Templot Club forums powered for Martin Wynne by XenForo :

TEMPLOT 3D PLUG TRACK - To get up to speed with this experimental project click here.   To watch an introductory video click here.   See the User Guide at Bexhill West.

  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed. Some of the earlier pages of this topic are now out-of-date.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.
  • The Plug Track functions are experimental and still being developed.

    For an updated overview of this project see this topic.   For some practical modelling aspects of using Plug Track see Building 3D Track.

    The assumption is that you have your own machines on which to experiment, or helpful friends with machines. Please do not send Templot files to commercial laser cutting or 3D printing firms while this project is still experimental, because the results are unpredictable and possibly wasteful.

    Some pages of this and other topics include contributions from members who are creating and posting their own CAD designs for 3D printing and laser-cutting. Do not confuse them with Templot's own exported CAD files. All files derived from Templot are © Martin Wynne.

What's on my workbench

Quick reply >

Hayfield

Member
Location
Essex
Its been suggested that I start a thread on a project I am working on, this is something that uses code 83 flatbottom rail with Peco Pandrol clips. its a representation of a small section of Clapham junction (north west end) and owing to a lack of trade support is a best effort using the parts available

330.jpeg


My usual method is to build on a flat board, this one is the rear of a clip together flooring 4' x 1' of composite material. I tape the template to the board with masking tape, then cover it with thick tracing paper. I then cut thin strips of double sided tape so I can attach sleepers and timbers at both ends.

331.jpeg


I am using Exactoscale plastic timbers which are 1.6mm thick, sleepers are cut down (this formation is to 00-SF gauge) from one of the Exactoscale 8'6" track panels and I have removed the locating pins. You can see that the 3rd timber from the toes are missing, these will be the hidden tiebars

Sorry its not one for the rivet counters or armchair warriors.
 
_______________
message ref: 476
Hello John
I'm really pleased you took up Rob's suggestion and am looking forward to seeing more. I went to school at Emanuel School which itself lies between the peninsula formed by Brighton and Portsmouth lines running south out of Clapham Junction. Strongly disliked the school but always enjoyed the train journey....well on the way back at any rate.

So you say north west so in the platform 1-4 ish area...lines to Olympia bit? Are you planning a particular era or taking a more flexible approach? In fact when you mentioned on Yeovil thread that you'd sourced a correct flat bottomed rail it made me think that I'm sure a number of people around here would want to know where.

Kind regards
Andrew
 
_______________
message ref: 480
Hello John
I'm really pleased you took up Rob's suggestion and am looking forward to seeing more. I went to school at Emanuel School which itself lies between the peninsula formed by Brighton and Portsmouth lines running south out of Clapham Junction. Strongly disliked the school but always enjoyed the train journey....well on the way back at any rate.

So you say north west so in the platform 1-4 ish area...lines to Olympia bit? Are you planning a particular era or taking a more flexible approach? In fact when you mentioned on Yeovil thread that you'd sourced a correct flat bottomed rail it made me think that I'm sure a number of people around here would want to know where.

Kind regards
Andrew
Andrew

I may have been a bit misleading with my comments as the rail was referring to a mistake I made, flatbottom track is a real minefield, its an interpretation, especially as the Peco Pandrol clips are a bit overscale, but given the majority of 00 gauge modellers are happy using H0 scale track its a step in the right direction

The rail is the EMGS code 83, I assume it is correct but it is what is asked for. As for me saying" its correct" was that a while back when making something else I ordered some EMGS code 83, but they supplied code 75 bullhead, in error I paid little interest and started building a turnout when Martin suggested I was using the wrong rail. I should have noticed but I had a lot going on at home at the time.

