Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 16 Nov 2010 04:46 from: Martin Wynne
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Dear all, Yesterday I went for a long walk along the riverside in the autumn sunshine. I returned resolved to make a change in Templot which I have been thinking about for a long time. In fact I very nearly made the changes in 091c, but had second thoughts. There are lots of pros and cons. In the next Pug there will be no less than FOUR options for transfer to the control template when clicking on a background template: 2_152153_410000000.png  The new make the control menu option will 1. do store & background on the existing control template, then 2. delete the clicked template to the control template. This will give those fearful of the word "delete" something more positive-sounding to click on.  More importantly it allows a new mode of working in Templot, which will be the default: 2_152153_410000001.png  In the new make on click mode, left clicking on a background template will immediately do make the control, without displaying the full menu. To display the full menu, right-click on the template, or SHIFT+click on the template name label. Also in this mode, saving a .box file will first do store & background on the control template, and then save the file. On reloading a .box file, if this mode was in force when it was saved, the last template loaded will be deleted to the control template, thus restoring the state of play when it was saved. This is instead of the mint from last template loaded option which is the current default and will remain for older files or files not saved while in this mode. In the classic Templot mode, everything will continue to work exactly as it does now, with the addition of the make the control menu option which will often be a useful time saver. I have given these new modes the PageUp and PageDown shortcuts so that experienced users can quickly swap modes if they wish. (These shortcuts were previously on the little-used zoom-free option.) The new make on click mode will be the default (unless you set your preferences otherwise) and will I think address some of the concerns of new users and make Templot track planning work in a way more similar to many Windows programs. It will of course be a damn nuisance when building complex formations from multiple partial templates, and I fully expect experienced users to switch back to the classic Templot mode for such work. And probably much else. The much bigger downside for me is that it renders hundreds of tutorial screenshots and thousands of video frames even more out of date than they are already. At the very least they will all need an introductory note that they were created in classic-Templot mode. On the other hand, new users will be able to go for some time creating a track plan without ever seeing the full menu or such mysterious terms as "wipe to the control". Another related change is that pressing the DELETE key will reduce the length of the control template to zero. (CTRL+U to undo, in the usual way, or simply extend the length again with F4). A zero-length template still exists of course, and you can create zero-length templates now if you wish (try it with F4 ). However, in future Templot will decline to store such templates* :2_160414_200000000.png  This means that a template can be deleted from a track plan in the make on click mode by clicking on it (to make it the control) and then pressing the DELETE key** -- which again avoids the need to access the full menu. **While no mouse action is in force. The DELETE key will continue as now to hide/show the mouse action panel while a mouse action is in force. *If you have been using that method to store custom templates unobtrusively, set the overall length to 0.01mm instead -- geometry > template lengths (in mm)... menu item. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 17 Nov 2010 05:35 from: Martin Wynne
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Martin Wynne wrote:Another related change is that pressing the DELETE key will reduce the length of the control template to zero. (CTRL+U to undo, in the usual way, or simply extend the length again with F4). I have now added a new tool button on the top row for this: 2_170012_360000001.png  Experienced users will never have any reason to click it, but it will reassure new users who often ask how to "delete" the control template. On the other hand I think a "one-click" tool button to do "store & background" would be handy for everyone, so I have added that also: 2_170012_360000000.png  This also now has the INSERT key as a single-key shortcut (in addition to the existing CTRL-V). regards, Martin. |
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posted: 17 Nov 2010 08:39 from: Alan Turner
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Are you sure about this? Wouldn't it be better for the "Z" button to emulate the HOME key in hiding the control template? I've always regarded this as the delete key for the Control Template i.e. delete from view. I can see big problems ahead for you from "where's my control template gone?" with your proposal. Alan |
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posted: 17 Nov 2010 10:51 from: Martin Wynne
