Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 4 Feb 2020 13:53 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I was wondering if any member here has constructed Templot files for Marcway or C&L O gauge turnouts. Im trying to build a track diagram in Templot and trying to avoid having to make all those templates Thanks dave |
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posted: 4 Feb 2020 14:21 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote: I was wondering if any member here has constructed Templot files for Marcway or C&L O gauge turnouts. I'm trying to build a track diagram in Templot and trying to avoid having to make all those templatesHi Dave, Are the turnouts already built? Otherwise you would probably do better to use Templot templates. The C&L ones are probably quite close, although they will be for 32mm GOG-F whereas many track builders in 7mm scale have gone over to 31.5mm 0-MF. Marcway templates are not based on the prototype and might be difficult to match exactly. See this topic for more about matching a 0 gauge Marcway tandem, and a BOX file: topic 3326 cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 4 Feb 2020 15:17 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
No track is not yet built The person involved would like to use Marcway , but they dont provide paper templates AFAIK |
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posted: 4 Feb 2020 16:12 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Dave, Can you clarify? Someone wants to buy ready-made Marcway turnouts? Or wants to build Marcway turnout kits? (the kits include a template). Either way, I don't think Templot is the right software to plan a Marcway layout. Try AnyRail instead. By all means buy Marcway turnout kits, but discard the supplied template and build them on Templot templates.  cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 4 Feb 2020 23:57 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
The point is Martin , anyrsil or any other setback style system doesn’t have marcway either The issue is how do you plan electronically using marcway. I dont intend to build the marcway track as I don’t like them, but I have been asked to plan it with the ability to print proper templates. That’s why I am using templot |
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| Last edited on 4 Feb 2020 23:59 by madscientist |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 00:30 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote: The point is Martin , Anyrail or any other set-track style system doesn’t have Marcway eitherHi Dave, I think David Hoogvorst at AnyRail would be interested to know that there is a UK track system which isn't covered in AnyRail -- he has the C&L templates for example. If you contact him and give him the details I'm sure he would want to contact Marcway and get it included. The issue is how do you plan electronically using Marcway? I dont intend to build the Marcway track as I don’t like them, but I have been asked to plan it with the ability to print proper templates. That’s why I am using Templot.You can't have "proper" templates for the ready-made Marcway pointwork -- for example the tandem which I linked to earlier has a check rail missing, and the timbering is wrong. You still haven't said whether you are intending to buy the ready-made pointwork from Marcway, or build the kits? If the kits, by far the best solution is to discard the Marcway templates and build them on Templot templates instead. That way you can have proper curved turnouts for example. If ready-made, if you can scan one and post it here I will see if it's possible to create a reasonable match in Templot for it -- I did one for the SMP 00 plastic turnout a few days ago. But I can't possibly do the entire Marcway range, I don't have the time, sorry. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 01:20 from: Andrew Barrowman
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Marcway list "Layout Planner Photoplans of O Gauge Range" on their website. Cost £11.95 I suppose they could be imported as background shapes in Templot and used to quickly generate "best match" turnout templates. |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 09:24 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: The point is Martin , anyrsil or any other setback style system doesn’t have marcway eitherDave As far as C&L is concerned, their plans use standard railway formula. So a C&L plan for a B6 turnout will be the same size (details such as timber placing and rail joints differ slightly) as a B6 template within Templot You could buy a set of plans from Marcway, scan their images into Templot and adjust a standard turnout fo match it. But why go to the bother if you are not going to build them. If you were going down the C&L route most builders buying kits or plans go for either A5 or A6 plans |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 12:05 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I haven’t bought anything yet. As I said the preference for marcway is the personal preference of the person asking me to lay out the track. As I said I wouldn’t use Marcway myself as I scratch build track myself. The issue was how to electronically design a track plan for marcway I also feel paying for paper templates is a bit rich And thank u martin I was not expecting you to do anything , it was more of someone had done this already I might convince the person to use C&L anyway. I’m at the Kettering show and will ask both suppliers |
