Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 12 Nov 2007 04:04 from: renluethi
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Hello, I have built many turnouts with the help of Templot (and Martin of course) for my model railroad layout currently under construction. It includes a main station with a shunting yard, both totaling 42 turnouts and approx. 102 routes. I would like to set the desired route by entrance – exit route switching, in other words by pressing two buttons on a control panel. The selected route should be flashing until the affected turnouts are in the end position and then steady lighted. I have this kind of control panel already on the layout, for a small station with seven turnouts and nine routes. The electronic filled two euro cards with components. I think for these 102 routes it will fill several cake tins with components and it will be daunting complex. I have the idea that this could be made simpler with the usage of microprocessors. Has anyone realized something like that, or is there a source for a solution? I prefer a microprocessor instead of a PC. I hope the micro is faster at start up, is more trouble free and needs less space. Regards, René. |
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posted: 12 Nov 2007 04:15 from: Martin Wynne
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renluethi wrote: I have the idea that this could be made simpler with the usage of microprocessors. Has anyone realized something like that, or is there a source for a solution? I prefer a microprocessor instead of a PC. I hope the micro is faster at start up, is more trouble free and needs less space.Hi René, That's all meat and drink to members of MERG: http://www.merg.org.uk regards, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Nov 2007 07:02 from: Templot User
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----- from Andy Reichert ----- If you are in the USA, join the CMRI elist. They do that all the time. Dr. Bruce Chubb designed all the HW and you can buy it ready made or in kits. It's all DC and DCC compatible too.  Andy http://www.proto87.com |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 03:07 from: renluethi
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Andy and Martin thank you both for your answer. Andy, I have looked for these CMRI products; if I understood it right is the basis of this system a software, running on a PC. This is what I want to avoid if possible. Martin, I have sent an email to the MERG and the answer was somewhat vague. Martin, are you a member of the MERG and do you know whether I can get a step by step instruction to assemble such a system? Or is there a reader out there who can affirm that? Regards, René. |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 15:32 from: Roger Henry
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Rene, You might want to look at the Yahoo Group "Model Railroad Electronics". See: renluethi wrote: Andy and Martin thank you both for your answer. |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 15:55 from: Roger Henry
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Stupid machines? ! ? Every time I give the web address for the Yahoo Group "mrrelectronics" the remainder of the message vanishes. I'll try the text again. Might be best to look up the group via the Yahoo directory. Rene, You might want to contact this group. Members use and write programs for device known as PIC/AXE micro controllers. Small and economical they might do what you want. 102 routes might require a fair bit of code but the experts should be able to give advice. Membership, and advice, is free. I guess it would help if you could send them a schematic and some kind of table of requirements. I would be interested in the circuitry you are presently using for your smaller layout. It might help me with something I am pondering. If you have something suitable for transmission could you please send me, off list, at rjhenry@ozemail.com.au Thanking you, Roger, Brisbane |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 15:56 from: Roger Henry
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Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mrrelectronics/ Roger |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 17:11 from: Martin Wynne
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Roger Henry wrote: Stupid machines? ! ? Every time I give the web address for the Yahoo Group "mrrelectronics" the remainder of the message vanishes.Hi Roger, ??? It's at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mrrelectronics tip: hold down the SHIFT key when testing links in your message. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 18:22 from: Roger Henry
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Hi Martin, What happened was: My first message had a couple of paragraphs after I quoted (pasted) the mrrelectronics web site. I didn't 'preview' the completed message. Just hit 'send'. When it came up on my in-box the web site address and the text following it had vanished. I tried again and did a 'pre-view' this time. Again, all text after the web site address (and the address) had again vanished. Backtracking to the original box I found that the text had vanished from there also. Hence my "stupid machines" message. I note though, that a message with just the web address went through OK. All very odd. But at least those interested now have the web address so I guess that is the main thing. regards, Roger |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 19:00 from: Martin Wynne
