Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 6 Sep 2020 00:11 from: DerekStuart
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SOLVED: Trust me, I've tried. I've really tried. I'm trying to replicate the 1 in 10 scissor from the NERA book. It describes four C10s and from the overall length I have discovered these have no entry straight at all. The basics have been produced by taking a C10 and forming a crossover and then doing the same again for the other angle. So far so good. The book shows the 'centre' Vs as 1:6 and the Ks as 1:5. I have tried every combination I can think of with locating pegs and the notch and then snaking through, including putting the notch in the dead centre, on the intersections between turnout rails etc, even trying as both IR and IC diamonds, but nothing seems to work. Even as an experiment, I used four diamond 1:10 just to make sure it wasn't something odd with the curve of the turnout; using four diamond 1:10 with a centre 1:5 diamond should have worked fine (as an experiment) but it didn't. If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate it; believe me I have tried everything before admitting defeat and asking. Thanks Derek SOLVED: This is probably not the best way to do it, but I found that by splitting it into 8 parts: 4 C10G turnouts 2 1:6 Vs for each side 2 1:5 Ks for the centre There are still a couple of rough points, but it is sufficient for use. Derek |
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| Last edited on 6 Sep 2020 01:20 by DerekStuart |
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posted: 6 Sep 2020 08:32 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Derek, Basics for creating a type 1 scissors crossover are here: topic 3680 - message 29831 If you can't get the angles to match the prototype drawing, try changing to CLM unit angles. Also you must be using an exact-scale track gauge (P4, S7, etc). cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 6 Sep 2020 13:33 from: DerekStuart
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Hello Martin Many thanks for that. I did of course find that (and other) scissor related topics. Building a working scissor design in Templot isn't an issue. Building this LNER design is though. It doesn't matter which order you put the part templates in, they will never line up. The only way I've found to do it is 4 turnouts, 2 Ks and 2 vs; even then it's a little ragged in some places. I'm wondering if there are some notes that should go with that diagram, but have been lost in the past 89 years. For example if you use the method you outline and independently place both parts of the diamond then they overlap in the middle by about 1/4 of an inch. Changing to CLM made no difference, and this is in P4/S4 gauge. BTW I seem to remember a topic about changing RAM to CLM permanently on a trackpad, but I can't find it on any search- did I imagine that? Many thanks Derek |
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posted: 6 Sep 2020 14:51 from: DerekStuart
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I've tried it again. It still cannot be done using 4 turnouts and one diamond as per the LNER diagram, so I suspect my comment about further notes is correct. But using the idea of tacking on plain track as per the mentioned topic, though just snaking them through and forming an intersection, has worked fine for me, thank you. Separate V and K templates works better. Again, thanks. Derek |
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posted: 7 Sep 2020 03:54 from: Martin Wynne
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DerekStuart wrote: I've tried it again. It still cannot be done using 4 turnouts and one diamond as per the LNER diagram,Hi Derek, You have rather lost me there. What makes you think there is a single diamond? Did you remember to set: P4/S4 gauge CLM angles generic V-crossings for the turnouts I've had a dabble at it, and it matches the drawing in the NERA book almost exactly: 2_062228_220000000.png  BOX file below, 14 partial templates. Using CLM angles gives 1:5 CLM at the centre (CLM angles add and subtract almost exactly, 2 x 1:10 = 1:5). Templot calculates it at 1:4.99 CLM. The angle for the type 1 middle V-crossings is 1:6 CLM. Templot calculates it at 1:5.99 CLM. I had the advantage of the new find intersection function for that.  The two sides of those vees are done separately. To get the two sides to line up required the (blanked off) K-crossings to be 1:4.42 RAM. F10 to adjust. The diamond legs are split at the CESP positions on the turnouts, the centre part being straight, and the outer part curved to match the turnout curves. I'm not sure if this way of working is better or worse than my previous suggestion of overlaying short individual crossings on the underlying turnout rails. When I've got 227a released I will make a bit of video showing how to do this. Over to you to sort out the timbering. p.s. when you load the BOX file in 226f you will get a warning message about the later file, you can ignore it. cheers, Martin. |
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| Attachment: attach_3139_3757_derek_10_scissors.box 42 | |||
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posted: 7 Sep 2020 07:50 from: Hayfield
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Hours of fun there, starting off with tidying up the timbers | ||
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posted: 12 Sep 2020 23:30 from: DerekStuart
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Hello Martin That was really good of you to do that for me, thank you very much. That's above and beyond what I could have asked of you. 14 templates? That's where I was going wrong- I thought it should work with 4 C10s and one v5/k5 diamond.... then I got it sort-of right with splitting the centre vs and ks to get 8 templates. Thanks again, Martin. Derek |
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