Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1337Pre 1900 Bavarian turnout
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posted: 16 Jan 2011 15:56

from:

Franz
 
USA

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Martin;

Thanks for developing a great tool. It will take me some time to learn this. I am staying with the v74 while I try to learn.

I am attempting to build a layout with custom turnouts. I am developing a Pre 1900 Bavarian turnout. I am using drawings from the Laenderbahn Forum (see attached):

(click the image to see the large full-size scan, or view it in the Image Gallery):

2033_161048_020000000.jpg2033_161048_020000000.jpg

I have had trouble determining the terminology used for turnout designs. I came upon the entry

topic 1129

which is helpful. I am having trouble determining the Heel Offset from my dimensions.

I am also planning to use Proto87 parts for an HO layout. I do not know if I should use the Drawing dimensions or the dimensions of the Proto87 hinges. Do you know the dimensions of Andy's hinges?

Regards

Paul Franz
Attachment: attach_966_1337_W1_8,5-SPr1HauptBahnenD11-re-li.pdf 430

posted: 16 Jan 2011 18:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

Thanks for posting your 3-throw 1:8.5 turnout drawing.

The heel offset dimension isn't quoted, nor the rail width, so it is difficult to enter custom dimensions.

It's probably better to work over the image for a best match.

I've started doing that, and it's somewhere near a 15ft switch with some crossing entry straight:


2_161313_220000000.png2_161313_220000000.png


Unfortunately I have no more time today, so I will post again tomorrow.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2011 19:13

from:

Franz
 
USA

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Martin

This is Schienenform I (SF I)  rail design from Bavaria:  The maximum rail length is 6 meters.  It has taken me a bit of trial and error and I decided to upgrade to the latest TEMPLOT version in order to diagnose my errors.  Most of the dimensions are written on the drawing.  It was hard to find,  but eventually I discovered the Heel offset is 130mm, rail to Heel is 6000mm, toe to heel is 5250.  The second set of switches are shorter - something to adjust later.

I am having trouble positioning the Timbers,  I had desired entering the details in the Custom Timber Settings tool.  I can not  determine what to set the dimensions to get the timber located properly.  In the end I used the Push Timber tool.  Does the push timber tool alter the values in the custom Timber Settings file or are they is some adjustments file somewhere. 

I would like to know where to find a sketch which indicates the terms for the switch details, crossing details, timbers and sleepers used on turnouts.

From the drawing and also a little digging elsewhere, here is what I have for the Switch:
Dimensions  for  W1zu8k5_SF1 :
--------------------------------
 
Dimensions are in FULL-SIZE prototype INCHES, with model conversions at 3.5 mm/ft. Unit angles are RAM. This data may be easier to read if you widen this window (by dragging the right-hand edge).
 
This switch is a STRAIGHT pattern switch:
 
lead length to heel (incl. planing) = 206.69  ( 60.29 model mm )
offset at the heel (heel spread) = 5.12  ( 1.49 model mm )
 
stock-rail joint to toe = 29.53  ( 8.61 model mm )
length of switch-rail (blade) = 206.69  ( 60.29 model mm )
length of stock-rail from joint = 236.22  ( 68.9 model mm )
 
deflection angle at blade tip = 1 : 40.38
planing length (along stock-rail) = 111.09  ( 32.4 model mm )
heel angle 1 : 40.38
 
FB switch-rail foot-width at blade tip (from stock-rail gauge-face) = 2.75  ( 0.8 model mm )
 
sideways depth of joggle = 0.38  ( 0.11 model mm )
joggle-length in front of blade tips = 6.0  ( 1.75 model mm )
-------------------
Timber spacings (to timber centres) :
 
switch-front is timbered:
spacing back from toe (blade tips) to first front timber (J1) = 24.5  ( 7.15 model mm )
spacing back to next front timber (J2) = 27.5  ( 8.02 model mm )
spacing back to next front timber (J3) = 0  ( 0 model mm )
spacing back to next front timber (J4) = 0  ( 0 model mm )
spacing back to next front timber (J5) = 0  ( 0 model mm )
 
spacing forward from toe (blade tips) to first timber (S1) = 4.0  ( 1.17 model mm )

Next step is to determine  how to locate the Crossing. 


