Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 341Cutting Rail
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posted: 19 Feb 2008 23:58

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Getting desperately short of excuses I'm really going to have to start building track soon. But first, a question: In 0 gauge, with a 6ft radius curve and sleepers securely fixed will cutting a rail to make an isolation gap cause the rail to kink (not the act of cutting it itself), or will it stay put well enough?

Cheers
Richard
Last edited on 19 Feb 2008 23:59 by BeamEnds
posted: 20 Feb 2008 02:06

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote:
Getting desperately short of excuses I'm really going to have to start building track soon. But first, a question: In 0 gauge, with a 6ft radius curve and sleepers securely fixed will cutting a rail to make an isolation gap cause the rail to kink (not the act of cutting it itself), or will it stay put well enough?

Cheers
Richard
Richard,

I try to pre-bend 7mm scale rail to the curve required before laying so that breaks in curves don't dogleg.   If you just spring the rail into position and rely on the chairs to hold it in place on the curve,  then the rail will "uncoil" when you cut it.   Code125 rail has a fair spring in it - certainly the bullhead rail does and I would think flatbottom rail would be even worse.

Sometimes you can't pre-bend the short section at the end of a rail,  even with a rail bender,  so you might have to cut the rail overlength before bending,  then cut off the short straight bit at the end.

Jim.

posted: 20 Feb 2008 02:38

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
Sometimes you can't pre-bend the short section at the end of a rail, even with a rail bender,  so you might have to cut the rail overlength before bending, then cut off the short straight bit at the end.
Hi Jim, Richard,

For bullhead rail, try laying the end on a block of hard rubber, and rolling it firmly with a bit of wooden dowel (about 3/4"-ish dia for 0 gauge) like a rolling pin. That way you can usually get a smooth curve all the way to the end of the rail. It's also a good method for short bits of rail such as curved check rails.

For a suitable bit of rubber, try toy and novelty shops for "the BIG rubber for BIG mistakes". (That's an eraser for those on the left side of the pond. :) )

regards,

Martin.

posted: 20 Feb 2008 03:30

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Hi Jim and Martin,
thanks for that. I'll have to plan the electrics in advance....... decision time!

Cheers
Richard
Last edited on 20 Feb 2008 03:33 by BeamEnds
posted: 20 Feb 2008 17:46

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote:
Getting desperately short of excuses I'm really going to have to start building track soon. But first, a question: In 0 gauge, with a 6ft radius curve and sleepers securely fixed will cutting a rail to make an isolation gap cause the rail to kink (not the act of cutting it itself), or will it stay put well enough?

Depends what you use to cut it Richard. Certainly I would not use a Xuron type cutter in this situation. You could use a cutting disc - with suitable eye protection, but you run the risk of cutting into adjacent rails, it is impossible to cut the rail absolutely square and the gap can well be too wide.

Surely, with careful planning - and what better help than Templot, cutting in-situ is unnecessary. I guess I have constructed as many turnouts and trackwork arrays as most folk and I never cut in-situ.

Regards

Brian Lewis

Carrs -- C+L Finescale.

http://www.finescale.org.uk

posted: 20 Feb 2008 17:57

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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Apologies Richard, I wanted to check  the spelling of a word and pressed 'Send' instead, thus ignoring the second part of your question.

Pre-rolling of the rail will work with steel rail, but is less successful on nickel silver rail - especially 'HiNi' which is harder and springier than steel and normal nickel silver.

Now air gaps to not appear on prototype railways - not intentionally anyway... and you can purchase insulating fish-plates and when glued with an adhesive like Loctite 435, will hold rails in line. Don't forget also, that generally, the two sleepers surrounding any joint will usually be closer together than the normal sleeper spacing and will also be 12" wide. By doing this you help restrain the curve of the rail, as well as making your layout more prototypical.

But generally it is better to plan your section breaks to avoid gaps on curves where possible.

