Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 271Llanfyllin - Trying to make a plan
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posted: 1 Dec 2007 03:35

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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    Hi

I have a scanned map of the station and track plan.

I have checked the scan and as far as I believe it is 300dpi, the scanner is set for 300 default but if I look at th eproperties of the jpeg it says 150.

I put the picture into Templot at 300 and it looks too large the loco release is about 300mm, when in photos it is not much larger than the 58xx using it.

If it is the right scale on the screen would the gauge of EM templates match the gauge of the rails on the map? Not withstanding the map may not be that accurate.

I have found it very very difficult to fit the track onto the plan using templot. n


On the map (1 in 2500) the track plan is 170mm, on Templot it measures 3900mm. ( which is about the length of layout I was planning)

Could someone confirm I am working to the right size plan???


Thanks

Terry

posted: 1 Dec 2007 04:33

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Terry Beddoes wrote: 
I have a scanned map of the station and track plan.

I have checked the scan and as far as I believe it is 300dpi, the scanner is set for 300 default but if I look at the properties of the jpeg it says 150.

I put the picture into Templot at 300 and it looks too large the loco release is about 300mm, when in photos it is not much larger than the 58xx using it.

If it is the right scale on the screen would the gauge of EM templates match the gauge of the rails on the map? Not withstanding the map may not be that accurate.

I have found it very very difficult to fit the track onto the plan using Templot. n

On the map (1 in 2500) the track plan is 170mm, on Templot it measures 3900mm. (which is about the length of layout I was planning)
Hi Terry,

Why not post a message and attach a screen shot from Templot, so that we can see what you are doing?

If the track plan is 170mm long on a 1:2500 map, that means the full size was 170 x 2500 = 425000mm.

To find the size in 4mm scale, divide that by 76.2, which gives 5577mm. So that is the size the same area should occupy in the model and on the screen. If you need to fit it in 3900mm you will need to compress it lengthwise to fit.

If the map doesn't appear to correspond with photographs, check that the dates match. Often map revision dates are decades earlier than the publication date.

There is a video showing how to set up a scanned map as a background guide at:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/map_picture_shape.exe
(39MB -- broadband only)

When the size is right the rails of a P4 template should match the map. An EM template will be slightly under. However, you can't rely on a 25" map being drawn to that level accuracy. :(

regards,

Martin.

posted: 1 Dec 2007 14:07

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

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Terry

Don't worry too much about the scan resolution or indeed the scale; I don't bother with that now.

What I suggest you do is this:

On the paper plan identify two features that you know the distance between. I am assuming here that you are not using a modern 1:1250 map with 100m grids on. If you are then use the grids for reference. Convert the marked distance to model scale. i.e. 762m is 10m in 4mm scale.

When you have done that, scan the plan and import it in to TEMPLOT.

Set the TEMPLOT grid to an appropriate setting so that when your scan is at the correct scale your marked points will coincide with the grid or as near as you can estimate with some accuracy.

Using the SHIFT and SCALE buttons on the BACKGROUND window move the first point you marked over the origin then use the SCALE button to scale the scan such that the second marked point is over the appropriate grid. Your scan is now correctly scaled. Use the SHIFT button to move the scan to an appropriate place and you can then save it as a bgs file.

Start producing your track plan!

Alan

posted: 4 Dec 2007 14:27

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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Hi

This is the photo that started my fascination with Llanfyllin, Could you tell me what sort of turnout connects the Goods Loop to the Goods Shed?

I will post a scan of the map in another post


Terry

Edit:  Ishould credit GWR Journal 61 with the photo which if I have transgressed copyright rules please delete Martin, Thanks
Attachment: attach_169_271_Llanfyllin_1.jpg 1779

posted: 4 Dec 2007 14:31

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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Hi again,

This is a scan of the map of Llanfyllin

Terry
Attachment: attach_170_271_Llanfyllin.jpg 1878

posted: 4 Dec 2007 14:45

from:

rodney_hills
 
United Kingdom

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Terry,

I can't comment on the point details in the photo, but that Down (Home?) signal intrigues me.

The main arm seems to be 'off' but the move in progress looks like a loco running round with a view to coupling up to the two coaches that are sitting in the platform road.

Do you know the arm configuration of that signal? I would have expected a shunt arm or disc (or even simply a flag from the visible signal box) to control shunting movements, not use of the main arm.

Regards,

Rodney Hills

posted: 4 Dec 2007 18:17

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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rodney_hills wrote:
Terry,

I can't comment on the point details in the photo, but that Down (Home?) signal intrigues me.

The main arm seems to be 'off' but the move in progress looks like a loco running round with a view to coupling up to the two coaches that are sitting in the platform road.

Do you know the arm configuration of that signal? I would have expected a shunt arm or disc (or even simply a flag from the visible signal box) to control shunting movements, not use of the main arm.

Regards,

Rodney Hills
HI

I will check this evening I am sure this is reported in  GWRJ 61, and I believe the top arm related to the Main (Platform) Line and the bottom arm related to the loop.

Not so obvious from the photo is that there are three separate run around loops at Llanfyllin (sorry WERE).

I will find a photo from the other direction, it became a bracket signal later in life in a Photo from 1962.

The point looks almost like a "Catch Point", but, was hoping someone could shed a bit more light on it.