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Alan Turner wrote: Are you sure about this?Hi Alan, No, I'm not sure.  This is the problem in trying to make Templot "more like Windows" which is the constant refrain from some quarters. As soon as you get down to the details it all gets very messy. I've been umming and aahing about these changes for years and I'm still not sure it's the right direction to go. But the only way to find out is to try it and see. If you set the "classic Templot" mode you can continue as you are without seeing any changes at all. Wouldn't it be better for the "Z" button to emulate the HOME key in hiding the control template?You can already hide the control template by mouse click without accessing the menus -- click the coloured info bar on the info panel. It changes to grey while the control template is hidden: 2_170458_440000000.png  so a tool button to do the same thing isn't needed. I've always regarded this as the delete key for the Control Template i.e. delete from view.Hiding the control template doesn't change it in any way or prevent it from being stored while it is not showing. Try pressing the HOME key and then do store & background. The intention of the new mechanism is to prevent it from being stored. It is not possible actually to delete the control template (there is nothing to delete), but by setting the length to zero it can be made to appear non-existent and it can be prevented from being stored. After clicking the new Z button or pressing the DELETE key, any attempt to store it will now produce this alert: 2_170516_480000000.png  This new functionality is necessary because the new "make on click" mode will automatically store the existing control template when a background template is clicked. By clicking a background template and then the Z button or DELETE key, that won't happen on the subsequent click -- which makes it possible to delete background templates one at a time without accessing the full menu. The actual icons on the new tool buttons may change, these are just off the top of my head -- a Z for zero and red for delete, and a down V-arrow to suggest sticking a template down (and CTRL-V). regards, Martin. |
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posted: 1 Dec 2010 03:45 from: Martin Wynne
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I'm warming to the new make on click mode. Especially when timber shoving you can instantly swap from one template to the next, although it's important not to mis-click on the timber numbers. But in this mode the Z button (or DELETE key) to invalidate the control template (by reducing it to zero length) is essential to prevent some unwanted stores on the background. To make an invalidated template more prominent, the fixing peg now changes to a red Z symbol when the template length is zero, and the text on the information panel top bar also changes to red. Also, it's very advisable to change back to classic Templot mode when working with multiple partial templates, so I have added a bright tool button for that purpose at the top left. The working mode can then be changed quickly to and fro with one click instead of having to navigate the menu or remember the shortcut: 2_302240_120000000.png  regards, Martin. |
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posted: 1 Dec 2010 11:18 from: richard_t
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Martin Wynne wrote: I'm warming to the new make on click mode. Especially when timber shoving you can instantly swap from one template to the next, although it's important not to mis-click on the timber numbers. That sounds good, as I find myself flipping back and forth between templates when sorting out the timbers. All the best Richard. |
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posted: 7 Jan 2011 01:05 from: Martin Wynne
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Time for an update on this. Here are the new help notes if a user tries to "make crossover" or similar while the control template is set to zero-length. I'm aware that some users find my style of explanation difficult to follow. So I thought I would post what I'm working on and invite comments. Are these words intelligible or incomprehensible? If the latter, would anyone care to suggest a different form of words which makes the meaning clearer? 2_070345_370000000.png  I have renamed the new mode as Quick mode -- notice the violet Q showing top left. This button changes to an orange T if clicked, reverting to Classic Templot mode. You can also swap to and fro by pressing the PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN keys to change mode. When working in Classic Templot mode there will be little need for the above zero-length functions, but they will be available if wanted. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 7 Jan 2011 04:20 from: Glen Suckling
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Martin Wynne wrote: I'm aware that some users find my style of explanation difficult to follow. So I thought I would post what I'm working on and invite comments.Hi Martin, They are perfectly clear to me. Glen. |
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posted: 7 Jan 2011 08:07 from: Jim Guthrie
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Martin Wynne wrote: Are these words intelligible or incomprehensible?Martin, That looks OK. Jim. |
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posted: 9 Jan 2011 15:42 from: Phil O
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Martin Wynne wroteHi MartinAre these words intelligible or incomprehensible I have managed to get it despite just coming home from a 'DTS' ( dinner time session ) in my local Wetherspoon's Cheers Phil |