I may have my geography wrong, but I thought platform 1 is on the eastern side ,I think from memory its platform 14 but I could just as well have got it round the wrong way, the layout owner is building part of the station, but I don't know how much of the station is being built and I could only find a map with an earlier layout, so a bit of guess work had to be done, plus fitting the area allocated for it

I think its the end of steam early diesel era,
 
_______________
message ref: 482
Hi John,
Thanks for starting this topic, great to see what you are doing.

Can you measure the head width of the EMGS code 83 rail you recently ordered and let me know ? I was very surprised to get an ordre from John at EMGS stores last week as the code 83 he sent had a correct ( for UK ) 0.9mm head width. I had assumed it would be the same narrow ( 0.7mm ) head width as the C&L FB rail that Phil sells. Either way I need both as the 0.7mm is just the job for my US plans - with some new gauges to fit.

Rob
 
_______________
message ref: 483
Rob

Using my cheap calliper its 0.93 mm

C&L do not sell code 83 but code 82

I think I have both Peco code 82 & 83 in my box as well

The EMGS code 83 just about fits the Pandrol clips
 
_______________
message ref: 485
Andrew

I may have been a bit misleading with my comments as the rail was referring to a mistake I made, flatbottom track is a real minefield, its an interpretation, especially as the Peco Pandrol clips are a bit overscale, but given the majority of 00 gauge modellers are happy using H0 scale track its a step in the right direction

The rail is the EMGS code 83, I assume it is correct but it is what is asked for. As for me saying" its correct" was that a while back when making something else I ordered some EMGS code 83, but they supplied code 75 bullhead, in error I paid little interest and started building a turnout when Martin suggested I was using the wrong rail. I should have noticed but I had a lot going on at home at the time.

I may have my geography wrong, but I thought platform 1 is on the eastern side ,I think from memory its platform 14 but I could just as well have got it round the wrong way, the layout owner is building part of the station, but I don't know how much of the station is being built and I could only find a map with an earlier layout, so a bit of guess work had to be done, plus fitting the area allocated for it

I think its the end of steam early diesel era,
Hello John
Its been a long time since I stood at Clapham Junction waiting for the train (4VEP or CEP if I recall the classification correctly?) to take me home, and I seem to recall it being platform 13 but I could be wrong? But any way platform numbers are of but fleeting interest in this context. I'd love to see your plan when you have a moment. Talking of loco's I recall the Warships going through on the Portsmouth line, sounding as I think Warships always did, as though they were about to break down. Great memories.

Kind regards
Andrew
 
_______________
message ref: 491
Andrew

Sadly this is my plan, I was sent some photos from the correct era, I then uploaded the 1910 (or close to it) into Templot. The plan differed both from the Photos of that era, current photos and Google earth. Looking at the plan and photos + Google earth I was able to make a close approximation to what was required. Then a few PDF's flowed back and forth to adapt to what was required.

As I said a bit of modellers licence rather than an exact replica

I used to go to Paddington as much as I could to see Westerns and Warships. Don't laugh I have one of each to build from MTK kits. indulge my interest in whitemetal kits,
 
_______________
message ref: 501
I have done a bit more today, finished building the common crossings, then fitted them. I have 2 short sections of plain track, thankfully they are not causing building sequence issues.

333.jpeg


The flatbottom rail needs a bit of extra work than bullhead where the switch starts, so I build the switch rails first then match them to the stock rails for a flush finish
334.jpeg


I am thinking as I go along my next 2 or 3 moves, especially as the board is 4' long and not easily spun round
 
_______________
message ref: 503
Hi Andrew.
I would be surprised if the Warships out of Waterloo were on the Portsmouth trains as they were generally used on the west of England services to Exeter. I had several trips behind them to visit relatives in Axminster and can vouch from personal experience that do break down occasionally.

Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 506
Hello John,

Good work so far. Some close up shots of the checkrail and crossing areas when you have time and have got that far. One of my plans requires a mix of BH and FB lines and I am undecided what to use for the flat bottom bits. The ( slightly overscale ) Pandrol clips look quite good to my eyes but it will be interesting to see how you get on chopping up bases for these areas.
Rob
 
_______________
message ref: 509
Looking good John.(y)

A tip for anyone wanting to zoom in on smaller images on here. Ctrl+click on them. They will open in a fresh tab, and can then be zoomed in the usual way using Ctrl+Roll on the mouse wheel.