Last edited on 16 Jan 2011 22:34 by Franz
posted: 16 Jan 2011 22:43

from:

Franz
 
USA

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After a little bit more digging, I found I set the following details to get the Crossing Point in an approximate location:
Crossing is 1:8.5
Straight in front of FP is 28.5

This lined up most of the rail except the rail directly over the center Crossing. This could be caused by the crossing of the main design being straight, but the rail is curved.

I am also not certain I scaled the drawing properly when adding it to TEMPLOT.

posted: 17 Jan 2011 16:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Franz wrote:
It was hard to find,  but eventually I discovered the Heel offset is 130mm
Hi Paul,

Well done in spotting that -- I thought it was a smudge. :)

Using that dimension to create a custom straight switch, it actually works out quite well. Including the radius (160.71m radius, which scales to 1847mm at 1:87) which often doesn't match on old drawings:

2_171129_510000002.png2_171129_510000002.png

Unfortunately the drawing has distorted a little with age, so it's not possible to scale exactly all over.

The 260mm-wide switch timbers appear to be spaced at 750mm centres (prefix with a letter m in Templot to enter mm dimensions directly when asked for inches):

2_171129_500000000.png2_171129_500000000.png


And the same spacing at the V-crossing. I did a little bit of timber shoving to get the wider 350mm timbers:

2_171129_500000001.png2_171129_500000001.png


Over to you to carry on, overlay the opposite hand, split into partial templates, create the middle V-crossing, shove all the timbers ---  :D

There is a video available for tandem turnouts which will help you get started on all that:

  http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/3_way_tandem.exe

(Yours is a 3-throw turnout, not a tandem.)

There is also a Jing video for adjusting radius/entry straight which you may not have seen-- allow time for the video to download:




.box file attached (091c), other files to follow.

regards,

Martin.
Attachment: attach_968_1337_paul_franz_bavarian_8p5.box 353

posted: 17 Jan 2011 17:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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.bgs file:
Attachment: attach_969_1337_paul_franz.bgs 293

posted: 17 Jan 2011 17:14

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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image file:

I have saved this in ZIP format to reduce file size for upload. It will need to be extracted and re-saved as a BMP image again (into the SHAPE-FILES folder).
Attachment: attach_970_1337_paul_franz.zip 303

posted: 18 Jan 2011 03:13

from:

Franz
 
USA

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Martin;
Thanks. I was not aware of the metric dimension entrance. That is a great function.

Paul

posted: 23 Jan 2011 01:03

from:

Franz
 
USA

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Hello All;
My latest indication that I know not how to use TEMPLOT: The second templete entry keeps jumping to an inverted mate of the first template. I was trying to get the other hand of the 3-way to stack on top of the first template, but it snaps to a new position. How do I turn off this automatic feature?

posted: 23 Jan 2011 01:46

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Hi Franz,
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I think you need to move the 'peg' onto the 'notch' before creating your second template.

Cheers
Richard

posted: 23 Jan 2011 03:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Franz wrote:
My latest indication that I know not how to use TEMPLOT: The second template entry keeps jumping to an inverted mate of the first template. I was trying to get the other hand of the 3-way to stack on top of the first template, but it snaps to a new position. How do I turn off this automatic feature?
Hi Paul,

If templates are snapping into unwanted positions, you are probably using F7 mouse action. To prevent snapping taking place, hold down the SHIFT key* while using F7. However, for what you are trying to create, there is no reason to use F7.

If the first template is a background template, click on it and select copy to the control on the pop-up menu.

If the first template is only the control template, click main > store & background menu item, then press the HOME key to see it again over the new background template.

Press CTRL+0 (zero) or click the peg indicator to zero. (Unless the fixing peg is already on the zero position.)

Then to create a mirror image turnout, click template > swap hand menu item or press CTRL+H.

Or to swap a turnout to diverging on the opposite side of the main road, click template > invert handing menu item or press CTRL+X.

For a straight turnout these two functions do the same thing. For a curved turnout, they don't.

To get a full understanding, try using both of these on a variety of different turnouts, and with the fixing peg in various positions on and off the main road centre-line.


* or untick (deselect) the action > F7 snap options > snap on background templates menu item.

regards,

Martin.



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