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Hi Martin,

Being able to export a folders worth of T2 files ( well those that are selected ) for MEC/OT will certainly be good going forward. Will you still see the warning message regarding the template labels when opening .box files created some time ago ?

... while I waited for OTBOX files.

I just realised that I can create my own OTBOX files using OT!  Duh!

Yes, the open-source versions are fully functional and usable in their own right. That was the whole point of releasing them.

Ideally it would have been better to create an OT function to import BOX files directly. I tried to do that originally, but reading the 80-bit values in Lazarus got messy and error-prone. At some stage someone might want to have another go at that.

However, I have some software which can convert old .hlp files to web pages (after a fashion), so I have done that for you ...

OK OK - Don't rub it in - hahahaha

BTW, a thought occurred to me.  We have a few formats out there now and that number will not, in my experience, go down.   Is it possible by reading the first few bytes of a file to determine what format it was written in?

This is a forum, not a personal conversation. I try always to remember that I'm writing for everyone to read, not only the person who asked a question. And that whatever I do write will be indexed on Google for 100 years and read by folks in 10 years time who are new to the whole thing. We are not trying to be Facebook, where today's post is tomorrow's chip paper.

BOX and OTBOX binary files both start with the same string of 12 bytes:

03 4E 20 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

but BOX and OTBOX files can't be separated that way, they are both the same. Only the first 4 bytes are actually tested on loading.

Pardon me for being a little confused here but if somebody were to write some code that implemented a new feature for MEC ( say outside slips or 90 degree Retford style crossings ) would that get added to T2 by you as well ? .....and are you to be a contributor to MEC and update the repository with your new chunks of code when in appears in T2 ?

Rob Manchester wrote:

Pardon me for being a little confused here but if somebody were to write some code that implemented a new feature for MEC ( say outside slips or 90 degree Retford style crossings ) would that get added to T2 by you as well ? .....and are you to be a contributor to MEC and update the repository with your new chunks of code when in appears in T2 ?

Hi Rob,

You are not the only one a bit confused.

The first thing to establish is whether this latest interest in OT/MEC turns out to be lasting, or is merely a flash in the pan. We have been here before, remember. Time will tell.

If it does, then as far as getting everything currently in T2 into OT/MEC -- yes that's my intention. After which OT/MEC would become the "official" public version of Templot. And yes I would continue to contribute to it -- with others. But that happy state is going to take some time to achieve, and a perfect equivalence may not be possible. Some things may have to be let go, for example direct scanning into picture shapes.

In the meantime if someone posts some code to do say Dundalk Square Crossing in MEC, ideally I would want to incorporate it into T2. But it needs their permission to do so, because I can't just use other people's open-source stuff in closed-source T2 as of right.

What I don't want to happen is that I end up as the sole contributor to OT/MEC, with the extra work of open-sourcing everything. If that happens I would rather leave OT/MEC as-is and continue with T2.

cheers,

Martin.

I have now changed the 12th byte to FF in OTBOX files to differentiate them from BOX files:

This is solely to identify the source of the file, it is not read on normal loading so doesn't prevent any existing OTBOX files from loading.

The new MECBOX files are text files, and at present start as:

DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
=====================
template data - saved from Templot2 version 2.24.a
saved at 01:38:32 on 29/10/2019
29 templates from Downingham EM

which is invariant as far as "from ". But could be changed to anything we want.

Could you outline the file structure you intend to use?

Could you please let me know what you changed for this (maybe a couple of before/after clips) and I will put it into my version. I do not want to release anything which writes OTBOX files without this byte set.

The editor formatting on here is a bit iffy*, so I have put the code changes in a web page:

 http://templot.com/companion/code_snips.php

PS
This is drifting off topic. May I suggest it is moved to a new topic "File Formats" or some such?

PS
This is drifting off topic. May I suggest it is moved to a new topic "File Formats" or some such?

Now done.

Here is a bit more of it:

DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
=====================
template data - saved from TemplotMEC version 2.24.a
saved_at 03:11:43 on 29/10/2019
26 templates from Downingham EM
 
