Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 3730Y I can't I get a Y point !
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posted: 4 Aug 2020 00:23

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Hi,
I can get all sorts of turnout templates as a Templot novice, but not an equal (or unequal) Y point. I have searched the forum and although I have found 3 different postings from Martin, I still can't get a Y point! Can someone please explain, each baby step by baby step, how I can get half a diamond crossing matched up to half a turnout.........please?

Baffled and frustrated!

Cheers, 

Eve


Last edited on 4 Aug 2020 00:24 by Eve Wallis
posted: 4 Aug 2020 00:33

from:

Andrew Barrowman
 
USA

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Not sure if it's the best method but you can CURVE a turnout (mouse action) to make it a Y.
Last edited on 4 Aug 2020 00:33 by Andrew Barrowman
posted: 4 Aug 2020 00:53

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Hello Eve,

Too late at night to do much thinking but take a look at this forum post :-

topic 3456

It may help you.

Rob


posted: 4 Aug 2020 01:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Eve Wallis wrote:
I can get all sorts of turnout templates as a Templot novice, but not an equal (or unequal) Y point

Hi Eve,

The underlying problem, at least in the UK, is that a symmetrical Y-turnout is quite rare on the prototype. The traditional way in Templot was to leave it to experienced users to create one from a collection of partial templates, as they would for any other unusual prototype formation.

For less experienced users, a satisfactory result has always been possible by applying some contraflexure (negative curving radius) to an ordinary turnout. And quite often that was actually the correct prototypical result required (for example where one of the roads is a running line).

Over the years I wrote several posts explaining the above.

I then hit on the idea of using an irregular half-diamond template as the basis of a symmetrical Y-turnout, which I described here:

 topic 2768

and here:

 topic 3456 - message 27233

It is by no means perfect, but it's usable. More importantly, it reflects the fact that it is now very unlikely that I will ever be doing the complete re-write of the template generator which is needed for true unhanded split-deflection switches. The years have overtaken me. If that's what you want, it can be done, and has always been possible, using multiple partial templates.

It's possible that someone else may do such a re-write of the generator for Templot3 (the open-source version of Templot), but if so they are keeping very quiet about it.

Please try the method described in the above links. Ask again if it's not clear and I will try to make a bit of video (if I haven't already done so, sorry I can't remember).

edit: see the first half of this video:

    http://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=HsnZXmGuv1HmpYOmoQoaSQ2

    disregard the second half (make transition link) and use make simple link instead.

Or if you post your box file here, I will do it for you.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 4 Aug 2020 23:47

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Eve Wallis wrote:
I can get all sorts of turnout templates as a Templot novice, but not an equal (or unequal) Y point

Hi Eve,

The underlying problem, at least in the UK, is that a symmetrical Y-turnout is quite rare on the prototype. The traditional way in Templot was to leave it to experienced users to create one from a collection of partial templates, as they would for any other unusual prototype formation.

For less experienced users, a satisfactory result has always been possible by applying some contraflexure (negative curving radius) to an ordinary turnout. And quite often that was actually the correct prototypical result required (for example where one of the roads is a running line).

Over the years I wrote several posts explaining the above.

I then hit on the idea of using an irregular half-diamond template as the basis of a symmetrical Y-turnout, which I described here:

 topic 2768

and here:

 topic 3456 - message 27233

It is by no means perfect, but it's usable. More importantly, it reflects the fact that it is now very unlikely that I will ever be doing the complete re-write of the template generator which is needed for true unhanded split-deflection switches. The years have overtaken me. If that's what you want, it can be done, and has always been possible, using multiple partial templates.

It's possible that someone else may do such a re-write of the generator for Templot3 (the open-source version of Templot), but if so they are keeping very quiet about it.

Please try the method described in the above links. Ask again if it's not clear and I will try to make a bit of video (if I haven't already done so, sorry I can't remember).

edit: see the first half of this video:

    http://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=HsnZXmGuv1HmpYOmoQoaSQ2

    disregard the second half (make transition link) and use make simple link instead.

Or if you post your box file here, I will do it for you.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin, thanks for your help again.
I had already seen and printed out the links that you sent me, But hey I must be extra thick, Because they haven't helped me. I have downloaded the attachment that you sent to Chris, can this be converted to 00 gauge? I've also downloaded a copy of a PECO short Y point, but it only prints out as half a template along the centre line of the track.
This piece of trackwork isn't for myself, a close friend of mine who has just started to track build from DCC Concepts templates has asked me to try and provide one.
To be truthful anything beyond the beginner steps as shown in the 1st template video is beyond me at present. 

I'll try and post my Box File to you..............

In the mean time thanks for your help.

Kind Regards,

Eve Wallis
Last edited on 5 Aug 2020 00:13 by Eve Wallis
posted: 4 Aug 2020 23:48

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Hi Andrew,
Yes I tried that but it wasn't very satisfactory.