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| Last edited on 5 Feb 2020 12:08 by madscientist |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 15:16 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote: The issue was how to electronically design a track plan for MarcwayHi Dave, You can't, unless and until someone somewhere has the digital data for the Marcway turnouts. That might be: 1. provided by Marcway, or 2. included as library files in a program such as AnyRail, or 3. you buy one of each, scan them, and then try to match over them in Templot. Looking at some of the designs, especially the curved turnouts, that won't be easy, or 4. obtain whatever it is that Marcway sell for £11.95 and use that in Templot the same way. I might convince the person to use C&L anywayYou have rather lost me. You still haven't explained whether the plan is to buy Marcway items ready-made, or build pointwork from SMP/Marcway kits? If building, there is no need to buy C&L templates because you can just as easily build on Templot templates (free), and the track planning can then be done in the usual way without needing to import anything. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 21:37 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Sorry Martin , we are not using any prebuilt points , whatever we use will be constructed either from kits or scratch | ||
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posted: 5 Feb 2020 21:53 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote: Sorry Martin , we are not using any prebuilt points , whatever we use will be constructed either from kits or scratchThanks Dave. So where does the need to match Marcway come in? Just set 0 gauge in Templot and off you go. Use the parts from the kits to build on the Templot templates. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 6 Feb 2020 09:39 from: Hayfield
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I think what has happened perhaps is a misunderstanding between the functions of RTR track planning programs and Templot In addition the fact that the parts in a Marcway kit can be used for most sized turnouts (I don't think premade common crossings are supplied). C&L is a bit different as they supply premade switches and crossings in all but the most basic kits What Dave needs to find out is what size turnouts and crossings does his friend want |
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posted: 7 Feb 2020 13:28 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I have no experience with Marcway other then seeing them at the shows My friend “ perceives “ he can make the Marcway point kits ( he is currently going to look at the C& L kits ) The problem is how do I lay out his layout electronically. If I simply use REA turnouts , will I end up with a diagram that then is useless if he decides to use Marcway ? |
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posted: 7 Feb 2020 13:51 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote: The problem is how do I lay out his layout electronically.Hi Dave, Using Marcway products you can't, unless and until you can get the digital data for the Marcway products from somewhere. If I simply use REA turnouts , will I end up with a diagram that then is useless if he decides to use Marcway? ... ... My friend “perceives“ he can make the Marcway point kits What you do with this friend is this: 1. design the layout in Templot. 2. print out the templates. 3. tell your friend to show you the unmade Marcway kit. 4. while he isn't looking, take out the Marcway template and replace it with the Templot template. 5. after he has built it, it will match the layout you created in Templot exactly. Magic! cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 7 Feb 2020 13:59 from: Phil O
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Hi, Getting supplies from Marcway at the moment is a bit problematic as the owner is fighting a losing battle at moment his only member of staff retired last year and has so far not been replaced. I have had some rail on order since last September and I'm still waiting. No monies have changed hands yet. |
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posted: 7 Feb 2020 16:36 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Ok sounds like C&L anyway I’ll speak to both at Kettering Thanks for the advice and help |
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posted: 8 Feb 2020 10:50 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: I have no experience with Marcway other then seeing them at the showsAll Marcway point kits contain a finely cast frog and wing unit to make assembly easy - All nickel silver rails are ground and shaped including the finely tapered blades - They also contain suitable PCB sleepering, tie bar, plans and full instructions - Plans of both left and right hand points are included so that either hand point can be built from the kit - The plans are printed on thin card to which the provided double sided tape can be used to position the sleepers. You will have to scan the Marcway plans into Templot, then adjust a turnout to fit. These are quite cheap but lack the chair detail. With C&L you either buy a complete turnout kit (includes a premade Common crossing and switch rails) £81, requesting the size you require, or just buy the components separately and build the common crossings and switch rails your self (Timber and chair kits £19 + rail A third option is to buy Peco parts, where you can either build your own common crossings, or download an ) gauge plan as they also sell pre-made switch rails, common crossing parts and check rails. Both C&L and Peco use chairs therefore will have matching detail to flexitrack, to add chair detail to marcway kits you will have to add 1mm spacers between each rail and timber. The electrics is exactly the same for each method, with the exception that with copperclad construction each timber needs isolation gaps fitted. |
