Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 2385Building a Aussie Layout
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: 22 Jan 2014 06:45

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi,

My name is Linton and I am very new to Templot. I am currently building an Australian based layout, centred around Picton, NSW, circa 1955, link -
http://stonequarrycreek.blogspot.com.au/

I have found Templot to be very good so far. It was a little hard to get my head around a few things at first but things are now slowly sinking in. I have drawn my track plan, including a single slip (I was very happy that it worked) but I am having a few troubles in trying to replicate NSW Government Railway point characteristics, particularly sleeper layout.

My dramas so far:

1. My single slip L/H point blades do not flow into the stock rail properly. My R/H points blades are fine. Realistically it wont affect building the slip but I would like to know where I went wrong;

2. My track plan includes a passenger siding bay within one of the platforms. I specified a track spacing between adjacent track of 85mm however Templot has drawn it at 71mm and I can not adjust further;

3. I am after a plain track and point sleeper spacing of 600-628mm between centres (prototype). When I go to 'real' and then adjust point timbering it seems to only adjust the middle set of sleepers. I do not know how to adjust the plain track sleeper spacing. It seems there are only pre-set values i.e. 60ft rail/25ft sleeper spacing options. I have tried the customised spacing option however it seemed I would have to input the spacing of every sleeper on the track plan. NSWGR sleepers are 8ft long, 9 inches wide and spaced at around 2ft between centres. I am not overly concerned about the straight track sleeper spacing but would like the point timbers set correctly for building;

4. The last thing that I am having trouble with is printing to PDF. I can print onto small sheets no problem but would like it printed in one continues run on a large plotting type printer. When I enlarge the paper size within the printing to PDF screen, the final print no longer includes my track plan.

I am not sure how to attach my track plan with this post. I am sure it would make more sense looking at the actual plan.

Sorry about the huge post. Look forward to some advice.

Thanks in advance,

Linton
Last edited on 22 Jan 2014 10:45 by Linton78
posted: 22 Jan 2014 09:35

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Linton78 wrote:
I am not sure how to attach my track plan with this post. I am sure it would make more sense looking at the actual plan.
Hi Linton,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

To attach your track plan, click Reply blank, and type at least one word in the box. Then look below the box and click the button labelled Browse... or Choose...

Then navigate to the C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\BOX-FILES\ folder and click on your latest file.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 22 Jan 2014 09:50

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Thanks. Please find attached my Templot Box file. Its not very pretty but will do the job once a few of the issues I have been having are solved.

I would like to send through a drawing of a NSWGR single slip, so as to show you its layout. As this drawing is not my work I can not post it publically. Would you mind if I sent it to you privately?

Thanks,

Linton
Attachment: attach_1721_2385_Picton_Single_Slip.box     303

posted: 22 Jan 2014 10:09

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Linton78 wrote:
I would like to send through a drawing of a NSWGR single slip, so as to show you its layout. As this drawing is not my work I can not post it publically. Would you mind if I sent it to you privately?
Hi Linton,

Sure. :)  Send it to me by email to: martin@templot.com

However, I can't discuss it with you privately -- all user support for Templot is conducted here on the Templot Club forum. The price of Templot being free is that there is no one-to-one support, sorry.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 22 Jan 2014 10:42

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Of course, that's fine. I benefit from everybody else's problems and discussion. Hopefully the information that comes out of this will also help others. I was only worried about copyright issues regarding the single slip diagram. I will scan it at work tomorrow as its A3 in size.

Thanks,

Linton

posted: 26 Jan 2014 09:40

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi,

I have been cracking on with this still, basically starting again. This time I created the plain track sections with 8ft x 9 inch sleepers, spaced at 24 inch centres. That almost worked but there are still funny gaps between each 45 foot rail section.

Next I built a No. 8 point, based on GWR 16ft switches which I think suit New South Wales (Aussie) timber points.

I shoved all the timbers along so they have the correct spacing, lucky for me the number of sleepers within the point matches some prototype drawings I have.

I have attached the .box file containing the plain track and modified point.

All was going well until I tried to recreate my track plan using my new point and track. When I try to build a cross over off my point, the point that appears is a un-modified point. I don't want to have to modify every point as it took ages!

What am I doing wrong? Can I simply just go to "make simple cross over" and all the points that appear replicate my modified sleeper one?

Is this going to get even more complicated for the single slip and smaller ratio points such as No.7s and 6s.

Would love some help. I will be bald by the end of this drawing ha ha.

Regards,

Linton
Attachment: attach_1725_2385_NSWGR_No.8_Point_-_Correct_Spaced_Sleeper.box     287

posted: 26 Jan 2014 10:30

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I am having my own conversation here but the point I had drawn in the last post was drawn at P87 and not HO-SF. Some more work to do ha.