If you just click on them, they open in the lightbox and won't zoom.

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 511
Hello John,

Good work so far. Some close up shots of the checkrail and crossing areas when you have time and have got that far. One of my plans requires a mix of BH and FB lines and I am undecided what to use for the flat bottom bits. The ( slightly overscale ) Pandrol clips look quite good to my eyes but it will be interesting to see how you get on chopping up bases for these areas.
Rob
Rob

I have mixed code 75 bullhead and code 82 flatbottom in the past using either the plastic or metal functional Exactoscale fishplates, C&L now do both

As for fixings you are limited to either Peco's Pandrol or C&L ST base plates. Another possible alternative are the fixings that come with the Peco concrete sleepers IL-121 I have no idea if Peco will sell these separately

Sadly the common crossings are very basic as are the check & switch rails, unlike the bullhead chairs special chairs a non existent. I add a few bits from spares. The crossings themselves are made up in the standard way using 4mm x 0.6 copperclad strip.

I will upload a few photos later
 
_______________
message ref: 514
Rob

A close up of one of the unfinished common crossings
335.jpeg


I am using the Exactoscale (H section) fishplates to join and insulate the switch rails from the common crossing

Picture 1977.jpg
Picture 1978.jpg


A couple of older photos showing a common crossing assembly prior to installation, first picture shows the copperclad strips before trimming flush
 
_______________
message ref: 515
I used to go to Paddington as much as I could to see Westerns and Warships. Don't laugh I have one of each to build from MTK kits. indulge my interest in whitemetal kits,
Hi John.
I have an MTK kit for a NBL type 2 and that won't get made either.

On the subject of track, I am currently making some Flatbottom track including some pointwork, but in S4 rather than 00. You have an advantage over me in as much as far less of the foot needs to be removed in areas such as the crossing and check rails.
I don't think BR turnouts were made with much other than ST baseplates or Pandrol clips until relatively recently. My project is also a mixture of Bullhead and Flatbottom track as was often the case in the 1960s. I shall follow your efforts with some interest.
I have been documenting my project in some detail on the Scalefour Society forum but have been concentrating mainly on the plain FB track up to now, having almost completed all the BH track, although that will soon change as I have a small batch of turnouts and a single slip to construct in FB using my prefered method of ply and rivet construction, so a slightly different approach.

Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 518
Last edited:
Rob

A close up of one of the unfinished common crossings
View attachment 318

I am using the Exactoscale (H section) fishplates to join and insulate the switch rails from the common crossing

View attachment 319View attachment 320

A couple of older photos showing a common crossing assembly prior to installation, first picture shows the copperclad strips before trimming flush
Thats really nice looking John. Did you say it's Martins 16.2mm gauge and so has 0.8mm flangeways? because it really looks the part. Surprising the difference 1.0mm and 0.8mm make visually if I've understood correctly.
Andrew
 
_______________
message ref: 524
Thats really nice looking John. Did you say it's Martins 16.2mm gauge and so has 0.8mm flangeways? because it really looks the part. Surprising the difference 1.0mm and 0.8mm make visually if I've understood correctly.
Andrew
Hi Andrew,

I don't possess a gauge. :)

The 00-SF standard is for 16.2mm track gauge with 1.0mm flangeways ("EM minus 2"), see: https://85a.uk/00-sf

It's not mine, it was invented by Roy Miller in the1970s.

There is also a standard called EM-SF for 18.0mm track gauge with 0.8mm flangeways. I believe Rob is having a go with it. I think John may have built something in it too -- he builds everything. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 525
Hi John.
I have an MTK kit for a NBL type 2 and that won't get made either.

