Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1590Large layout
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posted: 18 Aug 2011 22:07

from:

s55evo
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Hi Everyone,

I have been working on a large layout plan for some time, I can print it out in sections, but I would like to share it with the club and friends, it consists of 374 templates and the box file is just over 3mb, is it possible to compress this file or do I need to split it into smaller portions?

Best regards,

Tony.

posted: 22 Aug 2011 20:27

from:

s55evo
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Hi Everyone,

I think i must have worded my question badly, or the answer was obvious.
So I will try to attach the box file.

Please feel free to criticise or question, if anyone feels like tidying things or shoving some timbers please carry on.

Best regards,

Tony.
Attachment: attach_1147_1590_Buxton_with_Amb9.box 365

posted: 22 Aug 2011 21:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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s55evo wrote:
I have been working on a large layout plan for some time, I can print it out in sections, but I would like to share it with the club and friends, it consists of 374 templates and the box file is just over 3mb, is it possible to compress this file or do I need to split it into smaller portions?
Hi Tony,

Wow! :)

Are you really going to build all that in P4?

Could you clarify what you mean by "share it with friends"?
Send them the .box file? (They will need to have their own copy of Templot.)

Send them an image file to view on their own computer?

Send them a PDF file to print themselves?

Print a large diagram for the club notice board?

Print it all on a single A4 sheet?

Post it on the club's web site?
It would be worth your while joining the Templot development group. Using TDV you can easily create image files, PDF files, and produce neat layout plans using the new diagram mode.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 23 Aug 2011 08:53

from:

s55evo
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Thanks for the reply, yes I do intend to build it all in P4, with a little help from my friends, the Crewe area group of the Scalefour society. The front part of the layout already exists, the original model of Ambergate by John Webb, which I have re-gauged.

The building to hold it all is about half built, and I have promised myself that the outer circuit will be complete in two years, hopefully with most of the other baseboards assembled.

I would like to send a PDF or image file to the Scalefour society forum in a form that they can view on their computors, I tried to print to a PDF but I think the file is too big for the old computor that holds the original box file. Any help would be much appreciated. Also as a seperate subject I am in the process of buying a 44" inkjet printer and hope to offer printing of layout plans once I have a grasp of the software.

Best regards,

Tony.

posted: 23 Aug 2011 10:59

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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s55evo wrote:
I would like to send a PDF or image file to the Scalefour society forum in a form that they can view on their computers
Hi Tony,

I have turned you purple so that you can download the Templot Development Version, which contains several new functions to export your track plan.

I have quickly made a couple of image files for you. You are welcome to link to these on the S4Webforum or anywhere else, or upload them directly.

The first one is a straight image export. The second one is an export from the new sketchboard feature. Both of these were exported at 6000 pixels wide (too big for the web) and then resized in a graphics editor to fit within the usual 800 x 600 size for the web. The tracks are represented in the new diagram mode.

2_230540_340000000.png2_230540_340000000.png


2_230540_350000001.png2_230540_350000001.png

If you download the TDV you will no doubt want to improve on these -- you can now add platforms, and on the sketchboard add structures, scenic features and labels. Download TDV from:

 topic 1500

Also as a seperate subject I am in the process of buying a 44" inkjet printer and hope to offer printing of layout plans once I have a grasp of the software.
Please keep us updated on this, I'm sure many members will be interested to take advantage of such a service. If there are any changes in Templot which would make the process easier, please let me know.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 23 Aug 2011 19:11

from:

Glen Suckling
 
Oswego - New York USA

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Also as a separate subject I am in the process of buying a 44" inkjet printer and hope to offer printing of layout plans once I have a grasp of the software.
Please keep us updated on this, I'm sure many members will be interested to take advantage of such a service. If there are any changes in Templot which would make the process easier, please let me know.
Martin,

Our local Staples Office Supply Store has a 44" inkjet printer which I use on occasions. 

VERY FEW occasions because of the cost! 

I just print to PDF_Create like I would to any other printer, first telling PDF_Create that it cannot change the scale of the drawing (it likes to make things fit the paper) and specifying the paper size (most recently 36" x 96") and resolution (300 dpi seems to work well). This gives me a .pdf file, sometimes a huge .pdf file, which I copy onto a flash drive and carry to the store. They plug the flash drive into a USB slot on the printer and out rolls my drawing. Simple!

The catch? Fifty cents USD per square foot for a B&W print, over three dollars per square foot for color.

Changing subject; I really like what I can see of the TDV, especially the sketchboard. I cannot wait to try it out.

and Tony ..... very impressive work!

Glen

posted: 23 Aug 2011 19:21

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Glen Suckling wrote:
I really like what I can see of the TDV, especially the sketchboard. I cannot wait to try it out.
Hi Glen,

Why not try it now? I've turned you purple so that you can download it if you wish from:

  topic 1500

It includes a native PDF generator, so you won't need PDF_Create. You can set any page size you wish -- 10 yards long if you want. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 23 Aug 2011 21:05

from:

s55evo
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
s55evo wrote:
I would like to send a PDF or image file to the Scalefour society forum in a form that they can view on their computers


I have turned you purple so that you can download the Templot Development Version, which contains several new functions to export your track plan.