0000-i=26
 
```
0999-i=0
1000-s=N 0
1005-i=145686781
1010-s=01/08/2019
1015-s=02:33:51
1020-s= BH • EM  half-diamond K- 8  +  V- 8   RH
1025-s=Downingham EM
1030-s=[slip 023300]  slip half-diamond

... etc ...

#DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#=====================
[overview]
format-version = 3
program = "TemplotMEC"
version = "2.24.a"
saved = 2019-10-29T03:11:43
template-count = 26
[templates]
  [templates.1] # Note indenting allowed but not required
  [templates.1.settings]
  index = 0
  something = "N 0"
  bignum = 145686781
  sometime = 2019-08-01T02:33:51
  somedesc = "BH • EM half-diamond K- 8 + V- 8 RH"
  name = "Downingham EM"
  type = "[slip 023300] slip half-diamond"
  ...etc ...
    [templates.1.infos]
      [templates.1.info.1]
        text = "memo text ... "
    [templates.1.memos]
      [templates.1.memos.1]
        text = "memo text ... "

  [templates.2]
    [templates.2.settings]
      index = 7
...etc ...

<!-- DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE -->
<!-- =================== -->
<templot-box>
 <overview>
  <format-version>3</format-version>
  <program>TemplotMEC</program>
  <version>2.24.a</version>
  <saved>2019-10-29T03:11:43</saved>
 </overview>
 <templates>
  <template>
   <settings>
    <index>0</index>
    <something>N 0</something>
    <bignum>145686781</bignum>
    <sometime>2019-08-01T02:33:51</sometime>
    <somedesc>BH • EM  half-diamond K- 8  +  V- 8   RH</somedesc>
    <name>Downingham EM</name>
    <type>[slip 023300]  slip half-diamond</type>
 ...etc ...
   </settings>
   <infos>
    <info>
     <text>info text ... </text>
    </info>
   </infos>
   <memos>
    <memo>
     <text>memo text ... </text>
    </memo>
   </memos>
  </template>

  <template>
   <settings>
    <index>7</index>
 ...etc ...
   </settings>
  </template>
</templates>

{
  "comment-1": "#DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE",
  "comment-2": "#=====================",
  "overview": {
    "format-version": 3,
    "program": "TemplotMEC",
    "version": "2.24.a",
    "saved": 2019-10-29T03:11:43,
  },
  "templates": [
    {
      "settings": {
        "index": 0,
        "something": "N 0",
        "bignum": 145686781,
        "sometime": 2019-08-01T02:33:51,
        "somedesc": "BH • EM  half-diamond K- 8  +  V- 8   RH",
        "name": "Downingham EM",
        "type": "[slip 023300]  slip half-diamond"
   ...etc ...
      },
      "infos": [
        "info": {
          "text": info text ... ",
        },
      },
      "memos": [
        {
          "text": "memo text ... "
        }
      }
    },
    {
      "settings": {
        "index": 7,
    ...etc ...
    }
  }
}

---  #DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
       #=====================

overview:
  format-version: 3
  program: TemplotMEC
  version: 2.24.a
  saved: 2019-10-29T03:11:43
  template-count = 26 # comment only      

templates:
  - index = 0
    something = "N 0"
    bignum = 145686781
    sometime = 2019-08-01T02:33:51
    somedesc = "BH • EM  half-diamond K- 8  +  V- 8   RH"
    name = "Downingham EM"
    type = "[slip 023300]  slip half-diamond"
 ...etc ...
   infos:
     - text: memo text ...
   memos:
     - text: memo text ...

  - index = 7
 ...etc ...

This is not too far removed from the old 'ini' files from DOS days. Basically a simple store of key-value pairs (which is pretty much to be expected for this kind of application).

Field Names
We spoke earlier about readability and its importance. To help this I would strongly suggest having meaningful (and unique) names for the fields as it will make life easier when viewing these files.

For example, lines 1010 and 1015 are both called "s" but one is a date and one is a time.

Values['1120-b']:=IntToStr(......

Yes, I think I mentioned that I intended to use the old Windows ini files format, ...

What is needed is an entirely new file format based on XML or similar. ... If someone wanted to contribute to OpenTemplot, creating a new file export/import format in XML would be a massive step forward.

However what does compile in Lazarus is the old-fashioned Windows INI files format, ...  It works just fine, so I'm tempted to use it for a new compatible BOX file format, rather than XML or any of the other fancier suggestions.

I don't see any need for the MECBOX format to replace the native OTBOX format for normal use,

Had I realised that the INI file was a fait accompli I would not have bothered with all of this.

Please don't spend any time on a new file format, or at least not yet. I've spent the last few days on that and I'm close to having something usable. If you are looking for something to have a go at, how about the file viewer function?

What is needed is an entirely new file format based on XML or similar. ... If someone wanted to contribute to OpenTemplot, creating a new file export/import format in XML would be a massive step forward.

I'm very sorry if you feel I have misled you in some way.

But we are where we are. One of the reasons I was doubtful about going the open-source route for Templot is that I have a feeling I'm on a different page in the hymn book from everyone else.

But we are where we are. One of the reasons I was doubtful about going the open-source route for Templot is that I have a feeling I'm on a different page in the hymn book from everyone else.

cheers,

Martin.