On the subject of track, I am currently making some Flatbottom track including some pointwork, but in S4 rather than 00. You have an advantage over me in as much as far less of the foot needs to be removed in areas such as the crossing and check rails.
I don't think BR turnouts were made with much other than ST baseplates or Pandrol clips until relatively recently. My project is also a mixture of Bullhead and Flatbottom track as was often the case in the 1960s. I shall follow your efforts with some interest.
I have been documenting my project in some detail on the Scalefour Society forum but have been concentrating mainly on the plain FB track up to now, having almost completed all the BH track, although that will soon change as I have a small batch of turnouts and a single slip to construct in FB using my prefered method of ply and rivet construction, so a slightly different approach.

Regards
Tony.

Tony

Yes its a bit easier in 00 gauge, when I am doing larger stuff I have one of these

https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/p/diy/parkside-disc-sander/p40303
Absolute no brainer at £30 has so many uses for DIY as well
 
_______________
message ref: 529
Thats really nice looking John. Did you say it's Martins 16.2mm gauge and so has 0.8mm flangeways? because it really looks the part. Surprising the difference 1.0mm and 0.8mm make visually if I've understood correctly.
Andrew
Andrew

00SF has 1mm flangeways not 0.8mm

I think the confusion lies with me using the Exactoscale 0.8mm check rail chairs, but I do not use them as they are unmodified. I cut one outside chair of each double unit so they only clasp one rail, two middle ones are slid on to the stock rail, two or three are slid on to the check rails. I use the check rail gauge to sent the check rail, which virtually closes the gap on EM & 00SF and nearly does on 00. If you tried this method you will not get anywhere near a 0.8 mm gap as both rails are held in compression in an unmodified double chair

The fact is you can build a common crossing using a check rail chair with the outer part cut off plus a few other standard and L1 chairs (if needed) using a soldered Vee and plastic timbers, but let the solvent cure overnight. It would also work with ply timbers using industrial strength superglue.
 
_______________
message ref: 530
Hi John,
Thanks for the pics, looking good. I am guilty of muddying the waters by using EM-SF that has 0.8mm flangeways - I suspect Andrew got the 0.8mm bit from a series of posts on the old forum. In my opinion OO-SF with 1mm gaps looks just fine and runs a whole lot better than other OO variants.

Keep up the good work.

Rob
 
_______________
message ref: 533
338.jpeg
A bit more work today, not as much as I had hoped but we went on a 4 mile walk on muddy footpaths, so had a doze on my return
336.jpeg
I am trying to get a bit of added detail rather than just a few chopped up chairs. I noticed that the style of slide chairs is quite noticeable with the turnouts using Pandrol fixings. Whilst not correct these do show up a difference, I am also trying to show something to reflect block chairs, again not accurate just a representation
337.jpeg



Just a bit different and may need a tweak or two with the details

339.jpeg


Whilst there are no check rails a quick test. Running a bit short on parts, I must have 2 or 3 k of chairs but running short of Peco Pandrol clips and the new C&L 2 & 3 bolt chairs, waiting for deliveries
 
_______________
message ref: 535
Hi Andrew.
I would be surprised if the Warships out of Waterloo were on the Portsmouth trains as they were generally used on the west of England services to Exeter. I had several trips behind them to visit relatives in Axminster and can vouch from personal experience that do break down occasionally.

Regards
Tony.
Hello Tony
Well you are not the first person to challenge my memory, and you certainly won't be the last, but in my minds eye I see them trundling down the line along with CEPS and with EMU that we referred to as Portsmouth stock, were they 4 CORs? wonderful old corridor stock that swayed violently especially in the trailing coach but were so much more luxurious than VEPs CEPs etc.
Andrew
 
_______________
message ref: 542
Hi Andrew,

I don't possess a gauge. :)

The 00-SF standard is for 16.2mm track gauge with 1.0mm flangeways ("EM minus 2"), see: https://85a.uk/00-sf

It's not mine, it was invented by Roy Miller in the1970s.