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posted: 9 Jan 2011 16:54 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin For some reason I hadn't picked up on this thread before, and I'm filled with alarm! Well, mild unease, anyway In the new make on click mode, left clicking on a background template will immediately do make the control, without displaying the full menu. To display the full menu, right-click on the template, or SHIFT+click on the template name label.That sounds like a good move, but shouldn't that be the other way around? I can imagine great confusion being caused when a user accidentally or otherwise clicks on a background template and then wonders why their control template has changed. The new make on click mode will be the default (unless you set your preferences otherwise) and will I think address some of the concerns of new users and make Templot track planning work in a way more similar to many Windows programs.Again, I would have thought that "Classic" ought to be the default mode, especially as it much more closely matches the tutorials etc. I do think it's important that new users can go to the tutorials and follow them without having to be told to change some settings first. That's when you can get them to look for the tutorials at all, that is  Also, are you hinting here that preferences can now be saved? I hope so! It will of course be a damn nuisance when building complex formations from multiple partial templates, and I fully expect experienced users to switch back to the classic Templot mode for such work. And probably much else.That was exactly the reason I thought this would not be a good idea! But... Especially when timber shoving you can instantly swap from one template to the next, although it's important not to mis-click on the timber numbers.Yes, that does sound good, also useful when doing the odd manual shuffle and tweak to get adjacent templates to line up "by eye" in awkward situations. I still think "Classic" should be default, although in your efforts to make Templot more Windows-like you've not only used the term "Classic" but made that the non-default option! I just wonder how often "Wipe to control" is used? That does seem to cause people confusion, but to be honest if it disappeared I wouldn't miss it. What do others think? Whatever you do though, please don't change existing keyboard shortcuts again! Cheers |
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posted: 9 Jan 2011 19:29 from: Bill_Lobb
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I'm with Paul. I'd prefer 'Classic' to be the default. I'd nearly always use it that way, so it would save me a click. In answer to Paul's final question, I use 'Wipe to the Control' lots, as if what I am trying goes horribly wrong I can recover what I had before without needing to reload any templates. Bill |
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posted: 9 Jan 2011 20:50 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote:I'm filled with alarm! Well, mild unease, anywayHi Paul, In truth, I'm uneasy too. But I have to do something to ease the support load. I can't spend the rest of my life explaining over and over again how Templot works to confused new users. Again, I would have thought that "Classic" ought to be the default mode, especially as it much more closely matches the tutorials etc.There is no point in doing it unless the new Quick mode becomes the default, because it is primarily intended for beginners. The tutorials are now so old and out of date that they all need rewriting anyway. If there is to be a change in Templot it needs to be made before I do the rewrites. It will take only one click to revert to the classic mode, and if you save your preferences between sessions it won't even be necessary to do that. (Beginners are very strongly advised not to save their preferences.) But that's what beginner users expect to happen.In the new Quick mode, left clicking on a background template will immediately do make the control, without displaying the full menu. To display the full menu, right-click on the template, or SHIFT+click on the template name label.That sounds like a good move, but shouldn't that be the other way around? I can imagine great confusion being caused when a user accidentally or otherwise clicks on a background template and then wonders why their control template has changed. The usual Windows way is that a left-click performs the default action, and a right-click displays the full menu of available actions (with the default action shown bold). I'm fairly sure experienced users won't like the new Quick mode, but may grow into it. It is easily avoided anyway by reverting to classic Templot mode. The only way to find out is to try it and see. If it all gets shot down in flames, I can remove it from subsequent versions. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 00:12 from: John McCrea
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Hi Martin You wrote: Are these words intelligible or incomprehensible? I would by no means consider myself an expert with Templot but can usually produce a passable plan with it. Herewith my contribution, for what it may be worth... Essentially, I like your proposal. It's a rare occasion that, when I investigate my Storage Box, there isn't an unexpected little blue template peeping cheekily from within so I applaud your strength of character in determining to refine your software for the less experienced at this (relatively) late stage. I think that the 'new' mode should be the default. I would also appreciate the ability to save preferences globally so that the application opened in Classic mode if that was the last mode employed (if that's what you're suggesting). Perhaps it could then startup without the user having to click through the "ready-steady-go"/font/display/refresh requesters (far more clicks there than the single one to switch from 'new' to Classic). As to the words, no real issue, although 'invalidated' in the Help file jars for me. How about 'deactivated' and 'activated' or an even more Bill Gates-like 'minimised' and 'maximised'. I wouldn't die in a ditch about it however. One last (probably incomplete) thought. In 'new' mode, if a person clicks on a template to make it active and then intentionally or accidentally clicks on another without having made any changes to the first, no problem. If however, experimental or ongoing changes have been made to the current template and the user then accidentally clicks on a second, those changes to the first would presumably be saved. Would the 'Undo' system allow you to back up (and how far)? Keep up the good work - it's all too easy to get p*ssed off in winter and do nothing and I (and many others, I'm sure) appreciate your efforts. Regards John |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 04:44 from: Martin Wynne