Hi Martin,

Thanks for that and the diagrams, I expect that the TDV will take some time to digest, but I will give it a go soon.

Best regards,

Tony.

posted: 10 Nov 2011 12:22

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Hi Martin, can you talk me through the PDF generator as all I seem able to do is generate a blank page? 

Templot says it has generated it correctly, but opening the file and scrolling all areas, shows nothing.

I have attached the file and really want the area between 13' and 16' to send as a pdf file to a print company who will print it on one 18' x 3' strip.  I'll also want to show the grid lines and grid lables with the measurements in feet.
Attachment: attach_1234_1590_23_-_ET-_Western_Sunset_13_engine_bay.box 267

posted: 10 Nov 2011 13:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Hi Martin, can you talk me through the PDF generator as all I seem able to do is generate a blank page?
Hi Gordon,

Which PDF Reader program are you using?

The Adobe Reader appears to be limited to 200" maximum page size (16ft-8in). If the print shop are using Adobe programs to print PDFs this may be a length limit for them too. It might be worth checking.

The Foxit PDF Reader seems to be much more robust in handling large PDF pages and will open large PDFs which Adobe refuses to display. Free download:

 http://foxitsoftware.com/downloads/#reader

The Nitro Reader also handles large PDFs but seems slower and more demanding of system resources.

Try opening your PDF file in the Foxit Reader. :)

I have to go out now, but I will write some notes about the PDF output when I get back. I'm sorry that TDV comes without any help notes at present.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Nov 2011 14:47

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin and Gordon.
I have been playing with the PDF file generator in the TDV. I discovered that if I tried to print an entire oval layout as one huge page it came out blank. If however I printed it as four smaller pages and effectively quartered it, it worked fine, so I probably exceeded the max page size first off. You may be finding the same problem.
Tony.
Last edited on 10 Nov 2011 15:04 by Tony W
posted: 10 Nov 2011 15:01

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon.
In version 0.91c to change the grid line spacing use the Pad > Pad grid options > 1 foot spacings menu. If you then save the file it will load with the new setting as the default, at least it did when I just tried it.
Tony.


posted: 10 Nov 2011 16:12

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Tony, I am aware of that. I only mentioned it to say that I would like the grid lines to be included in the file. In the TDV you have to select whether or not you wish them to be included in the pdf generation. Apologies if this wasn't clear.

I'm using Adobe 10.1.1 so will try the other reader programme.

Edit:  Downloaded the new reader and all is fine as far as I can see.  How do I 'trim' the file to just show the 13'-16' section?  I used 'select group' to give a rough approximation of the area, but of course templates go outside the specific area I want to print.
Last edited on 10 Nov 2011 16:25 by Gordon S
posted: 10 Nov 2011 18:38

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Thanks Tony, I am aware of that. I only mentioned it to say that I would like the grid lines to be included in the file. In the TDV you have to select whether or not you wish them to be included in the pdf generation. Apologies if this wasn't clear.

I'm using Adobe 10.1.1 so will try the other reader programme.

Edit:  Downloaded the new reader and all is fine as far as I can see.  How do I 'trim' the file to just show the 13'-16' section?  I used 'select group' to give a rough approximation of the area, but of course templates go outside the specific area I want to print.
Hi Gordon. I only wondered because I downloaded the file and the grid is set to mm.
I have been trying to generate a pdf file of the top strip the 13'-16' which is what I presume you are after. After a couple of abortive attempts I managed to do it in theTDV by altering the page origin to X=0 and Y=3962.4mm (13'). and then setting the pdf page size to Long side 2743.2mm (9') Short side 914.4mm (3'). I tried to do it with an 18' page length and got a blank page, but it works as two 9' pages, but the files are huge 64 MB. Hope this helps. I'm sure Martin will give you the definitive answer.
Tony.

posted: 10 Nov 2011 19:15

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Tony W wrote:
I tried to do it with an 18' page length and got a blank page, but it works as two 9' pages, but the files are huge 64 MB. Hope this helps. I'm sure Martin will give you the definitive answer.
Hi Tony, Gordon,

The blank page is because you are viewing it in Adobe Reader. If you view the same file in Foxit Reader or Nitro Reader it's probably not blank.

With these large track plans it is important to group only the templates needed on the page, and then output the selected group only. Otherwise the file sizes will be massive. Likewise try to have only one page in each file.

I will write a proper reply when I've had a meal.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2011 04:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

I'm sorry I didn't get a proper reply to your PDF question written.

It doesn't make sense to write it all here, and then again in the Companion, so I'm going to try to get a proper topic done on the new Companion site at:

 http://templot.com/companion/

It will probably take me 2 or 3 days to prepare a full topic.

