Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 12:55 from: Michael Woolford
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A while back, I started manually draughting (using templates) the trackwork for my new layout. This involved determining the position of turnouts and once happy, sticking the templates to a large roll of paper and penciling in the plain track. Only partially complete, it is a very time consuming process and mistakes/alterations take a long time to redraw (especially if the paper is damaged when removing a previously stuck sown template). All of my turnout templates were obtained from the EMGS and C&L. The C&L templates include an outside single slip with crossing angles of 1 in 4.5 and 1 in 6.5. If possible I would like to attempt a draft of the trackwork in templot to assess the feasibility of the layout in terms of space and geometry. I have searched the forum for previous requests for help in creating an outside single slip and found a few topics. I did find one almost complete template that someone had created, but with the wrong crossing angles for my use. I had already used my paper templates and created a formation that I felt was acceptable and so I have decided to stick with the crossing angles on the template I have. If someone would be kind enough to help me out by producing a template in templot of the C&L template, I would be most grateful. I can just about manage a conventional single/double slip by following the tutorial but am clueless as to how I would go about doing this. Thanks in advance. Michael 2786_010743_180000000.jpg  2786_010743_530000000.jpg |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 12:59 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 13:00 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Michael, Welcome to Templot Club.  You missed out one vital piece of information (everyone does). What track gauge? Martin. |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 13:19 from: Michael Woolford
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Hi Martin, I've done this before on RMweb! I'm modelling in EM gauge. Thanks. Michael |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 13:20 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 13:23 from: Paul Boyd
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How fortuitous! I happen to have that C&L template for EM gauge, so given that it's not the best of weather today I'll give it a go. Watch this space... |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 15:10 from: Paul Boyd
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Right then, here it is There are a few points to note:- My paper template isn't printed with great accuracy, although it's an original from C&L. There's probably a good chance that if you print off the Templot file, it won't overlay exactly your C&L template. However, I chose to keep the diamond crossing angle at 1:4.5 rather than make it fit my copy of the paper template. The centre V-crossings work better at 1:7.5, instead of the 1:6.5 of the paper template, so that's what I've done. It also gives an easier slip road radius - 80.5". The switches are REA B switches. I've used the wonderful, brilliant new tagging feature, so you can use the Group => group by prefix tag => outside slip menu option to lump all the templates together into a single group. I've made the check and wing rail ends match the paper template although it looks horrible! When you come to build the formation, watch the K-crossing check rail clearance against the slip road - there isn't any on the template! I would be inclined to shorten that check rail by a timber spacing at each end. If you don't already know this, you'll need to learn how to handle groups of templates. You can always ask here! Hope this helps  |
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| Attachment: attach_1701_2369_outside_slip_em_2014_01_01_1458_43.box 357 | |||
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 15:57 from: Michael Woolford
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Many thanks for that Paul, I hope it wasn't too much trouble. What was the benefit of increasing the centre crossings to 1 in 7.5? I realise that it gives a shallower radius to the slip road but looking at it that seems to be the reason for the K-crossing check rail fouling on the wing rail. I've put a cropped photo of part of the manually planned trackwork. The formation will be for very slow speed running as it is at the end of one of the platforms for my terminus station. Once again many thanks for taking the time to lend a hand. Michael |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 16:05 from: Michael Woolford
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Whoops...no image...although it doesn't seem to want to work. I'll have to try something else. |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 16:05 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 16:06 from: Michael Woolford
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Finally got it to work! Here I was having a play with some Peco flexitrack I had lying around to see roughly how thing could look without having to draw it in. The bottom of the image shows an ordinary turnout (a B6 in this case, which could change) leading in to the slip. That formation is at the end of platform 5 and 6 which allows access to the turntable (just beyond the double slip next to the other outside single slip which also leads in to a platform).2786_011103_570000000.jpg |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 16:11 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 16:52 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Michael The reason for going to 1:7.5 was that I was struggling to get the centre crossings to line up with any of the switches whilst still giving a nice curve through the slip road. Anyway, I've had another go, and at the expense of a 38" minimum radius through the slip road, the 1:6.5 crossings are in. There still isn't much clearance for the K crossing, but there isn't on the paper copy either! It's no trouble - Templotting seems to have become a hobby in its own right  (Edit - I forgot to tidy things up - new box file attached!) |
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| Attachment: attach_1704_2369_outside_slip_em_2014_01_01_1655_49.box 318 | |||
| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 16:56 by Paul Boyd |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 17:10 from: Michael Woolford
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Paul, Many thanks for that. I will have a play trying to recreate the formation in the picture I posted in templot. Hopefully it is not too difficult to start putting together a decent plan now. I think it would be a great idea if someone could create the range of C&L templates in Templot to share with everyone or maybe Martin could work in a feature one day that we could just select a template to drop on to the trackpad for a range of standard S&C. Obviously the need to build up complex formations would still be there (one of the things Templot would of been designed for). Of course it might not be possible and would probably be a lot of work if it was but it is still something I would love to see one day. Thanks again Paul. Michael |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 23:50 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 18:58 from: Raymond
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The whole point of Templot is to produce accurate, prototypical, track work. What is the point of having inaccurate templates on call? There are plenty of other software suites that will do that. | ||
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 19:01 from: Michael Woolford
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They wouldn't be inaccurate, I stated a standard range of S&C. Meaning standard prototype S&C. | ||
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 19:29 from: Martin Wynne
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Michael Woolford wrote:I think it would be a great idea if someone could create the range of C&L templates in Templot to share with everyone or maybe Martin could work in a feature one day that we could just select a template to drop on to the trackpad for a range of standard S&C.Hi Michael, The problem there is that they are all straight. The whole point of Templot is that you can insert pointwork into gently flowing curves, as on the prototype. To have a library of pre-designed formations would require a vast range of different radii. And there is no point in doing it for the plain turnouts and diamonds because you can create those in Templot with just a few clicks, almost as easily as selecting a ready-made one. However, you can in fact do what you want now. Just scan the C&L templates and insert them as picture shapes on the trackpad. you can even curve them to any radius using the image wrapping function. Here I have created a curved crossover using C&L templates that way. I have overlaid the equivalent template in Templot, but you don't have to do that: s4soc_b8_curved_crossover_1.png  I increased the track spacing to 7ft-way to simplify the chairing at the centre just for this example. It's necessary to use the transparent option where the images overlap. Here is part of the printed template output -- a fully chaired curved B8 crossover in P4: s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover_print_1.png  • Don't forget to tick the option to include picture shapes in the print output (it is off by default). There are functions on the background shapes dialog to let you twist the picture shapes into alignment with the adjacent tracks, via the notch. If you load these C&L templates into Templot as picture shapes, you can then use the printer calibration function in Templot to ensure a precision print. To obtain a hi-res bitmap image (PNG) for that purpose, use the excellent free PDF-XChange viewer program for the PDF ( http://www.tracker-software.com/product ... nge-viewer ), which has an Export To Image function -- you can set to 600dpi for a hi-res image. Having the C&L templates in Templot also means that you can include them in Templot track plans and combine them with Templot curved templates. Here I have done that with the B-8 template and overlaid the equivalent Templot template. To create that in Templot, change to a generic-type V-crossing and convert RAM to CLM crossing angles. I changed the image to a low-contrast negative image because I find it easier to work over, but that is entirely optional: s4soc_b8_1.png  In these close-ups, everything in grey is from the C&L template, everything in colour is from Templot. You can see that the rails match very well. There is a slight mis-match in a few of the timber positions. They can be easily shoved into alignment if a perfect match is important for you. s4soc_b8_2.png  s4soc_b8_3.png  s4soc_b8_4.png  Here is the first page of the familiar Templot print-outs with the grid and red trim lines, which can be accurately set user the printer calibration function. Remember to select the option to include picture shapes in the output (it is off by default). I set the timber infill to "none" so that the chairing detail is visible: s4soc_b8_print.png  If anyone would like to try the above, here are the Templot files: http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_template.box http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_template.bgs http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_template.sk81 (The bgs and sk81 files must be saved in the same location, normally your \SHAPE-FILES\ folder. The .box file normally goes in your \BOX-FILES\ folder.) More about how to use the image wrapping function here: http://templot.com/companion/index.html ... _curve.htm (The templates are already straight, so the straightening part of the process can be skipped.) Here I have created a B-8 crossover on an outer radius of 1750mm, and wrapped the C&L templates to match to provide full underlying chair detail: Full view on the Templot trackpad: s4soc_b8_curved_crossover_1.png Close-up with and without the C&L templates underlying: s4soc_b8_curved_crossover_4.png  s4soc_b8_curved_crossover_3.png  I increased the track spacing to 7ft way to simplify the chairing at the centre for this example. It's necessary to use the transparent option where the images overlap. Here is the printed template output -- a fully chaired curved B8 crossover:  s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover_print.png  s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover_print_1.png If anyone would like to try the above, here are the Templot files: http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover.box http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover.bgs http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover.sk81 http://85a.co.uk/s4_soc/s4_soc_b8_curved_crossover.sk82 (The bgs, sk81 and sk82 files must be saved in the same location, normally your \SHAPE-FILES\ folder. The .box file normally goes in your \BOX-FILES\ folder.) regards, Martin. • Posting the above screenshots here has infringed the C&L / Scalefour Society copyright on the P4 B-8 template. If you want to experiment with these functions please be sure to buy your own copy of the template(s) from C&L. Please do not post your own screenshots showing scanned C&L templates. |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 19:40 from: Michael Woolford
