Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 21 Sep 2014 22:30 from: RogerW
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Currently I am trying (and generally succeeding) in getting someone else's rather complex layout, a 4 track terminal station and approaches, actually running. It was designed in Templot but whoever built it has not stuck to the plans, did not appear to believe in using track gauges, or had any idea about how to use check rails correctly. Note, I had never worked on C&L glued chaired track before, but have worked with soldered PCB sleeper track. After going round the bend for a few weeks and not getting anywhere on two particular points, I obtained a set of C&L roller gauges from their stand at GOG Telford. 1 / I found that every point was under-gauge - no wonder things had been jamming or jumping off. 2 / There were some absolutely terrible dog-legs at board joints that needed attention and a lot of "packing and jacking" has had to be retrospectively carried out to level out some horrible dips. 3 / Over the whole complex, many check rails were totally inadequate in length, with some not fitted or badly positioned, and/or with far too wide a clearance gap between themselves and the rail they were supposed to protect. Fortunately studying the diagrams and notes in Templot showing straight switches, curved and semi-curved enabled me to take the following remedial actions over this last week. On the two worst curved points (inner radius less than 5ft) I traced out "natural curves" rather than the previously existing "forced curves", just to see how nicely a curve could go without having to do a complete messy rebuild. I then removed all of the inside chairs between the start of the check rails to halfway down the slide chairs, (fiddly doing this in situ), and also some of the chairs on the frogs and those holding the moving blades that corresponded to the curved inner rails. I released the inner rails at the point blade ends, strung in all the new fixed chairs, wedged the inner rails, checked gauge, and glued every third chair down (this was an experiment for me after all), and once happy, used the new gauges to reset the moving blades and frogs, then glued down the rest of the chairs. Effectively I had converted what were tight straight switches into semi-curved versions of a more generous radius which also included some curvature to the frogs, and I both lengthened the check rails and reduced their clearance gaps. This luchtime - the previously worst loco for derailing even just going at walking pace, (an 0-6-0 non-symmetrically wheelbased diesel) happily crossed the points at all test speeds, and I tried it facing in both directions, and pushing a long wheelbase 4 wheel wagon that also had not liked this particular pair of points. Unfortunately the only "bubbly" I had to hand to celebrate with was fizzy spring water. RogerW |
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posted: 22 Sep 2014 13:02 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Roger, Many thanks for your kind words.  I obtained a set of C&L roller gauges from their stand at GOG Telford. 1 / I found that every point was under-gaugeYou may have entered a minefied.  Many track builders in 7mm scale are now using the 0-MF standard -- 31.5mm gauge with 1.5mm flangeways. This has generally been found to provide much improved running with all but very old Guage 0 wheels, and is rapidly becoming the accepted norm. Track gauge tools for 0-MF are available from Debs of this parish and from Roxey Models, and possibly elsewhere. However, 0-MF gauge tools are not available from C&L. C&L offer two gauge options: 1. 0F which is 32mm gauge with 1.75mm flangeways. This is the traditional Gauge 0 Guild Fine standard. Many modern wheels are too narrow to work properly on this, hence the preference for 0-MF 31.5mm instead. 2. 0-XF which is 31mm gauge with 1.25mm flangeways. This is deprecated and does not work properly with any wheels other than Slaters on straight or very gently curved track. Not recommended. If the track you were modifying was built to 0-MF 31.5mm it would indeed appear to be under-gauge when tested with a 32mm roller gauge. All this has been discussed at length on here and on RMweb -- you may want to refer to that before continuing to modify the track gauge. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 22 Sep 2014 19:30 from: RogerW
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Hi Martin (et al) Yes - I have been following the discussions on this, however, I am using a more empirical approach. Some of his stock was sticking and my one loco with newish wheels always derailed, and so I have only drastically modified the two tightly curved points (my guess is a bit less than 5ft radius on the inner curve), and the there was about 1.5mm extra needed to give clearance on the gauge. The usually accepted wisdom is that a tiny bit of gauge widening on such tight curves is acceptable if it allows better running. His lwb 4 wheel wagon and my loco can now go through at walking pace. There is no trouble with his Tower Models 03 shunter or Heljan loco, with the Heljan previously riding up on the point blades on one point and jerking badly on the other before modifications. RogerW |
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posted: 24 Sep 2014 08:01 from: Hayfield
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I find it hard to believe what you have said about the trackwork, especially with the check rails. The Templot template is very clear and easy to understand, unless the person is trying to copy a Peco turnout. Fitting the check rail is a different matter. I have in the past had problems with P4 track being under gauged, simply as the slots in the gauges being too deep and holding the rail vertical rather than at a cant, once the gauges are removed the chairs relax back into the cant thus gauge narrowing. From the little I know as you said a bit of gauge widening on sharper radius curves does help ease movement through the turnout Track building is really the Cinderella of the railway modelling field. It is a great pity that no company has taken the bull by the horns and made a range of gauges available from one place for the popular gauges in both 4 & 7 mm scales. A simple thing like a flangeway gauge for 00 gauge etc. There are many modellers who are lone wolves and are not members of societies and have great difficulty in obtaining some items. |
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posted: 24 Sep 2014 08:50 from: RogerW
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The the main problem was that the original builder did not stick to the Templot printout or use any track gauges. I understand from the layout owner (someone different) that the builder just ran a wagon up and down and "gauged" from that. I can see that in several places where ballast has lifted while I was tying to level up what was there (a right mess) that check-rails have not been fitted in the right place, they were inadequate in length particularly on the 3way points as they only covered one of the two frogs and I can see that the C&L's instructions of how to fit check-rails have not been followed, and a couple of other check-rails were not fitted at all. If it was not for the fact that the owner is a good friend I would have told - sorry - not my speciality. |
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