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posted: 8 Feb 2020 10:56 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Thanks john , I’ve always built my own track. But this is just a design excercise , it sounds like I can’t do anything until after Kettering , if we can get the template sets. Very annoying that a track manufacturer sells the paper templates , OTT in my opinion. It reminiscent of people asking me to pay for their price lists |
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| Last edited on 8 Feb 2020 10:57 by madscientist |
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posted: 8 Feb 2020 11:56 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi John, Dave, It's interesting that the Marcway turnout kits contain cast crossings, but for their ready-built turnouts they say - "and rail built throughout with no cast or moulded parts employed to give optimum quality, appearance and durability" Dave, I think you need to be quite sure what you are getting. If the kits include cast crossings you need to know the angle and the flangeway gap so that you can create Templot turnouts to match. If as they say the kits can be built for either hand, that means the crossings must be straight-over-straight. In Templot that means you won't be able to curve the turnouts, and you can use only regular V-crossings, and you will probably need to extend the crossing entry straight to match the casting. To create curved turnouts you would need to use partial templates, and curve only the lead length up to the cast crossing. Alternatively you could put a zero-length transition at the crossing. The Marcway kit list includes a curved turnout which can also be built for either hand. It must therefore have the same straight crossings in the middle of the ruling curve. All in all, I would want to know exactly what I was getting. Marcway 0 Gauge kits: http://marcway.net/list2.php?col=head&name=Marcway+Point+Kits Marcway 0 Gauge ready-made: http://marcway.net/list2.php?col=head&name=Marcway+O+Gauge+Pointwork cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 8 Feb 2020 19:42 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: Thanks john , I’ve always built my own track. But this is just a design excercise , it sounds like I can’t do anything until after Kettering , if we can get the template sets.Dave Businesses have overheads to cover, plus the cost of design and manufacture I give Phil some help at southeastern shows, send me an email when you are ready and perhaps its a bit easier to understand with a quick chat |
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posted: 9 Feb 2020 23:44 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Businesses have overheads to cover, plus the cost of design and manufacture "Naw" its good business to allow your customers to plan how they will use your very expensive products , this should be free send me an email when you are ready and perhaps its a bit easier to understand with a quick chat whats to understand, Im confused . I build from Templot all the time, my issue is that my friend wants to use Marcway , and I want to design it in Templot hence the original question, which has been answered , ie there are no current box files that I could piggy back on thanks John |
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| Last edited on 9 Feb 2020 23:47 by madscientist |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 00:01 from: Martin Wynne
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madscientist wrote:my friend wants to use Marcway, and I want to design it in TemplotHi Dave, The issue here is that these are two incompatible statements -- and the same would be true if you said Peco, Atlas, Tillig, Hornby set-track, or any other ready-made commercial trackwork. Templot isn't designed or intended to be used for such track planning -- you need a "pick-and-place" program such as AnyRail for that. It's true that there are a few Peco-matching Templot templates for download, but I've never suggested that anyone should actually build them or design a layout using them. The only sensible way to use Marcway with Templot would be to use their kits as a source of components for building Templot turnout designs. For more than that you really do need AnyRail or XTrackCAD or similar, not Templot. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 09:06 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: DaveBusinesses have overheads to cover, plus the cost of design and manufacture Many of the businesses that support the model railway fraternity are basically cottage industries, working on a shoestring. Peco is a large company like Hornby and certainly able to support their RTR turnouts/products by supply downloads to support their products (these are not turnout plans) As for smaller companies supply price lists etc for free, most now have gone down the website route and do not have hard copy paper lists, trouble is at shows people just like collecting paper, picking things up either with good intentions or just out of interest. This all costs the retailer money, some decide its not worth it others do As far as C&L are concerned the plans are part of their product range and are available for sale, just