If you need to get a file sooner:

1. check with the print shop what their maximum printable area is. It's ninepence to a gooseberry they won't have the faintest idea. If they are using Adobe software it's very likely the maximum page length is 200 inches (16ft-8in). If so you may need to get say two 9ft prints done, instead of a single 18ft print. Tell them to try Foxit software instead.

2. set the desired grid spacings on the workpad.

3. move the page origin to the bottom left corner of the desired print area.

4. group-select only the templates which are in the desired area using the group-selection fence.

5. set the group templates option on the PDF dialog. This will very significantly reduce the file size.

6. set the desired PDF page size (see 1. above) on the PDF dialog. Sorry it has to be in mm -- tools > metric calculator if that's a problem. The maximum printable width will very likely be less than the roll paper width.

7. create each page as a separate PDF file.

8. tell the print shop at least 3 times -- set the page scaling to none when printing the PDF. This is not the default setting, so it may take quite some effort to get this point across. :(

9. carefully measure the grid lines on the print for accuracy -- don't assume it is correct.

p.s. Gordon -- I noticed your file is all in 00-BF instead of 00-SF. That will make a slight difference to the lead lengths of the templates. That doesn't matter too much for turnouts, but it's very important for diamond-crossings and slips to create the template at the same track gauge which you intend to build them.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2011 09:45

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks Martin.  I think I have done it, but was unsure about moving the page origin.  Ctrl F2 seemed to just move the whole thing about the screen, including the grid scale.  Not sure if this was right, but in the end I used groups to move the trackplan down to 0'-3'.  In terms of changing scale, I selected all templates with grouping and then set it to 00-SF.  Was that correct or is there another way to make a global scale change?

Either way, here is the file.  Seems large at 5MB, but it did go through OK.  Waiting for a price now...

 
Attachment: attach_1236_1590_station_plan.pdf 380

posted: 11 Nov 2011 10:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
I think I have done it, but was unsure about moving the page origin.
Hi Gordon,

That's at output > page orientation/origin > set page origin... menu item.

Or you can use SHIFT+CTRL-F10 mouse action. The page origin is marked with a small purple square. Then to set it precisely click the bottom line on the mouse action panel in the usual way instead of going to the above menu item:

2_110526_410000000.png2_110526_410000000.png


In terms of changing scale, I selected all templates with grouping and then set it to 00-SF. Was that correct or is there another way to make a global scale change?
You need to group them and then use the convert group button on the full gauges list:

2_110534_480000000.png2_110534_480000000.png


Either way, here is the file. Seems large at 5MB, but it did go through OK. Waiting for a price now...
Looks OK, although the solid black timbers are going to use a lot of ink and maybe cockle the paper. It may have been better to have set cross-hatching timber infill instead of solid for a black & white print.

Also it is more than 16ft-8in long, so they may not be able to print it if they are using Adobe software. :(

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2011 10:55

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Thanks again Martin. I'll wait to hear from them and then send a revised file with cross hatched sleepers. I probably don't need the sleeper numbers either....:)

posted: 11 Nov 2011 11:11

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Gordon S wrote:
Thanks again Martin. I'll wait to hear from them and then send a revised file with cross hatched sleepers. I probably don't need the sleeper numbers either....:)

Sorry Gordon, there seems to be a bug in the PDF generator -- for the black & white setting the timbers should have been cross-hatched anyway, and on each page one of them is. I will investigate.

In practice I think it would be much neater to use the grey shades option rather than black & white. Grey shades use only different intensities of black ink, so the price should still be the same if you ask for black & white printing, as for printing PDFs of black & white photographs.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2011 11:24

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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It seems I posted my previous message at 11:11 on 11/11/11.

Not intentional. :)
 

posted: 11 Nov 2011 11:50

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Just out of interest, I still have the same problem with my Dell 2230D laser printer with it completely missing rails in random positions.  Out of say 50 pages, two or three sheets will be like this.  I've tried printing just the single page with the same result.  Changing to my Canon printer and it works fine, which would suggest a driver or software fault in the Dell printer.  I've uploaded the latest drivers etc and it's made no difference, but trying to explain this to a 'tech support' person at Dell will be a waste of time.  Do I just live with it or do you have any ideas?

479_110648_540000000.jpg479_110648_540000000.jpg


posted: 11 Nov 2011 12:45

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Gordon,

I'm as baffled by that as you. :?

I might be able to think of something if it was entire templates, but odd rails within a single template just doesn't make sense.

It could possibly be a timing issue in the spooler. Have you tried printing directly to the printer -- or did we try that last time? That's on the Advanced tab in the Printer Properties for that printer in the Windows Control Panel:

2_110740_130000000.png2_110740_130000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 11 Nov 2011 14:19

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Just tried that Martin and no luck....still the same.  If it will help one of them is sheet w13 on this file....and V13 where one of the stock rails is missing from a turnout. 

Weird...
Attachment: attach_1237_1590_23_-_ET-_Western_Sunset_13_engine_bay.box 214
Last edited on 11 Nov 2011 14:22 by Gordon S


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