a set-track style of layout. That's not very prototypical and is making very little use of Templot's many functions and features. If that really is the type of layout you require, you might find it easier to use a pick-and-place type of software such as AnyRail:

https://www.anyrail.com

For a more prototypical-looking track plan, you should consider using longer turnouts for the running lines, and the short turnouts only for the yards and sidings.

To make better use of the space you might consider putting the station on a curve, as in the upper version here (with your track plan below it):


View attachment 1911

By using another transition curve at the entry into the station on the right, it is possible to use longer turnouts for the station throat and move them out partially round the approach curve. Those above are C-9 turnouts.

For the run-round crossover we can use something a bit shorter, but still need to consider we might be using large locomotives. Here they are B-7 turnouts. The crossover into the yard uses the shorter B-6 turnouts as before.

Even using these longer turnouts, the usable platform length is increased by about 150mm, as a result of curving the plan and moving the station throat out round the approach curve.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin
would you have the box file for the design you have done for me

Regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2334
@TonyG @Tony W

Hi Tony, Tony,

Sure. Attached below. :)

This was just a quick dabble, I haven't done any timber shoving or fine tuning.

cheers,

Martin.
 

Attachments

  • tonyg_mod.box
    128.7 KB · Views: 131
_______________
message ref: 2336
Hi Tony
here is the box file that Martin has sent me. I have the baseboards on my laptop
in backgrounds but i do not know how to get them to you
Regards
Tony
 

Attachments

  • tonyg_mod (1).box
    128.7 KB · Views: 131
_______________
message ref: 2338
Hi Tony.
Post the .bgs3 file here as an attachment just as you did the box file.
You will find it in the Shapes folder.
Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 2339
Last edited:
Hi Tony.
Not sure what happened there, but after you have clicked the Attach files button, you should just be able to navigate to the Shapes files folder and copy the .bgs3 file from there.
That one does not work as either a box or bgs3 file.
Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 2341
Hi Tony.
Thanks for that. Leave it with me and I will see what I can do.
There are a couple of questions that may have a bearing on things.
Is the layout intended to represent any particular railway company and time period?
Do the baseboards already exist and if not would you consider non rectangular shapes if necessary as this can sometimes help where tracks cross joints at an angle?
Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 2351
Hi Tony.
Thanks for that. Leave it with me and I will see what I can do.
There are a couple of questions that may have a bearing on things.
Is the layout intended to represent any particular railway company and time period?
Do the baseboards already exist and if not would you consider non rectangular shapes if necessary as this can sometimes help where tracks cross joints at an angle?
Regards
Tony.
only lswr and southern, time period 1945-1955 not based on anywhere in particuler.
baseboards are made to fit in a area and sizes cannot be changed and has to be portable
regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2353
Hi Tony.
The weather caused an early end to the exterior house painting this afternoon, so gave me a bit of time to have a look at your project.
I have overlaid Martin's plan on yours and gone from there. The background shapes were critical to what followed. I have had to move some of the pointwork to avoid baseboard joints in impractical places and changed the approach turnout to a C-10. There is not much room to play with round the curve due to the baseboard widths. However given the space limitations I don't think the result is too bad and hope it is to your liking.
Regards
Tony.
 

Attachments

  • new layout 9.box
    177.2 KB · Views: 178
_______________
message ref: 2357
I have also tidied up your shapes file as there appeared to be some short spurious lines, I presume you did not know how to delete them. To do so highlight the shape in the list and press the Del key. Templot will ask for confirmation before acting.
If these were intentional, then use your original. I have not altered anything otherwise.
Regards
Tony
 

Attachments

  • new_layout9.bgs3
    3.6 KB · Views: 125
_______________
message ref: 2358
Hi Tony.
The weather caused an early end to the exterior house painting this afternoon, so gave me a bit of time to have a look at your project.
I have overlaid Martin's plan on yours and gone from there. The background shapes were critical to what followed. I have had to move some of the pointwork to avoid baseboard joints in impractical places and changed the approach turnout to a C-10. There is not much room to play with round the curve due to the baseboard widths. However given the space limitations I don't think the result is too bad and hope it is to your liking.
Regards
Tony.
Many thanks for doing that for me, it has helped me no end. I have had a good look at the plan and it all looks okay. Some of the pointwork is on the baseboard joints which cannot be helped but at least it is the non movable parts. I will print it all out tomorrow to see if all is okay. I will let you know how it goes.

Regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2360
Hi Tony.
Before you do, the one thing I forgot was that as the sidings top right come off a passenger carrying line they should have Catch / Trap points protecting their exit. I have now added them. There is nothing wrong with having baseboard joints in the center fixed section of a turnout, it just gives you 4 rails to align instead of 2. There are plenty of examples on my layout.
Regards
Tony.
 

Attachments

  • new_layout_10.box
    170.9 KB · Views: 140
_______________
message ref: 2369
Hi Tony.
Before you do, the one thing I forgot was that as the sidings top right come off a passenger carrying line they should have Catch / Trap points protecting their exit. I have now added them. There is nothing wrong with having baseboard joints in the center fixed section of a turnout, it just gives you 4 rails to align instead of 2. There are plenty of examples on my layout.
Regards
Tony.
Hi Tony
Many thanks for that. I was going to ask you about them but you beat me to it

Regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2375
Hi Tony.
Looking forward to see how you get on with it. Any questions, just ask.
Regards
Tony.
Hi Tony
I have carefully laid out the plan and all is ok. Thank you. I have at the moment one small question. I have printed plan out on 220gmm card and using laser cut ply sleepers and chairs etc fron the scalefour society. My question is do you build in situ or offplan, i never know which is best.

Regards
Tony
 
_______________
message ref: 2382
Hi Tony.
The answer you get depends on who you ask. I always build off plan, but I use ply and rivet soldered track and have written my methods up on the Scalefour forum https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5727
From the sound of it you are going to be using functional chairs and glued construction, which is probably better suited to building in situ especially as your baseboards are a manageable size to work on.
Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 2383
Back
Top