Regards

Brian Lewis

Carrs -- C+L Finescale.

http://www.finescale.org.uk

posted: 20 Feb 2008 20:03

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian
especially 'HiNi' which is harder and springier than steel and normal nickel silver.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but you never did answer the question of whether the HiNi rail is what you supply by default if we order code 75 bullhead from you :)

posted: 20 Feb 2008 20:54

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote: 
Sorry to hijack the thread, but you never did answer the question of whether the HiNi rail is what you supply by default if we order code 75 bullhead from you :)
Oh! Apologies for that Paul. The situation is as follows:

7mm.
All track, rail, Switch Blades and Common Crossings are now HiNi.
Vees and switch and vee sets are a mixture - mainly 9% nickel.

4mm.
Currently Rail and 'Turnout in a Bag' kits are the only items that you can be sure are HiNi.

I think you can understand that there will be a changeover period when we will have both - and clearly have to sell the residual 9% stocks first. But the older stock is dwindling fast - for example we still have older A & B switch blades. But by Friday, hopefully I will have finished 250 sets of B Blades.

If anyone specifically requests it and we have stocks of that item in HiNi, we will happily send same. Otherwise it will be the older material.

Regards

Brian Lewis

Carrs -- C+L Finescale.

http://www.finescale.org.uk

posted: 21 Feb 2008 00:40

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Brian Lewis wrote:
Apologies Richard, I wanted to check  the spelling of a word and pressed 'Send' instead, thus ignoring the second part of your question.

Pre-rolling of the rail will work with steel rail, but is less successful on nickel silver rail - especially 'HiNi' which is harder and springier than steel and normal nickel silver.

Now air gaps to not appear on prototype railways - not intentionally anyway... and you can purchase insulating fish-plates and when glued with an adhesive like Loctite 435, will hold rails in line. Don't forget also, that generally, the two sleepers surrounding any joint will usually be closer together than the normal sleeper spacing and will also be 12" wide. By doing this you help restrain the curve of the rail, as well as making your layout more prototypical.

But generally it is better to plan your section breaks to avoid gaps on curves where possible.

Regards

Brian Lewis

Carrs -- C+L Finescale.

http://www.finescale.org.uk
Hi Brian,
thanks for the reply. I like the idea of the Loctite and, I presume, using the "dummy " fish plates. I always found the insulating plastic joiners were less than statisfactory over time on previous layouts, leading to derailments. My plan was to cut the rail with my "indusrtrial strength" Dremmel type tool with a very thin blade then fit false fishplates to "hide" the gap (both rails, obvioulsy, for realism). I think I might have to resort to my old tactic using a pair of long thin screws in the baseboard with the rail soldered to them with the cut in between - ballast can be good camoflage! Avoiding section breaks on curves on Soddingham is going to be tricky!

Anyway, thanks again for the replies all, at least I've avoided a mistake I was going to make. I might even be able to provide photograhpic evidence of real (as opposed to virtual) progress soon - Dust Mat Dan the chippy needed some bits for his Landy so the baseboards are on their way!

Now DCC or not........ (no - don't answer that! Really.)

Cheers
Richard



posted: 21 Feb 2008 00:43

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian
4mm. Currently Rail and 'Turnout in a Bag' kits are the only items that you can be sure are HiNi
Excellent - thanks Brian.  I'll disappear off this thread now :)

posted: 21 Feb 2008 02:49

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote:
Avoiding section breaks on curves on Soddingham is going to be tricky!

Hence the name? :)

John

posted: 21 Feb 2008 02:52

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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The soldered screw idea has merits, especially as you can use them as current feeds.

DCC? (Non controversial mode engaged?). I find it difficult to believe that anyone would start a layout now that was not DCC. :)

Regards

Brian Lewis

posted: 21 Feb 2008 03:03

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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John Lewis wrote:
BeamEnds wrote:
Avoiding section breaks on curves on Soddingham is going to be tricky!

Hence the name? :)

John
Ha! 10 Jolly Junior Points and a Gold Star to that man. The name came from a discussion in the cellar with 'Er Indoors. After explaining just how big 0 was she asked how I was going to fit it in. "It's going to be a sod" says I.......... (I've now been promoted to the loft, not much bigger but it all helps).
A brief google found that there once was a Duke of Soddingham, and another layout with "sodding" in the title, so I added -Under-Piddle.

