Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 28 Dec 2016 11:23 from: drrsenior
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In around 1 years time I will have a dedicated 8x4 metre railway room.I live in Australia (Queensland) having left the UK 25 years ago. I have modelled UK steam on and off since childhood: disrupted by major life events! As I am heading into retirement, I am looking to creating a fairly major layout based in the North of England in the late 1950s, modelled in OO-SF. The aim is to have a major station down one side of the room, long enough for full length train formations and a multitrack fiddle yard on the other long wall of the room creating a large 'roundy roundy'. Eventually the short wall opposite to the door will hopefully become a fair sized MPD with the main running tracks under, accessed by a rising gradient behind the station. My plan is to learn to hand build the turnouts on the station board and use peco for the fiddle yard. I am starting track planning now so I can spend the next few months learning to build trackwork and then when the trackplan is completed hopefully produce some turnouts to put in store for the actual build. For the plain track; I am currently leaning towards DCC Concepts 'Legacy' flexi-track. I have spent much of Christmas on the steep learning curve for Templot and have created my first track plan ( attached). I know that it is far from perfect having used some crude techniques to fit it together which hopefully can be improved on as my understanding of this fairly complex program increases. It is based on Huddersfield but with sufficient modifications that it could not reasonably keep the name ( and I certainly do not have the skills to scratch build the magnificent main station building), hence the working name of 'Ravensfield'...Ravensthorpe is a small station between Huddersfield and Leeds. Allowing for misalignments and excess sleepers which I have struggled to remove in places: Does the plan work? From the top: 1st track is the spur on a rising gradient to eventually go to an MPD.(Obviously not at all prototypical) 2nd track is the main Eastbound track for expresses with 2 bays in the adjacent island platform ( not shown) which in the original served Leeds and Wakefield. The through track below this is bi directional for stopping services. The loop below this no longer exists though I do believe that originally there were 2 tracks between the platform lines. I vaguely remember in my childhood, DMUs and the odd parcel van being left on this line(s). Presumably in my steam era, the station pilot would often be found lurking here. The through line below this is for Westbound express workings. The spur at the bottom left was for Sheffield departures and I think sometimes for stopping services to Manchester? The double spur at the bottom right did not exist. Huddersfield had a goods yard behind the station but I do not want lines so far from the baseboard edge so have brought a couple of sidings to the front for wagons and perhaps parcels vans adjacent to the unmarked platform. As this is fictional, I have no prototype to base on so: do you think that these 2 sidings should have a headshunt or be left as they are? (I am not a big one for shunting goods wagons around hence a very passenger stock oriented design) My question is in 2 parts: 1. Does the station layout work as is (+/- a headshunt) or are there alterations which would improve either the appearance or operation? 2.Are there any FUNDAMENTAL problems with Templot such as eg clearances ( I have not yet managed to work out how to move dummy vehicles on adjacent tracks to ensure no clashes) or curves too tight: I had aimed for ruling radius of 36" but some of the turnouts have short lengths down to I THINK 30" which is acceptable over very short distances...or anything else screaming out at an experienced modeller? I am very open to suggestions. I would rather display my ignorance here and receive some guidance rather than stick my head in the sand and then end up with issues leading to disappointment. Here in semi rural Queensland I have no one to bounce ideas off. Richard |
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| Attachment: attach_2370_2959_Ravensfield_7.box 253 | |||
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posted: 29 Dec 2016 01:37 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Richard, Welcome to Templot Club.  That's very impressive for a first plan with Templot. I guess you created that by joining individual templates? I'm sure others will explain how to remove the geometric look and put the station throat on a flowing S-curve transition. You asked about how to check clearances with the dummy vehicle tool. I have made you a bit of scruffy video showing the basics. See: http://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=5nCtH2kgd6-uvHhoWDIn4Q2 Sorry I don't have time to make a proper edited video at present. I will make another video clip shortly, showing how to fix the clearance problem. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 29 Dec 2016 03:09 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Richard, Here is the second video clip, showing how to adjust the track centres for running clearance: http://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=aqqMgFdm4XWYk4JP4U1Mzw2 There is more about the dummy vehicle tool here: http://templot.com/companion/dummy_vehicle_tool.html regards, Martin. |
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posted: 29 Dec 2016 05:54 from: drrsenior
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Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Richard,That's really helpful....thank you.It looks as if my track centres are marginally tight and will have to be increased on the next re draw. I was reasonably content with the flow of the trackwork but if another member is able to show me how to take it up to the next level, then I would be really grateful. Richard |
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posted: 30 Dec 2016 02:56 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Richard, Your .box file contains a great many duplicated templates. That's a common problem for beginners - if you look through the topics on here you will see why it happens and how to deal with it. It means Templot is drawing every template 3 or 4 times over, making the screen zoom and pan response much slower than it need be. I guess you made that plan mostly by joining together individual templates, as might be done in "pick and place" track plan programs? That's not the way Templot works for best results. You might like to watch this video, and notice that separate templates are never joined together: http://templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/starter/em_starter.html Looking at your plan there are several places where you have an instant reverse curve: 2_292131_530000000.png  That is very rarely found on the prototype, except perhaps in cramped yards. Apart from looking unprototypical it can also cause rough running and sometimes overthrow and coupling problems. Reverse curves always have a length of straight between them, or else they transition smoothly from one direction to the other in an S-curve. Generally in models we never have enough space, so inserting a length of straight between reverse curves isn't always feasible. But Templot makes it easy to create smooth S-curve transitions in place of reverse curves: 2_292139_340000000.png  Here I have used Templot's make transition function to create a sweeping S-curve transition between your curves at A and B. You can see what I meant by a less geometric and more flowing design. Now we can create another transition for the other running line, and start inserting the pointwork into the curves: 2_292143_000000000.png  I changed some of your turnouts to C-10 size. That is always a good size to use if you have room for them when creating curved pointwork, allowing easier radii than shorter curved turnouts. This is the result: 2_292145_330000000.png  You can see that this has a more prototypical flow to it in the yellow tracks than your original unmodified blue tracks at the top. Here is the same section when printed out for construction: 2_292148_520000000.png  regards, Martin. |
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posted: 1 Jan 2017 11:25 from: drrsenior
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Hi Martin, Thank you for spending more time on this for me. Your amendments to those couple of running lines really demonstrate how smooth and flowing it can be so I now know what to aspire to! Did you keep the .box files by any chance so that I could look at how you put it together? Finding a tutorial on 'make transition' has rattled my brain a bit so I think I need to take a big step backwards and try to improve my foundations before trying to move further forward. I have found a 70 page tutorial that you produced in an earlier version of Templot; I think working my way through that despite the changes will probably be time well spent. Unfortunately, much though I would like to press on,I am not retired yet so work is going to get in the way for a few days after tomorrow. Richard |
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posted: 1 Jan 2017 13:58 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Richard, Here is a scruffy bit of video showing the make transition function: http://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=mRnp5syNq72LcpXE4ek1mg2 There is an (old) tutorial on make transition here: http://templot.com/martweb/info_files/make_trans.htm I have made some improvements to that function in the next program update, so when (if ever  ) I get it released, I will make a new video/tutorial. Make transition has been discussed many times on here.All about transition curves is here: http://templot.com/martweb/gs_geometry.htm#transition Here is the .box file attached. It is not quite the same as the screenshots above. Interestingly, your plan provides opportunities to use the parallel type of V-crossing, which doesn't happen very often. p.s. the very old "track plan" tutorial was produced for the first release of Templot 18 years ago. It omits so much useful stuff which has been added since that it is hardly worth following. I have been minded to delete it for years, but several members here say they continue to find it useful. See also Allan Ferguson's tutorial, itself now several years old: http://templot.com/companion/getting_started_allan_ferguson.html regards, Martin. |
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| Attachment: attach_2371_2959_richard_flow_throat.box 191 | |||
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posted: 2 Jan 2017 10:28 from: drrsenior
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Hi Martin, With your help,I have made significant progress. I have still struggled with the 'make transition': sometimes I had no problems, other times Templot would not allow it and to date I have not worked out the reason behind the differences. (It may have something to do with our very hot and humid weather today; our temperature in Centigrade is probably higher than yours in Fahrenheit at present and the desktop is not in air conditioning so concentration has not been the easiest!) Overall keying off your work, I am reasonably happy with the Eastern throat. There is a B8 back in there for the shed headshunt,partly because I think it looks appropriate; but also I have a C&L B8 turnout kit on its way to me. If it goes well, I will probably keep it before moving on to building with home made 'V's and blades for the other turnouts. Some of the Western throat went well, but there were elements which I could just not make work in the organic flowing way that you indicated. At present it is a bit of a cobble together but it is the best I could manage in the time available before having to do some work for a living tomorrow. Richard Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Richard, |
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| Attachment: attach_2372_2959_Ravensfield_10.box 199 | |||
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posted: 3 Jan 2017 05:50 from: Martin Wynne
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drrsenior wrote:I have still struggled with the 'make transition': sometimes I had no problems, other times Templot would not allow it and to date I have not worked out the reason behind the differences.Hi Richard, If Templot can't make a transition, the reason is almost certainly that the originating curves intersect (cross over). In that circumstance a transition curve between them is mathematically impossible. You need to adjust the radius of one or other of them, or both, until that is no longer the case. Sometimes in order to see whether they intersect it is necessary to extend the length of them. Possibly as far as complete circles. You can then see what you are doing in adjusting the radii. Also, if one of them is a transition curve, you must correctly tell Templot which end of it to use in the calculations. regards, Martin. |
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