There is also a standard called EM-SF for 18.0mm track gauge with 0.8mm flangeways. I believe Rob is having a go with it. I think John may have built something in it too -- he builds everything. :)

cheers,

Martin.

That's a shame Martin, you ought to have at least one gauge named after you or to your credit! You were the first person to make me aware of it though, hence the link. And yes I think you and Rob are correct, that I'm getting confused with EM-SF.

Andrew
 
_______________
message ref: 543
That's a shame Martin, you ought to have at least one gauge named after you

I do have Andrew, it's called T-55. :)

scale: 5.5mm/ft or 1:55
gauge: 1 inch
flangeway: 1 mm

There is in fact a 5.5mm society: https://www.55ng.co.uk

You may remember that George Mellor produced some GEM white-metal kits for 3ft narrow-gauge on 16.5mm track, and 2ft-3in narrow-gauge on 12mm track.

Over the years several folks have declared an intention to build a T-55 layout, although I don't think anyone ever did. Over to John? :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
_______________
message ref: 544
353.jpeg

A bit more progress today plus I was able to collect some more Pandrol clips. Before progressing with diamond I will finish off the turnouts, none have any check rails
 
_______________
message ref: 552
355.jpeg


I use much the same method of fitting the check rails as I do with bullhead track, but I don't use check rail chairs. The photos I have seen with Pandrol turnouts the check rail clips are still Pandrol. I only fit 2 fixings on each stock rail, once set I cut off the inside part of the chairs

356.jpeg

Next I superglue 3 part chairs (leaving all the foot of the chair on) not half chairs

357.jpeg


The check rails are glued in place with check rail gauges. Every 00 gauge track builder should have a set of these. they are sold as 00SF gauges but also fit 00BF (universal 00) DOGS universal so no excuse for anyone
358.jpeg


Half chairs/the bits cut off for the check rail chairs added
 

Attachments

  • 355.jpeg
    355.jpeg
    126.1 KB · Views: 206
  • 356.jpeg
    356.jpeg
    162.4 KB · Views: 196
_______________
message ref: 563
Hello Tony
Well you are not the first person to challenge my memory, and you certainly won't be the last, but in my minds eye I see them trundling down the line along with CEPS and with EMU that we referred to as Portsmouth stock, were they 4 CORs? wonderful old corridor stock that swayed violently especially in the trailing coach but were so much more luxurious than VEPs CEPs etc.
Andrew
Hi Andrew.
Yes 4CORs, together with 4BUFs and occasionally 4GRIs known collectively as Nelson's. I too remember their tendency to sway violently at times.

EDIT:
When steam was being run down on the southern, the SR were loaned a small batch of WR Brush type 4s for use on the Bournemouth line trains before the full electric service began. I photographed one of these at Waterloo whilst waiting for our train west.
I previously stated that they were brought in for use on the Southampton boat trains. It would not surprise me if they were occasionally put to such use, but their primary function was as stop gap motive power for the Bournemouth line.
END EDIT:

Regards
Tony.
 
_______________
message ref: 567
Last edited:
380.jpeg


The latest piece on my workbench ia GWR facing crossover, I am using the new C&L GWR 2 bolt chairs and Modelu slide chairs, and doing my best to simulate some of the special chairs
381.jpeg


I have cut the centre parts of the Exactoscale check chairs using 2 outer C&L 2 bolt chairs
383.jpeg


And as you can see used a slab and bracket chair from the Exactoscale range along with centre parts of some of the block chairs
382.jpeg


I am using the Modelu GWR slide chairs and some of the Exactoscale block chairs (again centre parts only)
 
_______________
message ref: 743
384.jpeg


A close up of the switch which is a GWR 14' heal, I have tried to make a best effort using the parts available, as no one makes the correct parts
386.jpeg