Cheers
Richard

posted: 21 Feb 2008 03:12

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Brian Lewis wrote:
The soldered screw idea has merits, especially as you can use them as current feeds.

DCC? (Non controversial mode engaged?). I find it difficult to believe that anyone would start a layout now that was not DCC. :)

Regards

Brian Lewis
Musn't......be.....drawn.......argh....... no........ no...........oh well.

All I say is this: My budget allows for one engine every 2 years or so, I hate sound, and you couldn't see lights on the real thing (early 80's) in daylight, and DCC costs as much as a (small) engine. Plus I tend to operate from the Signalmans perspective rather that the drivers. So it comes down to cost vs. complexity of wiring for me - and I still haven't decided which is more important.

Cheers
Richard

posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:37

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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BeamEnds wrote
All I say is this: My budget allows for one engine every 2 years or so, I hate sound, and you couldn't see lights on the real thing (early 80's) in daylight, and DCC costs as much as a (small) engine. Plus I tend to operate from the Signalmans perspective rather that the drivers. So it comes down to cost vs. complexity of wiring for me - and I still haven't decided which is more important.

Well I haven't sound or lights Richard. But DCC wins on the ease of controlling locomotives, turnouts and signals. Wiring can be as easy as droppers attached to a central  two wire bus bar.

I think with DCC it does depend on the make of kit you purchase. Most are good, some are not so good. I use NCE which is brilliant in operation and so easy to use.

Regards

Brian Lewis

posted: posted: 21 Feb 2008 23:51

from:

BeamEnds
 
 

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Brian Lewis wrote:
BeamEnds wrote
All I say is this: My budget allows for one engine every 2 years or so, I hate sound, and you couldn't see lights on the real thing (early 80's) in daylight, and DCC costs as much as a (small) engine. Plus I tend to operate from the Signalmans perspective rather that the drivers. So it comes down to cost vs. complexity of wiring for me - and I still haven't decided which is more important.

Well I haven't sound or lights Richard. But DCC wins on the ease of controlling locomotives, turnouts and signals. Wiring can be as easy as droppers attached to a central  two wire bus bar.

I think with DCC it does depend on the make of kit you purchase. Most are good, some are not so good. I use NCE which is brilliant in operation and so easy to use.

Regards

Brian Lewis
Hi Brian,
its' the cost! Or rather cost benefit. I have no worries about wiring the layout, indeed I intend having a good old old-fashioned control panel for the points and signals, possibly powered with a PIC microcontroller. This is so I can mimic a panel - that's definately me being sad and trying to re-live my Railway days I'm affraid! I had a Zero I when they first came out, and while it was fantastic for a large double track main line, branch and shunting layout, I think for Soddinghan, with one rather lonely engine for the foreseeable future, and one operator, I don't see any immediate benefit to DCC now I've thought it through. I've an awful lot of sleepers and rail to buy next, so a s/h Clipper or similar will meet my needs for a year or three yet I expect, as well as use up the available funds. Had I gone down the Plan A 00 tail-chaser route I would agree - not using DCC would be madness.

Cheers
Richard

21 Feb 2008 23:51

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Brian Lewis wrote:
DCC? (Non controversial mode engaged?). I find it difficult to believe that anyone would start a layout now that was not DCC. :)
We don't all live in poshe areas with Carol "Tree Vandal" Vorderman and Johnny Depp as neighbours :)

Actually, beside me now is a plan for a light railway layout that has shades of Clevedon (WC&PR) about it, because if I ever get all the light locos built that I have kits for I'll need somewhere to display them.  So, lots of locos, small space, DCC :D
Last edited on 21 Feb 2008 23:51 by Paul Boyd
posted: 22 Feb 2008 00:44

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote: 
We don't all live in poshe areas with Carol "Tree Vandal" Vorderman and Johnny Depp as neighbours :)
We've never found out if Brian considers their presence raised or lowered the tone of the area.:D

Jim.

posted: 23 Feb 2008 00:31

from:

George Harris
 
United Kingdom

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Brian Lewis wrote:
The soldered screw idea has merits, especially as you can use them as current feeds.