because you don't like it does not make it wrong. As it happens their plans are virtually exactly the same as the ones you print off from Templot, with the exception of chair detail. There are no electrical diagrams or info on the plans, these are available as free downloads from the website Why not ask your friend to either buy a kit or two or buy a set of plans from Marcway, you could scal the plans into Templot and make your own files Good luck with your quest |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 10:00 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I fully understand the issues guys. , it was never an intention to create build templates from this proposed design , the main use was ( and remains ) to use templots curve making ability to lay the track plan appropriately . I also use SCARM, RailModellerPro, Xtrakcad and Traxx3, depending on what features I need on the day So , if I had “ templates “ for marcway , they don’t need to be perfect , ie it’s not intended to be exactly precise. The easiest thing will be to buy paper Templates and recreate the relevant box files in templot. Martin, there are fundamental reasons not to use “ settrack” software , firstly very few support REA turnouts , ( except traxx ) and none can create custom switch and crossing work , like irregular diamonds, which this track design has ! I agree it may be possible to treat the marcway stuff as “ components “ but I do think you get made up crossings etc , which means it’s not so easy John, you’ll never get me to agree that paying for “ planning “ templates ( as opposed to build templates “ is appropriate By the way business websites cost too , so should I be paying to access websites !! The fact is business has costs that are appropriately collected in the selling price of the main product line being offered It would be easy for any such company to offer low resolution versions on their respective websites at little cost |
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| Last edited on 10 Feb 2020 10:06 by madscientist |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 13:02 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Websites are a fixed cost, so appropriately paid for out of the general income of the business. Templates are not. I believe the Marcway ones are printed on good quality card. If somebody decided to use a separate one for each turnout built (or planned) then costs could mount up. Entirely reasonable to charge for them, I would have thought. Nigel |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 13:26 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: I fully understand the issues guys. , it was never an intention to create build templates from this proposed design , the main use was ( and remains ) to use templots curve making ability to lay the track plan appropriately . I also use SCARM, RailModellerPro, Xtrakcad and Traxx3, depending on what features I need on the dayC&L do not provide any form of planning templates, this is left up to the modeller. They do supply a limited selection of detailed plans, for those who do not have the ability to make their own. I will pass on your comments to Phil about supplying some form of track planning aids, but in the limited times I have assisted at shows on the stand this has never been requested. |
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 15:53 from: Stephen Freeman
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anyrail has C&L planning templates | ||
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posted: 10 Feb 2020 20:25 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Thanks John The issue is how do people who don’t drive software plan using C&L |
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posted: 11 Feb 2020 04:30 from: Andrew Barrowman
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ |
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posted: 11 Feb 2020 09:33 from: Hayfield
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madscientist wrote: Thanks JohnExactly the same as they did before computers were wildly available. They would either draw their own or obtain plans from societies or manufactures. |
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posted: 11 Feb 2020 09:40 from: Hayfield
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Stephen Freeman wrote: anyrail has C&L planning templatesI wonder if C&L have given their permission as I thought the plans were subject to copyright ? |
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posted: 11 Feb 2020 15:42 from: Stephen Freeman
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who knows - been there quite a long time, I have version 6 (free one), which I don't use very often, last time was a couple of years ago and that was for a Peco 16.5mm storage yard design. Mind you I wouldn't want to try and build one from it. Hayfield wrote: Stephen Freeman wrote:anyrail has C&L planning templatesI wonder if C&L have given their permission as I thought the plans were subject to copyright ? |
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| Last edited on 11 Feb 2020 15:48 by Stephen Freeman |
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posted: 13 Feb 2020 10:59 from: madscientist click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hayfield wrote: Stephen Freeman wrote:i see its on the anyrail list all rightanyrail has C&L planning templatesI wonder if C&L have given their permission as I thought the plans were subject to copyright ? |
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