Cheers,

Eve
Andrew Barrowman wrote:
Not sure if it's the best method but you can CURVE a turnout (mouse action) to make it a Y.


posted: 4 Aug 2020 23:55

from:

roythebus
 
Aldington Frith, Ashford, Kent - United Kingdom

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I've made quite a sharp radius Y point for the folkestone club layout, it took a bit of doing, but from memory I made a normal straight point. Whichever way is the "main" road is the straight. If it's a right hand point, curve it left using the F button. This will give you the basics of the Y point. then change the crossing to "curviform". This may shorten the turnout a bit. you can then adjust the length and radius till your heart's content until it fits where you want.
Edited to add I've just tried this on a template to remind myself how to do it. Get the basic template with the turnout on it. By default this is left hand, experiment with a new template.

Click on F6 "curving". By moving the cursor up and down this will alter the curve of the turnout. Upwards will make the curve sharper, move the cursor down will change the curve in the opposite direction making what was the left curve on the main route a right curve. You can adjust this to fit your track plan.

You can change the crossing angle, the default is 1:6 to whatever you want by going to the toolbar at the to, press the one marked "Template", this will let you change the crossing angle. In a box on the right you will see V-crossing settings. Select curviform and this will change the V to curve on each road. You can then use F6 again to adjust the curvature until it fits as well as the length of the point.

By the way, are you trying to make this as a series of individual templates like Peco and other systems or as a complete layout? the better way is as a complete layout that way you know everything will fit. Don't forget to change the settings to whatever gauge you are using first!

I'm still finding my way round Templot despite having been using it on and off for about 12 years! I still haven't mastered it all yet. good luck

posted: 5 Aug 2020 00:04

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Thanks Rob, Way above my head sorry.
Cheers,

Eve

Rob Manchester wrote:
Hello Eve,

Too late at night to do much thinking but take a look at this forum post :-

topic 3456

It may help you.

Rob



posted: 5 Aug 2020 00:54

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Thanks Roy, I'll have a go at this tomorrow.Cheers,
Eve
roythebus wrote:
I've made quite a sharp radius Y point for the folkestone club layout, it took a bit of doing, but from memory I made a normal straight point. Whichever way is the "main" road is the straight. If it's a right hand point, curve it left using the F button. This will give you the basics of the Y point. then change the crossing to "curviform". This may shorten the turnout a bit. you can then adjust the length and radius till your heart's content until it fits where you want.
Edited to add I've just tried this on a template to remind myself how to do it. Get the basic template with the turnout on it. By default this is left hand, experiment with a new template.

Click on F6 "curving". By moving the cursor up and down this will alter the curve of the turnout. Upwards will make the curve sharper, move the cursor down will change the curve in the opposite direction making what was the left curve on the main route a right curve. You can adjust this to fit your track plan.

You can change the crossing angle, the default is 1:6 to whatever you want by going to the toolbar at the to, press the one marked "Template", this will let you change the crossing angle. In a box on the right you will see V-crossing settings. Select curviform and this will change the V to curve on each road. You can then use F6 again to adjust the curvature until it fits as well as the length of the point.

By the way, are you trying to make this as a series of individual templates like Peco and other systems or as a complete layout? the better way is as a complete layout that way you know everything will fit. Don't forget to change the settings to whatever gauge you are using first!

I'm still finding my way round Templot despite having been using it on and off for about 12 years! I still haven't mastered it all yet. good luck


posted: 5 Aug 2020 04:06

from:

Andrew Barrowman
 
USA

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Eve Wallis wrote:
Hi Andrew,
Yes I tried that but it wasn't very satisfactory.

Cheers,

Eve
Andrew Barrowman wrote:
Not sure if it's the best method but you can CURVE a turnout (mouse action) to make it a Y.

Why's that then?

posted: 5 Aug 2020 07:54

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Hi Andrew,
Because when I drag the turnout to form a Y,  the branching curve distorts into a reverse curve.

Cheers,

Eve

posted: 5 Aug 2020 08:07

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Good Morning Martin,
Yes, many thanks, I think I have it now, thanks to your helpful video.

All this helps me to use Templot in general for my own track work, not just for this Y point.

Kind Regards,

Eve

posted: 5 Aug 2020 12:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Eve Wallis wrote:
Because when I drag the turnout to form a Y,  the branching curve distorts into a reverse curve.

Hi Eve,

Change the V-crossing from regular to curviform. This is often needed with contraflexure (negative curving).

There is a full explanation of regular and curviform crossings in this video:

 http://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=pu2F-wveux5-EWGYuqPd3g2

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 5 Aug 2020 12:23

from:

Eve Wallis
 
Wexford - Ireland

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Martin you're a saint! Nice view of a cottage by the way!
Cheers,

Eve

posted: 5 Aug 2020 12:47

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Eve Wallis wrote:
Nice view of a cottage by the way!
Thanks Eve.

It's actually a church. :)

2_050741_580000000.jpg2_050741_580000000.jpg

At Hanley Childe:

 http://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/52.28407,-2.51451,17/pin

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 12 Aug 2020 20:59

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Eve,

Thanks for sending me your BOX file. :)

I've converted it to a symmetrical Y-turnout.

Bear in mind that this is 2 separate templates, so you need to group them together when moving them:

2_121558_020000000.png2_121558_020000000.png

BOX file attached below.

cheers,

Martin.
Attachment: attach_3126_3730_eve_y_symm_37_5.box     93



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