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A very useful and informative post Martin. Thanks very much. I will have to have a play sometime. Michael |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 23:31 from: Alan Turner
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Michael Woolford wrote: They wouldn't be inaccurate, I stated a standard range of S&C. Meaning standard prototype S&C.But they wouldn't be standard prototype S&C because, if based on C&L/Excactoscale templates, they are the LNER's interpretation of REA specifications. What about all the S&C that preceded the REA designs? Regards Alan |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 23:32 by Alan Turner |
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posted: 1 Jan 2014 23:49 from: Michael Woolford
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Well, then they would be standard designs for that era, however even if something like this was done, to please most people then GWR and more modern standardised designs would have to be included. Not that it matters as it's not going to be developed any further. Michael |
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| Last edited on 1 Jan 2014 23:52 by Michael Woolford |
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posted: 2 Jan 2014 00:05 from: Martin Wynne
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Michael Woolford wrote:Not that it matters as it's not going to be developed any further.Hi Michael, I wouldn't say that. Anyone is welcome to attach a .box file of templates here to share with other users. That's what the "Share and show" section of Templot Club is for: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=12 Templates from such a .box file can be selected and used to create track plans. For complex formations such as the outside slip, they can be tagged and selected as a group, as Paul explained. Groups of templates can be aligned with other tracks using the notch-linking functions. Templot already contains all the functionality you are asking for, it just requires someone to use it to create the relevant templates, and share them. It won't be me because I'm fully occupied in developing and supporting the program itself. In practice I rather suspect it would be a wasted effort because few users will want exactly the same templates. It's easier to create your own to fit your track plan. For example Paul prefers the outside slip version with 1:7.5 V-crossings for an easier radius in the slip road. For all we know he would also have done the whole thing on 40 chains radius for his own use. In which case a straight one from someone else wouldn't be much use to him. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 2 Jan 2014 09:19 from: Martin Wynne
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Michael Woolford wrote:I think it would be a great idea if someone could create the range of C&L templates in Templot to share with everyone or maybe Martin could work in a feature one day that we could just select a template to drop on to the trackpad for a range of standard S&C.Hi Michael, Despite my earlier comments, I have just remembered that I created some templates matching C&L at: message 2130 These are for 00, not EM, and the link above includes some notes about modifying them for 00-SF. Re-reading your message I'm wondering if you have tried clicking the NEW button at the top of the trackpad? This lets you quickly set the control template to match a range of REA turnouts. Admittedly they don't exactly match the C&L templates, but I'm wondering why you would need that? You can build the C&L kits on them just as easily as on the C&L templates. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 2 Jan 2014 10:34 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin, Michael,For all we know he would also have done the whole thing on 40 chains radius for his own use.Something like this? All three roads through the slip are curved, which neatly demonstrates why "standard" templates aren't actually that helpful in the real world. It wouldn't be possible to take the slip I uploaded earlier and simply curve it - it has to be created in situ. 105_020527_450000000.png  Just to prove it's not all just Templot, the built formation can be seen on the Shotley page of my website. A quick taster below. This is built in P4, which is why I'm looking for easier curves 105_020532_490000000.jpg  |
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| Last edited on 2 Jan 2014 10:36 by Paul Boyd |
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posted: 2 Jan 2014 14:00 from: Dave Summers
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Paul That last photo is a great advertisement for both build-your-own and for Templot to create the templates on which to build it. Excellent work. Dave |
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posted: 23 Mar 2014 12:25 from: Michael Woolford
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After a busy couple of months, I plan on continuing with the Templot plan soon. I would like to try and build the outside single slip into the plan rather than trying to use what was kindly provided. I have tried pulling the plan apart to see how it all fits together so that I can attempt it myself. It is proving quite difficult. Has anyone created a tutorial for outside slips? If so, I would be grateful if someone could point me to its location. Michael |
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