Linton
Last edited on 26 Jan 2014 13:26 by Linton78
posted: 26 Jan 2014 12:56

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
The straight track: 22 sleepers at 24" settings comes to 44', so on 45' track you have an extra 1' of rail, 6" each end.

posted: 26 Jan 2014 14:11

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Linton and Nigel,

NSWGR standards for sleeper spacing on 45', 94lb and 107lb rail main lines during
Linton's chosen period is 21 at 2' 3/4" for a suspended joint with 20" between
the end sleeper's centres and 22 at 2' 1/2" with a supported joint.
The fishplates would probably be of the "bar" type.

The 45' sections are then welded together for a smooth ride and less wear on the
rail joins and tyres. Depending on the radius of curve these welded sections
can be between 90' to 360' long. Straight sections of track can be longer.

Linton you have Greg Edward's Track Manual? It is correct for your time period.
And he thanks you for not posting his template drawing of a NSWGR lead on the forum.

Also to consider regarding leads, (NSWGR's name for turnouts, though 'switches' is also used),
there are three types that may occur.
"Standard".
"Heavy" for facing Main Line leads to sidings with a thicker switch rail on the diverting side
with a joggle.
"Housed" for high speed facing main line leads with thicker switch rails on both sides with
joggles and a housing covering the switch when it isn't in contact with the stock rail.

I don't have a plan for Picton, and I know the main freight line deviation probably changed
things, but if you're fussy it may be worthwhile checking if either of the last two apply.
May not be worth the trouble in HO.

Regards, Matt M.

posted: 26 Jan 2014 14:26

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Nigel Brown wrote:
The straight track: 22 sleepers at 24" settings comes to 44', so on 45' track you have an extra 1' of rail, 6" each end.
Hi Nigel,

22 sleepers means 21 spaces, so the distance between the centres of the end sleepers would be 21 x 24" = 42ft.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 26 Jan 2014 15:55

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote:
Nigel Brown wrote:
The straight track: 22 sleepers at 24" settings comes to 44', so on 45' track you have an extra 1' of rail, 6" each end.
Hi Nigel,

22 sleepers means 21 spaces, so the distance between the centres of the end sleepers would be 21 x 24" = 42ft.

regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin,

Yep, I know, but I didn't mention sleeper centres. 22 sleepers evenly spaced means to me 21 spaces between sleepers plus two half-spaces, one at each end, the equivalent of 22 spaces in all. Which in this example would be fine for a 44' track panel. But for a 45 ' panel you get an extra 6" at each end, giving an extra 2x6" = 1' in the inter-panel spacing.

Cheers
Nigel

posted: 27 Jan 2014 11:55

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Matt M. wrote:
Hi Linton and Nigel,

NSWGR standards for sleeper spacing on 45', 94lb and 107lb rail main lines during
Linton's chosen period is 21 at 2' 3/4" for a suspended joint with 20" between
the end sleeper's centres and 22 at 2' 1/2" with a supported joint.
The fishplates would probably be of the "bar" type.

The 45' sections are then welded together for a smooth ride and less wear on the
rail joins and tyres. Depending on the radius of curve these welded sections
can be between 90' to 360' long. Straight sections of track can be longer.

Linton you have Greg Edward's Track Manual? It is correct for your time period.
And he thanks you for not posting his template drawing of a NSWGR lead on the forum.

Also to consider regarding leads, (NSWGR's name for turnouts, though 'switches' is also used),
there are three types that may occur.
"Standard".
"Heavy" for facing Main Line leads to sidings with a thicker switch rail on the diverting side
with a joggle.
"Housed" for high speed facing main line leads with thicker switch rails on both sides with
joggles and a housing covering the switch when it isn't in contact with the stock rail.

I don't have a plan for Picton, and I know the main freight line deviation probably changed
things, but if you're fussy it may be worthwhile checking if either of the last two apply.
May not be worth the trouble in HO.

Regards, Matt M.


Hi Matt,

Yes I do have Greg's manual, it is so good and a must. I am happy with the prototype sleeper spacing, it's just that I have been having a little trouble getting it to work with Templot. For the straight track sections it does not matter so much however I wanted fairly accurate point templates.

I don't think I will go down the path of differing lead types in HO, although the housed lead sounds interesting. They would be quite obvious I guess? While driving trains I remember seeing more modern point work with steel type guards over leads. Is this the type of thing you are talking about?

I have many different Picton track plans and in some ways they all contradict each other. I do not have one that goes into enough detail so as to see the different types of point leads used though. Photos may provide something now that I am looking for that type of thing.

Yes I wasn't going to post Greg's plan on a forum. I respect Greg's work too much to do something silly like that. Greg is a very nice bloke and we need to support his work so more is produced!

Thanks for you very informative post. More to think about.

Linton
Last edited on 27 Jan 2014 11:57 by Linton78
posted: 27 Jan 2014 12:13

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Nigel Brown wrote:
The straight track: 22 sleepers at 24" settings comes to 44', so on 45' track you have an extra 1' of rail, 6" each end.


Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the help.

I wasn't 100% accurate with stating 24 inches as it is slightly over for 22 sleepers per length.