DCC? (Non controversial mode engaged?). I find it difficult to believe that anyone would start a layout now that was not DCC. :)

Regards

Brian Lewis

Err, yes n no Brian. I actually build stuff in 16mm:1ft 1:19 scale narrow gauge most of the time and it is all either radio controlled using conventional R/C equipment using up to six channels or it's a case of letting the thing go after some pre-judgement about speed and gradients and setting the regulator carefully. I have 2 diesels and 2 live steam locos operational at present and a large rack tank under construction. Completely avoids the problem of track circuits. Signalling really has to be adhered to and gradients seriously impede load and speed. The one thing that we do have in common is the buildup of muck on the rails which in my case is a mixture of fine dust, steam oil, leaves and bird muck! Takes some shifting if left for too long. And blackbirds are a real pain...DCC is however an excellent half way step. I've had to help others to set it up and it is brilliant when it works first time.

ATB

George


posted: 26 Feb 2008 15:45

from:

Brian Tulley
 
United Kingdom

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Brian Lewis wrote:
4mm.
Currently Rail and 'Turnout in a Bag' kits are the only items that you can be sure are HiNi.

I think you can understand that there will be a changeover period when we will have both - and clearly have to sell the residual 9% stocks first. But the older stock is dwindling fast - for example we still have older A & B switch blades. But by Friday, hopefully I will have finished 250 sets of B Blades.

If anyone specifically requests it and we have stocks of that item in HiNi, we will happily send same. Otherwise it will be the older material.

Hi Brian,

Can you give any guidance regarding purchasing C&L 4mm HiNi rail from either the EMGS Stores or my local model railway shop please? Assuming their turnover of rail is reasonable then will the rail they stock be HiNi? (How long has HiNi rail been supplied by C&L?). Or is there an easy way for the layman to tell - maybe wording/barcoding on a box for example? Many thanks.

Best Regards,

Brian Tulley.

posted: 26 Feb 2008 17:09

from:

Brian Lewis
 
United Kingdom

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Brian Tulley wrote
Can you give any guidance regarding purchasing C&L 4mm HiNi rail from either the EMGS Stores or my local model railway shop please? Assuming their turnover of rail is reasonable then will the rail they stock be HiNi? (How long has HiNi rail been supplied by C&L?). Or is there an easy way for the layman to tell - maybe wording/barcoding on a box for example? Many thanks.
Hi Brian,

EMGS Stores do not purchase their rail from us, so it will not be HiNi. As we only used up stocks of 9% Ni at the end of last week, it is not yet available in any retail outlets.

Regards

Brian Lewis

Carrs -- C+L Finescale.

http://www.finescale.org.uk

posted: 26 Feb 2008 19:14

from:

Brian Tulley
 
United Kingdom

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Brian Lewis wrote
EMGS Stores do not purchase their rail from us, so it will not be HiNi. As we only used up stocks of 9% Ni at the end of last week, it is not yet available in any retail outlets.
Hi Brian,

Thanks for the reply. My local model railway shop (KS Models in Stevenage) wasn't aware of "HiNi" but did say they had an order in for some rail with you at the moment. So would they now receive HiNi? (I like to support the local shop where practical). If not then what is the approximate carriage charge for 100m of code 75 B/H please? Thanks.

Best Regards,

Brian.

posted: 26 Feb 2008 20:03

from:

Dave Summers
 
Urchfont, Devizes - United Kingdom

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Brian Tulley wrote:
If not then what is the approximate carriage charge for 100m of code 75 B/H please? Thanks.
Forgive me for being an old grouch but this forum is hardly the place to conduct commercial enquiries when there exists a perfectly appropriate alternative. E.g. C&L at sales@finescale.org.uk

Regards

Dave Summers



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