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Roger Henry wrote: What happened was: My first message had a couple of paragraphs after I quoted (pasted) the mrrelectronics web site. I didn't 'preview' the completed message. Just hit 'send'. When it came up on my in-box the web site address and the text following it had vanished.Hi Roger, Which browser are you using? Did you copy and paste text (right-click, copy link/shortcut), or copy and paste HTML (wipe mouse over link on web page, Ctrl+C)? It makes a big difference. The best way is to right-click and cick copy link/shortcut on the menu. Using the second method you can copy chunks of a web page into a message, including working links, and images. But you must enter a new line first -- did you do that? The exact results depend on exactly where you start and finish the selection block on the page. It's best to write your own text first, make sure you start a new line, and paste chunks of a web page at the bottom. For example here below is a bit of the Photos section on the Templot email group on Yahoo, copied and pasted into this message. The links should be working: 780a.jpg?phI9YRHBLIwIv97.  British Trackwork By: phillipchudley f036.jpg?phI9YRHByiRpQ9ZU  Carshalton & Sutton By: dasatcopthorne 2356.jpg?phI9YRHBiRpNv.32  Dutch_trackwork By: vincent_wess... fb17.jpg?phI9YRHBKeQ2jikU  four way turnout By: bruce5246 f715.jpg?phI9YRHBV9koi8XR  G&D 1 By: wilsonbrucea e6c5.jpg?phI9YRHBHE_V.csV  Gauge One By: simondunkley 7ea8.jpg?phI9YRHB9V2tBjre  Getting started By: onkaparingaline 2e6f.jpg?phI9YRHBQ.O8IW4l  LCDR-SECR Trackwork By: boredsillyby... 1bb4.jpg?phI9YRHBPFDOZhi5  Miscellaneous By: --- 6ef0.jpg?phI9YRHBKZ3eeixx  Mixed Gauge in South Australia By: martin_wynne... 43b6.jpg?phI9YRHBTbXz9Lc5  North Eastern Track By: ericdramsay c5bc.jpg?phI9YRHBP7QzXZzW  Okky RD By: ianfisher111 regards, Martin. |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 19:16 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi René, Sorry to have wandered off your electronics topic. If anyone wants to follow up discussion of copy/paste in messages, please start a fresh topic. Thanks. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 21:12 from: Templot User
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----- from Andy Reichert ----- renluethi wrote: Andy and Martin thank you both for your answer.Unless we are talking about a single track just fanning out into a (large) number of sidings, the logic of crossed paths and maybe even interlocking becomes extremely complex. I think you will have a hard time finding a hardware only solution for such a large number of turnouts and routes. Computers replaced just about every form of "patch panel" set up machines 40 years back, just because of the same complexity and and economics. You can custom design it (a huge undertaking) for one situation, but then altering it for a small track plan change, would take a lot of effort. Adapting it for some one-one elses' layout would be a complete start-over situation. Such a commercial product would be prohibitively expensive due to the need for design help for each customer. Why is that? Well, you can't design anything to do that function unless you can first write down ALL the various cases of the routes and turnout settings that you need to have. Only then do you have a specification of what the solution has to do. Have you tried doing that yet? Next, with that information, you could program a hardware logic chip (PLA), with enough pins to read all the controls and operate all the turnout motors, given that you will need individual separate driver circuits to convert each logic output to a drive each turnout motor. Clearly you're already allowing for the cost of those, given that they would remote controlled anyway. However, it will be far easier and cheaper to use CMRI in that case, and programming the operation in the very simple computer language "Basic", once mastered (not to difficult), will be far easier than learning the PLA language. You could even simplify things further by using one of the commercial programs that has track diagrms on screen and you can just visually click on the turnouts to set up the route you want. Andy |
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posted: 22 Nov 2007 22:49 from: Jim Guthrie
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renluethi wrote: Hello,René, I agree with Andy that a solution where the logic is controlled by software would be a much better system to build rather than programming dedicated microprocessor(s) in the complex situation you are proposing. The complex logic you are going to require would be much easier implemented by programming in a language which can cope easily with it, rather than working in the rather limited range of programming instructions you get in microprocessors. My preference would be to look for a system which allowed you to program in a PC or Mac and have a suitable interface between the computer and the track elements. You might also find that you require a more sophisticated object oriented language rather than Basic to let you program the job more easily. And I would suggest that a small footprint PC with a flat screen monitor might be a bit smaller than your multiple biscuit tins. Jim. |
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posted: 4 Jan 2008 00:16 from: BeamEnds click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
renluethi wrote: Hello,Someone mentioned PIC processors earlier. These are microprossesors primerialy intended for embeded apps, i.e. excactly what you are after. They come in many flavours, some with lots of lovely IO ports. You can program them in assembler of you like, but the langauge of choice would be C, and that gives you access to useful data structures to define your "parts". I'm sure I've seen some Open Source compilers - infact the Small Device C Compiler is one. There's actually an Open University programme that shows what data structures are used on the real thing (well, 1980's version anyway). Cheers Richard |
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