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John McCrea wrote: Essentially, I like your proposal. It's a rare occasion that, when I investigate my Storage Box, there isn't an unexpected little blue template peeping cheekily from within so I applaud your strength of character in determining to refine your software for the less experienced at this (relatively) late stage.Hi John, Thanks for your comments. The "little blue templates" are of course extremely useful. But they do worry beginners who see them there but can't understand where they came from or what they are for. Templot will start in classic mode if that was the mode in use when you quit the last session AND you have elected to save your preferences when doing so AND you elect to use them when starting. "Ready-steady-go" will remain and can't be removed because it starts the generator running. But it will now have two "go" buttons, for starting with or without using saved preferences. The other startup dialogs have been removed, as the developments in computers over the last 10 years have rendered them largely redundant. More about all that: message 4370 message 4582 As to the words, no real issue, although 'invalidated' in the Help file jars for me. How about 'deactivated' and 'activated' or an even more Bill Gates-like 'minimised' and 'maximised'. I wouldn't die in a ditch about it however.The words are always my stumbling block. I did try "deactivated" and "nullified" (the latter being nearest to the "zero" sense) before settling on "invalidated". I may have second thoughts (I usually do). In 'new' mode, if a person clicks on a template to make it active and then intentionally or accidentally clicks on another without having made any changes to the first, no problem. If however, experimental or ongoing changes have been made to the current template and the user then accidentally clicks on a second, those changes to the first would presumably be saved. Would the 'Undo' system allow you to back up (and how far)?In that situation you simply click back on the one you were working on, and continue working on it. "Undo changes" is the same as before. You can roll back through the last 80 changes to the control template. But it doesn't store them again. That would have to be done either manually as now ("store and background", for which I have added a new \.../ tool-button), or automatically if a different background template is clicked on and Quick mode is in force. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 16:57 from: Phil O
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Martin Wynne wrote: The tutorials are now so old and out of date that they all need rewriting anyway. If there is to be a change in Templot it needs to be made before I do the rewrites.Hi Martin Will you be updating the Tutorials so that they will be released simultaneously as the next version other I can see even more confusion if one is released before the other. Cheers Phil |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 17:36 from: Martin Wynne
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Phil O wrote:Will you be updating the Tutorials so that they will be released simultaneously as the next version other I can see even more confusion if one is released before the other.Hi Phil, I can see much confusion too. Unfortunately, unless you can supply me with 48-hour days I think there is no chance of releasing both simultaneously. The only other solution is to delay releasing the next Pug until I have written a new set of docs and made new videos, which could take months/years. I can only do my best in the time available to me. We shall have to see how it goes. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 17:56 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin"Ready-steady-go" will remain and can't be removed because it starts the generator running. But it will now have two "go" buttonsI can hear the comments now Templot will start in classic mode if that was the mode in use when you quit the last session AND you have elected to save your preferences when doing so AND you elect to use them when starting.Ah - that's great! That'll do me One quick query about that - as one of those who just keeps bashing Enter when starting Templot, will that default to using the saved preferences? Please!Cheers |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 18:25 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote:One quick query about that - as one of those who just keeps bashing Enter when starting Templot, will that default to using the saved preferences? Please!Hi Paul, If a preferences file is available at startup, the extra button will appear, and yes, it will be the default on the ENTER key. p.s. you don't need to "bash" Enter -- just hold it down. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 10 Jan 2011 19:59 from: Jim Guthrie
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Martin Wynne wrote: Phil O wrote:Martin,Will you be updating the Tutorials so that they will be released simultaneously as the next version other I can see even more confusion if one is released before the other.Hi Phil, Release the new version. It has the Classic setting which will allow people to work with tutorials and once they have gained some experience, then they can go for the click mode. As far as I understand the situation, the underlying operation of Templot is the same in both versions, what changes in the Click version is the method of calling up and/or storing the working template. It's not as if you are introducing a markedly different version of the Templot operation. Or release it as a BETA version then you always have the fall back excuse that you aime to correct some perceived problem in the full release - when can get round to it. Jim. |
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