Thanks

Terry

posted: 4 Dec 2007 21:05

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Terry,

Thanks for posting the picture and map.

The photo looks to be suitable for gimping, and by aligning it over the map we should be able to get a good match to the turnouts in the foreground.

The platform release turnout is almost certainly a flexible switch, making it a GWR or BR(W) renewal since the mid 1930s. The goods shed turnout is a loose-heel switch, and quite likely still ex-Cambrian.

I will try to find time to do a bit of gimping later. A quick trial with the map in Templot shows it to be almost certainly scanned at 150dpi (and 1:2500 scale for 25" maps).

Are any of the buildings still standing? If so you should be able to get accurate sizes from the OS Planning Portal maps at:

Planning Portal maps

Just keep on zooming in until you get to the digital vector mapping. :)

I just had a quick look and followed the dreaded "dismantled railway" into the town, and I found "Rose Villa" and the "Station House" from your  25" map still standing, but the rest seems to have gone. :(

Click this within the next few minutes to see what I'm seeing:

http://live.planningportal.gov.uk/maps/s1/output/online_apps_colour_GB02QAS030PLA272376288027885.jpg

(Time limited output from the Planning Portal server.)

The point looks almost like a "Catch Point", but, was hoping someone could shed a bit more light on it.
Catch points are used where goods lines connect to passenger lines. The goods loop isn't a passenger line, so there's no need for catch points there.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Dec 2007 22:30

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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Hi Martin Thanks for that.

I was really interested in the goods loop turnout, (I realise it is not a catch point) but, that was the nearest thing I had seem to match it.

I've just got in from work and now have to go back out, won't be back till 20:00 ish Christmas shopping:(

Does Templot produce a "loose heel" turnout, how would I build one ? The rest of the track is going to be C & L P4.

Interseted in the Gimping and also OS portal planning.

I had also experimented and had realised the dpi was 150 with a scale of 1 to 2500

I am hoping to purchase some point kits this weekend for the loco release and the goods loop, to complete the first boards once I find out what size crossing I need.

Thanks very much for your help.


Terry


posted: 4 Dec 2007 23:11

from:

Cynric Williams
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Terry,
Are any of the buildings still standing? If so you should be able to get accurate sizes from the OS Planning Portal maps at:

I don't think so http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=44.023938~-99.71&style=h&lvl=4&tilt=-89.875918865193&dir=0&alt=7689462.6842358#JndoZXJlMT1MbGFuZnlsbGluJmJiPTU4LjU4NTQzNTY5MTE5OTIlN2UtNDQuMTIxMDkzNzUlN2UyNC43NjY3ODQ1MjI4NzQ0JTdlLTE1NS4yMTQ4NDM3NQ== shows the site.
I have also been looking at the branch so I will be interest to see what you come up with :)

posted: 5 Dec 2007 02:18

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Hi Terry

Does Templot produce a "loose heel" turnout, how would I build one ? The rest of the track is going to be C & L P4



The GWR old - type heel (curved switches)available in templot switches, are loose heel they are secured to the closure rail by a 2 bolt fishplate and the heel end of the switch sits in a double chair the stock rail is keyed but the switch rail is not, hence loose. See photo 2 in Share and show, GW special chairs, Switch chairs. Photo 1 is the last chair on the closure rail, all other chairs are slide chairs see photo 3. The fish plate can be modelled using a piece of phoshur bronze stip (use on one side of the rail only)it is flexible and durable enough to with stand the ravages of operation.

 

I hope this is of help.

 

Cheers Phil

Last edited on posted: 5 Dec 2007 02:30 by Phil O
5 Dec 2007 02:30

from:

Terry Beddoes
 
 

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Terry Beddoes wrote:
rodney_hills wrote:
Terry,

I can't comment on the point details in the photo, but that Down (Home?) signal intrigues me.

The main arm seems to be 'off' but the move in progress looks like a loco running round with a view to coupling up to the two coaches that are sitting in the platform road.

Do you know the arm configuration of that signal? I would have expected a shunt arm or disc (or even simply a flag from the visible signal box) to control shunting movements, not use of the main arm.

Regards,

Rodney Hills
HI

I will check this evening I am sure this is reported in  GWRJ 61, and I believe the top arm related to the Main (Platform) Line and the bottom arm related to the loop.

Not so obvious from the photo is that there are three separate run around loops at Llanfyllin (sorry WERE).

I will find a photo from the other direction, it became a bracket signal later in life in a Photo from 1962.

The point looks almost like a "Catch Point", but, was hoping someone could shed a bit more light on it.

Thanks

Terry
Hi here is the photo of the signal where you can see both arms a little clearer.

Thanks for all the help (I certainly need it)

Cynric, I have some photos aprt from the GWRJ 61 though they are from the 60's and the track plan had altered considerably, Engine shed removed no goods loop, Do you have any additional info?


Terry
Attachment: attach_171_271_llanfyllin_6.jpg 1309

posted: 5 Dec 2007 02:51

from:

Cynric Williams
 
 

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Terry
Have you seen WRRC archive May 2006? photos by Richard Stagg they are 60's also, but these maybe the ones you refer to. (PM me if you want to see a copy) I have been trying to find some building dimensions or plans without much success, otherwise it's counting bricks!



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