The first switch timber is yet to be built, as its a timber-tiebar, the second timber will have a switch rail added once the switch rails have been soldered
385.jpeg


1PL & 2PL chairs are a combination of a 2 bolt chair and a slide chair spliced together
3PL & 4PL have Exactoscale block chair centres and C&L 2 bolt outers
Rail joints are notches and etched fishplates, then we have bridge and standard chairs (for S1 read 2 bolt)
 
_______________
message ref: 751
387.jpeg


Finishing off the crossover, one request was that the rail joints were replicated and in the correct position. Temporary short rail lengths have been added, these will be replaced with a correct length panel with the correct number of timbers missing

387 (2).jpeg


In the background is a Wills Finecast 202 etched chassis used to test the track, its very free wheeling and useful. But may be destined for a DJH kit

A closer view showing the C&L fishplates being used functionally, brown chair parts are Exactoscale, more or less as in one of the illustrations in the GWR track book
 
_______________
message ref: 810
I don't knw if I'm alone in this but I find that the images that you're posting are very small and the very low image resolution makes scaling the photos fruitless to be able to see what's going on. The image info suggests that you are using an iPhone 7 and are probably posting 'small' images. Perhaps 'medium' would be more helpful to those of us with aging eyes! Thanks.
Dave
 
_______________
message ref: 824
Dave

Yes its an iPhone and I send them in a medium size. I tried to send then the next one up and overfills the areas. I will take a couple more and send them in a higher quality format

Owing to their colour the C&L chairs are not very photogenic
 
_______________
message ref: 828
For those who wanted a higher resolution photos I have retaken 3.

Components:- Timbers are from Exactoscale, chairs & plastic fishplates are the new C&L 2 bolt version, slide chairs Modelu 3D printed. Etched fishplates are EMGS. Rail C&L HiNi. Extra chair details Exactoscale

388.jpeg


A shot of the switch area The first two slide chair positions are waiting to be finished, the missing timber will be a copperclad timber-tiebar, with brass slide chairs to allow the timber to be used as a tiebar, slide chairs left off the 2nd timber until after the switch blades have been soldered to the slide chairs.

Chair positions 1PL & 2PL made from cut down standard and slide chairs, 3PL & 4PL have Exactoscale centre parts of the switch block chairs (brown) with standard 2 bolt chairs either side.

You could hinge the switch blade using either Exactoscale or C&L cast brass or plastic fishplates if preferred

389.jpeg


A closer view of 3PL & 4PL. The rails are notched with etched fishplates added. The stock rail has 1 L1 chair( bridge) then standard 2 bolts, the switch rail has 2 L1 chairs followed by 2 bolts

390.jpeg


Closer view of the common crossings. The brown fishplates are the new C&L plastic functional, these are the standard ones and seem a bit finer than the Exactoscale, reinforced fishplates are also available. The outer and inner chairs are standard 2 bolt chairs cut in half, the Exception being the slab and bracket chair and the centre parts of the block chairs in positions C & Y using Exactoscale chairs. Again L1 chairs used where appropriate

The short lengths of rail are used for building purposes, they will be replaced with 60' rails

I will add photos of the timber-tiebar when I make them
 
_______________
message ref: 842
The trackwork looks like platform 15/16 (the last 2 on the south side) where there's a double junction onto the Brighton lines. There's a short spur to a dead end should anything decide not to stop at the signal! It will find the brick wall supporting Lavender Hill bridge.
 
_______________
message ref: 1928
Hi John,
If you are doing the Windsor lines at Clapham Junction (ie platforms 1-6) you may lknow that there was an unelectrified loop between platforms 2 and 3 . It had connections to both tracks either side. At the Waterloo end the centre line ended in a genuine 'Y' point where both switch rails were normally kep open to derail anything that tried to leave the loop siding when it shouldn't. Unfortumately I never took a photograph of it, and the layout was altered for the London Overground services.
 
_______________
message ref: 1937
Back
Top