Matt's reply is a lot more accurate than what I provided. As I have said the straight track section templates are not as important as the points. I have learnt a lot about the geometry of point work using Templot. I have found it interesting that just by changing the flangeway width you change the overall length of the point. It seems to me that when using model train tolerances the prototype point geometry is always going to be compromised. That's how it seems to me anyway.

I have finally re-drawn my track plan using GWR 16ft switch points, using a 16.5mm track gauge and 1mm flangeway tolerances. The sleeper spacing looks good and all seems not to bad. Still some tweaking to do but it's almost useable.

Thanks for your help,

Linton

posted: 27 Jan 2014 12:21

from:

Linton78
 
Nowra - Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I ended up noticing in the shove timbers pain two push buttons that enabled the modified timber work to be retained on a new mint and retained during tool bar operations. This solved all my worries about having to re-shove all the timbers on all subsequent points.

Templot is so flexible. It seems almost anything can be created.

Linton

posted: 27 Jan 2014 13:24

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Linton,

Yes the guards on "Housed Switches" are, or at lest were,
made from manganese steel.

They act as a check rail when the wheel sets pass the joggle.

A check rail is usually provided to lead into the housing, but
sometimes the housing is extended and flared in a manner
similar to the check rail.

The "Heavy" type only good for facing work, and doesn't work well
in a trailing situation. Required special approval before use.

These formations came into use in the late 1920's, so, not so modern.
Designed to cope with increasing weight and speed.

Usually with the track plans, it is a "block plan" that will list the
point types, if you are lucky. Given Picton's date of 1860's it
wouldn't be of much use even if you could find one.
Unless you wish to build it all in double headed rail…

I support Greg as much as I can. Share research information and
hunt down items for him. I'm leaning on him to update the track manual.
The pre 1900 stuff (my area of interest) is a little light.

Happy to help Linton. It's always good to see someone trying to create
accurate NSWGR PW work. It isn't common.

Regards, Matt M.

posted: 31 Jan 2014 13:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Linton78 wrote:
1. My single slip L/H point blades do not flow into the stock rail properly. My R/H points blades are fine. Realistically it wont affect building the slip but I would like to know where I went wrong
Hi Linton,

For a neat result in the output, the switch templates need to overwrite the half-diamond templates. To make that happen, re-order the templates so that the half-diamond templates are above the switch templates in the storage box (i.e. have lower list numbers on the left):

2_310713_080000000.png2_310713_080000000.png

Use the brown up/down arrows to move the templates with a D prefix above the templates with a S prefix.

(I added a "single slip" prefix tag to your slip templates).

Ideally, you could split each half-diamond template into 3 partial templates, removing the rails under the switch, but it's a lot of extra work for very little gain.

2. My track plan includes a passenger siding bay within one of the platforms. I specified a track spacing between adjacent track of 85mm however Templot has drawn it at 71mm and I can not adjust further
You should be able to set any spacing. Maybe you mixed up the TS (turnout side) and MS (main-side) settings? If not, please could you explain in more detail what you did and what happened?

3. I am after a plain track and point sleeper spacing of 600-628mm between centres (prototype). When I go to 'real' and then adjust point timbering it seems to only adjust the middle set of sleepers.
The timber spacings within the switch section are set as part of the switch. You need to create a custom switch -- at real > switch settings... menu item click the set custom switch... button.

The timber spacings within the V-crossing are set as part of the V-crossing, and are determined by the relevant rail lengths. Make all the settings at real > V-crossing options > customize v-crossing > menu items. Set the blunt nose position first, because the remaining settings derive from that.

I do not know how to adjust the plain track sleeper spacing. It seems there are only pre-set values i.e. 60ft rail/25ft sleeper spacing options. I have tried the customised spacing option however it seemed I would have to input the spacing of every sleeper on the track plan.
You can create a custom plain track setting at real > plain track options > rail lengths and sleeper spacings... menu item. Stuart Hince has written a tutorial on setting up custom rail lengths and sleeper spacings in Templot. It's specifically for the GWR, so just change the numbers accordingly for NSW:

http://templot.com/martweb/pdf_files/gwr_track_panels.pdf

You don't need to enter it more than once. A custom setting can be re-used for any template (see also the obtain functions for the control template) or applied to any or all existing templates. On the storage box, see the options > modify on rebuild > menu options, and then rebuild the required templates.

Make sure you change the option back after doing the rebuild. :)

In Templot, the way to save any setting for re-use is to ensure that you have stored a template containing it. That can be an unused template or a library template if you prefer, perhaps in its own .box file.

4. The last thing that I am having trouble with is printing to PDF. I can print onto small sheets no problem but would like it printed in one continues run on a large plotting type printer. When I enlarge the paper size within the printing to PDF screen, the final print no longer includes my track plan.
If you are using Adobe Reader to display the PDF file, there is a page size limit, and you probably need to create multiple smaller pages. It is much better to use one of the other free PDF reader programs such as Nitro Reader or PDF-XChange Viewer, which do not have this restriction.

If that doesn't explain the problem, please could you explain in more detail what you are doing and what happens?

regards,

Martin.



Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Building a Aussie Layout
about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems